White Plains railfan VS Police

[evan123]

Although a 16 year old (presumably) Caucasian teenager with a camera in / around railroad tracks on / off railroad property can be viewed as suspicious by anyone. Both federal law enforcement / rail police have to react to trespassers or "suspicious activity" with just as high of a level of reaction than any number of other occurrences. Quite frankly I'm glad they were hard on the kid, it's fine for people to take pictures of trains at crossing @ grade or whatever but if you're lurking in/around the tracks that close as he says he was it's sketchy for the crew on board, other railroad personnel, or the general public. What if a shift-able load looses it's load near the crossing and 70ft steel pipes come barreling down and kills him? Or what if theres a derailment at the crossing that squishes him? Just take your pictures from a distance off RR property, even if you aren't directly on RR property the feds always like to nit at people for being near it.

 

[Red_Rattler]

Something is not adding up & questionable video

Hi Everybody.
I can only assume that Red Rattler is making the point that the organization responsible for the railway development are giving out information that could be useful to terrorists organizations or others trying to access the railway.

Nope. I was trying to say, that if photographing trains was illegal, then how come the train company has videos/photographs of their trains. And if I searched correctly, they may have had competitions about photographing their trains.

Which brings me to the next point. We are not sure exactly where this person (who claims he was 16), as he only uses pictures from a map website. If his phone was STILL on, as he claimed, then why didn't he upload the video from his mobile phone? He does have arrows claiming where he was at the level crossing. If correct, going from the arrows where he claimed (once again) he was, but their is no proof, not unless the police have some video footage, or video from his own phone from the overtop view looking down at the barrier, then he MAY have been (not that he was) just inside the rail property.

Edit:

Although a 16 year old (presumably) Caucasian teenager with a camera in / around railroad tracks on

So you immediately assume he is white? And also why bring it up? Know one knows what he looks like.

And that may bring up this point. How do we know that this may not be a set up by him, with some of his friends pretending to be policemen, especially on that video site. I'm not saying it was.

 

[wholbr]

Hi pfx,evan And Everyone

If only it were so trivial Bill.

Fortunately, it was merely a 'recreational' riot a few hundred yards from my house.

of course I very much realize pfx that the situation in Northern Ireland is very much different to the rest of the UK. I also agree that we cannot live in a state of paranoia fearing to move or carry out our everyday lives due to the threat of terrorism.

However, I am supporter of increased vigilance and security activity throughout the public transport systems if only not the present those with ill intent with an easy target. Everyone realizes who travels by air, rail or even bus or coach that you cannot have 100% security and nobody I feel would wish that through the restrictions it would entail.

Therefore there has to be a balance between living as much as possible a restriction free life and accepting on the other hand there are rules and restrictions for all of our good which have to be implemented.

That is why I was saying ( probably not in a clear manner) that rail enthusiasts have also to realize the above, in that they cannot just have unrestricted access to the railways for their photos and other experiences which the want to gain. As evan advises take your photos from a safe distance and in a manner that cannot be misinterpreted by others whose job which is to maintain the safety and security of our railways and other transport infrastructure.

Bill
NB:-nice to be back on the forums if only for a day. I've been advertising for six weeks now for someone to work alongside of me and cannot find anyone to fit the bill even though it would be a fairly lucrative position. So much for 2 million unemployed.

 

[Red_Rattler]

Further to my previous post, the Facebook page that the original poster linked to, we don't know what it states, as you need to log in.

 

[pfx]

So much for 2 million unemployed.

But Bill, we all know there are no jobs out there!!! Ahem.

 

[wholbr]

Further to my previous post, the Facebook page that the original poster linked to, we don't know what it states, as you need to log in.

Two up their, i thought it was just me and everybody else had passwords.

Bill

 

[wholbr]

But Bill, we all know there are no jobs out there!!! Ahem.

I got one somebody can have, oh please, oh please, give it a go. there must be someone out there who is just half intelligent who could do the job. I want to get back to at least semi-retirement

Bill.

 

[pfx]

I got one somebody can have, oh please, oh please, give it a go. there must be someone out there who is just half intelligent who could do the job. I want to get back to at least semi-retirement

Bill.

Pay for my commute and I'll do it. I have an IQ of 180 and can drink 20 pints of beer without even falling over or taking a leak...

 

[Red_Rattler]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbpk9dm8dLo

Take a look at this, it maybe of some interest as well, its not as extreme as the OPs post but its still worth while to watch.

You can't really compare that video with the video in the original posters post.

 

[klambert]

You can't really compare that video with the video in the original posters post.

But at least it was a video and the audio wasnt as bad as the last one.

 

[wholbr]

Hi Again Everybody

You can't really compare that video with the video in the original posters post.

from watching the video you quote red rattler quite frankly I believe it is the persons taking the photographs which need training, and training in common sense and civility.

We all know that the 7/7 bombers carried out surveillance of the London underground prior to their attack using video and photographs gained that way in their planning. Therefore if you are asked not to take photographs on the underground stations common sense should tell you to abide by the rules.

All traveling on the London underground today are under threat of further attacks and the regulations are set in place for the best protection of all especially the staff who work with this threat for a minimum of eight hours every working day.

You are asked to do not take photographs of the staff on the underground to protect their own anonymity for obvious reasons. However, I have witnessed tourists ask the staff if they can take a photograph and permission has always been granted. Indeed my own experience of regularly traveling on the Northern, Central, Circle and District lines are that the staff are most helpful and obliging especially when there are delays and problems.

The so-called "rail fans" in the video represent everything that brings the genuine hobbyist and rail enthusiast to be cast in a bad light by the rail authorities and therefore bringing increased restrictions on everyone.

These people have not one syllable of common sense, and should be banned from the entire rail network for life. I hope everyone on this forum would also condemn these brain-dead individuals who looked like they wished for nothing else but to cause the staff problems and capture it on video.

From a disgusted
Bill

NB:- on a lighter note I would gladly welcome you pfx to work alongside of me. I can just imagine us compiling accident investigation reports on an evening after a few pints of cider, a couple of glasses of wine and a Contreu and Brandy to make sure we got the wording right.

 

[GS41995]

I have a Citzen for Rail Saftey card which states, 1. Do not take photography of military trains and equipment. 2. Only takes photographs or view trains from public locations. 3. When taking photo's from public railroad crossings, stay at least 15ft away from the nearest rail. This rul applies for staged "photo run-bys as well. 4. Cooperate fully with railroad police or other law enforcement officers when contacted. 5. If suspicious activites are noted, report it to railroad or local law enforcement officers. Do not take any futher action. The kid in question met all requirments from my digging into the case. The only that can't be clarifed is the 15ft which stated he was around 15ft away from the tracks. You can also check MTA laws which said similar things.
http://www.mta.info/nyct/rules/rules.htm
The railfan was 16 and had made stops here when railfanning and other places on MTA's network. What irks me was how the officers denied thie kid at least a call to his mom and intimadated him when questionong. The 4th responding officer told a lie that said he was messing with something on the tracks, but the kid was actually audio recording the train as it passed the crossing with his phone. He was back away from the tracks and the officer that told that lie was 4th on scene not the 1st.

 

[NickyVeee]

Like I said in my original post, just because you haven't gotten caught doesn't mean you're not breaking rules/laws. From what I read/hear, railroad personnel called it in, so maybe he was doing something he shouldn't have been doing.

As far as the phone call thing, unless you're being arrested I believe that you don't get a phone call until you're released or until they take you to jail. If they're just cuffing you, the officers will call your parent or guardian to have them come pick you up after they file out paperwork. They didn't find anything "suspicious", so it's likely that they didn't find a probable cause to actually take him to jail.

The same thing happened to me when I was witnessing a fight at a nightclub. Because I was the friend of someone involved in the fight, I was claimed to be an accomplice, and was cuffed and placed on the sidewalk. When they realized I wasn't at fault for any crime, nor did they have any probable cause to take me to jail, they released me right there on-scene. And because I was over 18, I didn't need a parent or guardian to come pick me up.

It's standard procedure to cuff someone and place them on the sidewalk or in a patrol car, even if they're not arresting you. They want to make sure that you're not going to take off, or if you do you'll have limited mobility and use of your arms. I'm not saying that this kid was going to run off and evade police, but cops don't know that.

By the way let's keep race out of this, that does nothing but stir up arguments, etc.

 

[GS41995]

My question why didn't they allow him to call his guardian. The cops though did seem like they were a bit aggresive toward him. A simple line of questioning without a tone proabably would have worked. Your right, cuffing is a standard procedure. I also wonder why exactly in the begining he was closer to the tracks and then got around 15ft awya from the track. In these cases it's hard to say who's at fault or if their both at fault. I choose the latter of the options.

 

[sawyer811]

Personally, you have to look at it from the kid's perspective as well as the cop's. From the cop's perspective, they can only go on what they were told, that someone was near the tracks holding something. That sets off alarm bells all over the place. Now, from the kid's perspective, he's just out there filming trains and recording sounds for his own enjoyment. Yes, he may have been close to the tracks, but let's be honest, how many of us have stood close to the tracks while railfanning? We know the rules, we know the physics, and we know how close we can safely get.

Now, cops show up, and they're instantly thinking terrorist, so yes they're going to be a bit on guard. But they're dealing with a 16 year old kid who's just had five different police departments pull up on him. he's obviously scared out of his mind. And facts and ideas don't form correctly when you're staring down five different cops, in handcuffs, and all you were doing was just enjoying a hobby. They were going too far, that's for sure. As a minor, they technically can't cuff him, and they have to call his parents. at least that's how it is here in Missouri. Like i said before, cops hear what they want to hear, so all they're getting is he was "on the tracks" doing something. They were browbeating him to a degree.

The best thing to do would have been to just tell them, "I was railfanning, i was on the tracks so i could put something to get a recording of the train, I'm sorry." But as i said, he's probably not even thinking in complete thoughts, let alone saying them. How would you feel if all those officers came up on you?

Just a thought, commonly called "My 2 Cents."

 

[GS41995]

That proabably the best way to some it up, thanks dude.

 

[rjhowie]

I know dumb policemen can be found anywhere but doesn't the police service over in the States have a tradition of over the top and aggressive tones? Maybe watching too much Hollywood?! Several diferent police forces is well within the over-the-top attitude and they think they are the lawiinstead of officering it.

 

[RRSignal]

I know dumb policemen can be found anywhere but doesn't the police service over in the States have a tradition of over the top and aggressive tones? Maybe watching too much Hollywood?! Several diferent police forces is well within the over-the-top attitude and they think they are the lawiinstead of officering it.

More government workers and officials in general have that attitude. Not all of them, but a lot are on a power trip.

That said, I have a lot of cop friends. Most are decent people, and don't overstep their bounds very often and usually not in a severe manner.

 

[pfx]

NB:- on a lighter note I would gladly welcome you pfx to work alongside of me. I can just imagine us compiling accident investigation reports on an evening after a few pints of cider, a couple of glasses of wine and a Contreu and Brandy to make sure we got the wording right.

You disappoint me Bill. You of all people should know that cider and accident reports don't mix!

 

[pommie]

Enough already with the "just a kid" at sixteen he is not a kid, in some places he is old enough to drive.

Besides that do a google for "child bomber", one as young as nine

Why didn't he upload some of his photo's, they would prove how far away he was ..... or was not.

Cheers David