Who is interested in the SR&RL and Maine 2 footers? Post here.
- Thread starter narrowgauge
- Start date
RE: Bingham/Caratunk area. The following is from the R. Jones book "Two FeetBetween The Rails", Volume 2, page 25. "Anothercompany was organized by a small group of men with the intent of buildinga road from Bigelow to Stratton. Of course it was widely known that theSR&RL had recently completed a second preliminary survey to thetown. The new organization, known as the Bingham & DeadRiver Railway company, hoped to secure permission to build the line ahead ofthe SR&RL. The petition was brought before the commissioners inMarch, (1909) and in a lively session --- the commission upheld theSR&RL". As such the B&DR was neverbuilt. However the SR&RL did extent their rails into theregion starting at Eustis Jct. and was known as theEustis Branch, and was about fifteen miles long. It served thelogging interests of the area, including such places as Green's Farm, DagoJunction, Berlin Mills, and Skunk Brook.
RE: CREAM CAR The following dimensions are from "Two Feet Between The Rails'. Note that these are "inside" dimensions, which was the normal way of presenting these numbers. This is for SR&RL #59, which prior to 1908 was numbered 21. Length: 27' 7", width 5' 7.5", height 6' 1". This car had some unique features: four truss rods; four roof walk end platforms; no automatic air brakes; large enddoors to load sawdust (which was used as insulation); and two ladders on each side. In "Freight Equipment of the SR&RL" by Peter Barney, there is a plan showing outside dimensions as: length 28' 10", width 6' 2", and height9 4" from top of rail to top of roof walk. This car is said to still be in existence at the Phillips Maine museum.
Note the number of this car was 59 not 56. Number 56 was a short freight car at 23' 8", and there is no indication that it was used as a Cream Car. There was a #19, which was shorter, and which is seen in one picture.
Note the number of this car was 59 not 56. Number 56 was a short freight car at 23' 8", and there is no indication that it was used as a Cream Car. There was a #19, which was shorter, and which is seen in one picture.
narrowgauge
92 year oldTrainz veteran
Lo Grant. I guess you found that the preload added the stakes to the flat cars. The same principle was used to add loads to the pulp racks,
BobbyT. Thanks for the information. The 56 was a typo, the actual car mesh has 59. About the cream car sizes. I have six of the Peter S Barney books including "Freight Equipment" and worked from the drawing on page 98. Where did you get those dimensions? The drawing shows no dimensions, the only reference is the 2 foot track outline. I make the scale to be 5 feet to the inch which makes the length scale out at 29'9" and the height at 9'9". I couldn't find any reference to the outside dimensions in the body of the book. Your figures seem to be closer than mine especially as it is classed as a 28ft car. I have just used dividers to step out the drawing and it shows that the scale I used is not actually correct. I'll go back and massage the mesh.
Regarding the doors, the photos seem to indicate there was only one door which actually was only a half height dropdown. If you look at page 75, the end shot shows the window with no evidence of an opening door. The shot at the top of page 78 shows the non-door end.
Peter
BobbyT. Thanks for the information. The 56 was a typo, the actual car mesh has 59. About the cream car sizes. I have six of the Peter S Barney books including "Freight Equipment" and worked from the drawing on page 98. Where did you get those dimensions? The drawing shows no dimensions, the only reference is the 2 foot track outline. I make the scale to be 5 feet to the inch which makes the length scale out at 29'9" and the height at 9'9". I couldn't find any reference to the outside dimensions in the body of the book. Your figures seem to be closer than mine especially as it is classed as a 28ft car. I have just used dividers to step out the drawing and it shows that the scale I used is not actually correct. I'll go back and massage the mesh.
Regarding the doors, the photos seem to indicate there was only one door which actually was only a half height dropdown. If you look at page 75, the end shot shows the window with no evidence of an opening door. The shot at the top of page 78 shows the non-door end.
Peter
RE: Cream Car Good call on the end door, I did not notice it before! The Phillips museum has restored this car, and there are color pictures on their web site www.srrl-rr.org. I too used the Barney plan, with the track width as a reference. I guess it's a matter of how accurate our calculations are. I was going to build an On2 model of it, but have not yet got around to it.
Peter,
I seem to be answering my own questions as soon as I post them.
However, I was looking for a staked flat car that can also take on a log load between the stakes as it would appear in reality. Also, the Preload for the 33ft flatcar is putting the stakes about 2 feet above the bed of the car. Needs to be repositioned lower, I think. BobbyT
RE: Bingham/Caratunk area. The following is from the R. Jones book "Two FeetBetween The Rails", Volume 2, page 25. "Anothercompany was organized by a small group of men with the intent of buildinga road from Bigelow to Stratton. Of course it was widely known that theSR&RL had recently completed a second preliminary survey to thetown. The new organization, known as the Bingham & DeadRiver Railway company, hoped to secure permission to build the line ahead ofthe SR&RL. The petition was brought before the commissioners inMarch, (1909) and in a lively session --- the commission upheld theSR&RL". As such the B&DR was neverbuilt. However the SR&RL did extent their rails into theregion starting at Eustis Jct. and was known as theEustis Branch, and was about fifteen miles long. It served thelogging interests of the area, including such places as Green's Farm, DagoJunction, Berlin Mills, and Skunk Brook.
I don't believe this is the one I'm thinking about. The one I want was indeed built and used to run up through the woods to The Forks, north of Bingham or maybe it ran south from The Forks. I do know that it ran alongside Moxie Lake. The road bed is still there and much of it is an auto road now and there was a spur to Austin Pond. I'm not even 100% sure it was a narrow gauge, just that it was at least partially a logging route. Eustis and Bigelow are to the the west of Bingham.
Lo
Last edited:
RE: Bingham RR. Go to http://docs.unh.edu to see maps of New England from the early 1900's. Index the Town and then open the map. For The Forks township, dated 1907 reprinted 1937 , the map shows the Maine Central RR serving this area. It ran down the west side of what later maps call Moxie Lake. The 1907 map shows this lake as Black Narrows. Going to the 1956 map of the same area, the railroad is not shown, which means it was torn up some time previous to 1956. If the abandonment had been closer to 1956 the map might have shown the abandoned ROW. The Maine Central was a standard gauge RR.
Go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/somerset_railroad_(Maine) to see an extensive history of theSomerset RR that came before the Maine Central. The following is from that site. "The Somerset Railroad was built to serve Kennebec River communities and later extended through timberlands to a large wooden Victorian era destination hotel on MooseheadLake. The railway became part of the Maine Central Railroad in 1911; and a portion remains in intermittent operation by Pan Am Railways." The site also says that this branch of the MC was called the Kineo Branch in 1911. The site has a lot more to see.
Isn't history exciting!!!
Go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/somerset_railroad_(Maine) to see an extensive history of theSomerset RR that came before the Maine Central. The following is from that site. "The Somerset Railroad was built to serve Kennebec River communities and later extended through timberlands to a large wooden Victorian era destination hotel on MooseheadLake. The railway became part of the Maine Central Railroad in 1911; and a portion remains in intermittent operation by Pan Am Railways." The site also says that this branch of the MC was called the Kineo Branch in 1911. The site has a lot more to see.
Isn't history exciting!!!
RE: CREAM CAR After reading your post, I went back to the Barney drawing. I scanned it into Blender as a background image, set the dimensions of a cube to four feet, and overlaid the cube on the wheel axel center points. Then created new cubes and set their dimensions to just cover the height, width, and length of the image. The width and height agreed with my previous dimensions. My length is off for an over the ends measurement, however the 28'10" figure appears to be correct for end to end of the trim under the roof edge. I think that many of these scale drawings are not always exact, and the width of an ink line can vary, and cause the serious modeler grief and frustration. I have also read that some drawing authors would induce errors to see if anyone was copying them. Also note that the Barney drawing was part of an On2 model kit sold by the Sandy River Car Shops, with precut pieces, and as such was meant more as a guide for the modeler. Another note is that what the drawing shows as the center point is off by a couple of inches. Ah the joys of researching these items!
Given all the fantastic TRAINZ SR&RL content you and others have developed, I need to get my butt in gear and upgrade to TS12, so that I can take advantage of all that's available.
Given all the fantastic TRAINZ SR&RL content you and others have developed, I need to get my butt in gear and upgrade to TS12, so that I can take advantage of all that's available.
narrowgauge
92 year oldTrainz veteran
BobbyT
It is nice to get things right but in the end, slight errors can not be seen or measured in Trainz. I have corrected the mesh and have been trying to get a red texture closer to the one used by the SR&RL museum. That is a work in progress.
Lo
There is a 33ft staked flat already made, it may not have been included in the DLS download, I will check and post a link to the upload. Do you want a 28ft ready staked? I think that is there as well. They both started as staked flats, anyway. Interestingly, the stake preload for the 33ft car does not work for me, the 28ft does. Funny
Anything else you will need loggingwise? Way back in Trainz history I made a bunch of 3ft logging stuff, it is all on Trainzone.
http://www.trainzone.co.nz.
I may be able to rework some of that ancient stuff to 2 ft gauge. Let me know.
Peter
It is nice to get things right but in the end, slight errors can not be seen or measured in Trainz. I have corrected the mesh and have been trying to get a red texture closer to the one used by the SR&RL museum. That is a work in progress.
Lo
There is a 33ft staked flat already made, it may not have been included in the DLS download, I will check and post a link to the upload. Do you want a 28ft ready staked? I think that is there as well. They both started as staked flats, anyway. Interestingly, the stake preload for the 33ft car does not work for me, the 28ft does. Funny
Anything else you will need loggingwise? Way back in Trainz history I made a bunch of 3ft logging stuff, it is all on Trainzone.
http://www.trainzone.co.nz.
I may be able to rework some of that ancient stuff to 2 ft gauge. Let me know.
Peter
narrowgauge
92 year oldTrainz veteran
Lo
I'm having problems finding the original meshes for the 33ft stakes, and the 33ft mesh itself has hidden somewhere. I can re-create them both but it may take a couple of days.
What I did find are 2ft bogies and the Gmax files for the logging stuff if you are interested.
Peter
I'm having problems finding the original meshes for the 33ft stakes, and the 33ft mesh itself has hidden somewhere. I can re-create them both but it may take a couple of days.
What I did find are 2ft bogies and the Gmax files for the logging stuff if you are interested.
Peter
Hey Folks, I've been gone for probably close to a year now. I thought I'd stick my head in a found this thread. One reason I began loosing interest was it seemed US narrow gauge was about dead here. Now it appears it's been over a month since the last post on this thread. Anyway, good to see some of the familar names again.
narrowgauge
92 year oldTrainz veteran
Rick
Narrow gauge is still alive, possibly not as active as it once was. I have theory that a lot of new Trainz members are comparatively young and have not been exposed to the history of narrow gauge in it's many forms, places and gauges. To them it is a new game, to the older ones it becomes a hobby.
Anyway, I'm glad you posted, welcome back, there a new things in Trainz future.
I'm also glad because you reminded me that I had some unfinished business relating to the SR&RL 33ft flat car stakes.
Peter
Narrow gauge is still alive, possibly not as active as it once was. I have theory that a lot of new Trainz members are comparatively young and have not been exposed to the history of narrow gauge in it's many forms, places and gauges. To them it is a new game, to the older ones it becomes a hobby.
Anyway, I'm glad you posted, welcome back, there a new things in Trainz future.
I'm also glad because you reminded me that I had some unfinished business relating to the SR&RL 33ft flat car stakes.
Peter
Thanks Peter,
Yeah, the 100 mph big stuff holds very little interest with me.
I got hopefully when I saw you started this thread. I thought maybe you were spear heading a Sandy River project much like the DHR. For a project like that, I would have even shelved my beloved '04 and reinstalled '10. I saw you even had Rich's attention for a brief time.
BTW, wouldn't the SR make a grand full blown project? Hint?...Nah...No hint at all...LOL
Yeah, the 100 mph big stuff holds very little interest with me.
I got hopefully when I saw you started this thread. I thought maybe you were spear heading a Sandy River project much like the DHR. For a project like that, I would have even shelved my beloved '04 and reinstalled '10. I saw you even had Rich's attention for a brief time.
BTW, wouldn't the SR make a grand full blown project? Hint?...Nah...No hint at all...LOL
Last edited:
narrowgauge
92 year oldTrainz veteran
Rick.
In a way the DHR was special. When Bill and started it we had a lot of information available, both in print and on DVD which meant that the wonderful crew who came on board could see the actual line and surrounding scenery. It was a three year labour of love.
Bill is having a rest from Trainz and I'm beginning to slow down. You need someone who knows the line and it's history, and especially knows the country. I am not sure that I could last another three years, at 85 years old, I tend to avoid any long term commitments but I would be happy to get involved making scenic items and any changes to rolling stock. I can also offer hosting space that can be used on a group basis.
I'm not saying that you should take the project on, that s up to you, but you can make the first move. This thread and the previous probably contains all those interested in the SR&RL, send them all a PM and see what you can stir up.
Peter
In a way the DHR was special. When Bill and started it we had a lot of information available, both in print and on DVD which meant that the wonderful crew who came on board could see the actual line and surrounding scenery. It was a three year labour of love.
Bill is having a rest from Trainz and I'm beginning to slow down. You need someone who knows the line and it's history, and especially knows the country. I am not sure that I could last another three years, at 85 years old, I tend to avoid any long term commitments but I would be happy to get involved making scenic items and any changes to rolling stock. I can also offer hosting space that can be used on a group basis.
I'm not saying that you should take the project on, that s up to you, but you can make the first move. This thread and the previous probably contains all those interested in the SR&RL, send them all a PM and see what you can stir up.
Peter
The fact is Peter there are so many of these lines that deserve such attention. My favorites would be:
The Maine 2 footers, of course, due to their uniqueness.
The EBT, 3 hours frown my house. Local interest. This makes them the ideal candidate for modeling although not the most interesting
Ely Thomas Lumber, My dad and I actually had the opportunity to tour the operating mill and ride their shay for a copy hours while shifting cars in the yard. I just wish I was a little older to have really appreciated it more.
My all time heart throb: The West Side Lumber. I'm not even sure why or when the WS became an infatuation with me. I think this would have to be my DHR. Like you with the DHR, I have every book and DVD ever produced on the WS. The problem is, as I'm sure Rich has found out, it's a HUGE undertaking.
The Maine 2 footers, of course, due to their uniqueness.
The EBT, 3 hours frown my house. Local interest. This makes them the ideal candidate for modeling although not the most interesting
Ely Thomas Lumber, My dad and I actually had the opportunity to tour the operating mill and ride their shay for a copy hours while shifting cars in the yard. I just wish I was a little older to have really appreciated it more.
My all time heart throb: The West Side Lumber. I'm not even sure why or when the WS became an infatuation with me. I think this would have to be my DHR. Like you with the DHR, I have every book and DVD ever produced on the WS. The problem is, as I'm sure Rich has found out, it's a HUGE undertaking.
narrowgauge
92 year oldTrainz veteran
Rick
The EBT is already under active development, there are threads on the subject.
Westside Lumber. This was a going project at one time but I have no idea where it is now. I was interested and slightly involved in logging content several years back hence the logging stuff on Trainzone, and the Climax, but now it does not really have any appeal. It is a case of been-there-done-that.
I must confess to be rather one-eyed in my approach to Trainz, I have no interest in route making, I only run in the game to check my content and then I use DCC, my interest lies in making rolling stock and locos. Making scenery items doesn't have much appeal but possibly given sufficient details, drawings, and photos, I could be interested.
Peter
The EBT is already under active development, there are threads on the subject.
Westside Lumber. This was a going project at one time but I have no idea where it is now. I was interested and slightly involved in logging content several years back hence the logging stuff on Trainzone, and the Climax, but now it does not really have any appeal. It is a case of been-there-done-that.
I must confess to be rather one-eyed in my approach to Trainz, I have no interest in route making, I only run in the game to check my content and then I use DCC, my interest lies in making rolling stock and locos. Making scenery items doesn't have much appeal but possibly given sufficient details, drawings, and photos, I could be interested.
Peter
Well Peter,
Many of us aren't so different, we're just different. I've never actual ran a route I've built other then to check for functionality. To me, they've always been huge diorama's. Like you, when I do run something, it's in DCC mode checking for clearances and kinked track.
I think it's petty safe to say Linda goes to the same church. She got me started making static structures. (which, BTW, I only enjoy to a point). But she's told me many times she doesn't run trains. She enjoys building.
When it comes to "hands on" model railroading, my dad builds beautiful 2ft rolling stock and small locomotives using G gauge track. It's an oddball scale but he doesn't care because he has no interest in running them. His enjoyment is stick building, board for board as the prototype.
As far as your age? Your only as old as you feel, and judging by even your recent accomplishments, you must be younger then me...LOL
Many of us aren't so different, we're just different. I've never actual ran a route I've built other then to check for functionality. To me, they've always been huge diorama's. Like you, when I do run something, it's in DCC mode checking for clearances and kinked track.
I think it's petty safe to say Linda goes to the same church. She got me started making static structures. (which, BTW, I only enjoy to a point). But she's told me many times she doesn't run trains. She enjoys building.
When it comes to "hands on" model railroading, my dad builds beautiful 2ft rolling stock and small locomotives using G gauge track. It's an oddball scale but he doesn't care because he has no interest in running them. His enjoyment is stick building, board for board as the prototype.
As far as your age? Your only as old as you feel, and judging by even your recent accomplishments, you must be younger then me...LOL
narrowgauge
92 year oldTrainz veteran
I have updated the 33ft flat car so that the stake pre-load actually works correctly. I have also re-arranged the configs so that the preload appears above the load. The DLS has all the files and probably one day you will see them appear in CM. Note that the new files consist of the two flat cars with preloads and the mesh library.
Peter
Peter