White Plains railfan VS Police

pommie said:
They held you for 15 minutes, then let you go, that would be about the right amount of time for that many officers to thoroughly search the area, the search also explains the amount of officers present, the line was closed and they would under pressure to get it open again, while I agree that officer could of been a lot calmer I don't think he was overly threatening, and for you to win a lawsuit he would have to threaten, deride or slander you a lot more than he did.

Sure he scared the poop out of you, that was his intent, he didn't want you to hurt him, or you make him hurt you, so he keeps you mentally off balance, you were not hurt, other than your pride and dignity.

What you are doing on youtube (and intend doing more) is trying to raise a mob against the police and that is not going to help you when defending yourself against the charges, and that should be your first and only concern.

You have a letter of permission from the railroad customer service so all you have to do is prove you were a safe distance from the tracks, so stay calm and wait until after the case to lodge a formal complaint, and maybe a lawsuit, against that officer, and once again a campaign on youtube to rally people onto your side will not help, it might even result in that officer taking legal action against you for harassment, and as you have already made multiple public statements against his character, and intend making more, he has a good chance of winning.
I hope and expect that the court will not rule against you, stay cool :cool:

Cheers David
Click to expand...

I was held for TWO hours then transported in handcuffs to MTA PD's HQ in Mt Vernon. The cuffs came off finally in the holding cell.
 
There is a "Photographers Right", but it can be stomped on by overzellous cops and Railways. In light of the fear of "Terror", your rights have been all but taken away.

I was at the Altoona Model RR Club and I noticed a beautiful bolder strew rock garden across the street ... so I snapped a few photos. The homeowner came stomping across the road (a 200' distance on public property) and demanded why I was taking photos of is home ! I explianed the it was a beautul garden work, worthy of Home and Gardens magazine. He was pissed ... I deleted the photo's right in front of him, and showed him that I deleted them. He was still TO'ed to the max. (He owns the land that the City leases out to the Community Services Ballfield and Model RR Club for $ 1 per year, and told me all about his "heated legal" beef with the Model RR Club.

Finally I told him to "FO into a rolling doughnut", and I walked away, (as he was a Redneck not capable of human communication).

Watch what you take photos of ... you have no automatic "Rights".
 
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It doesn't neccessary follow that there is more than being said. In some countries the police act as if they are the law and not the upholders of it. Too keen to swing truncheons about or act less than they should to the public. Not everyone who takes an obligation keeps up the requirements automatically. I was brought up to respect those in authority and still essentially do but I am not so naive either.
 
If it is naive to think that being held for over two hours, and being transported to HQ is to much for a simple trespass then I am naive.
I/we have only one side of the story to go on, and thats from someone who believes in trial by media, and then gets upset when not everyone agrees with him ??
He posted these accusations on the net, why, did he really expect everybody to agree with him, without hearing both sides, sorry but when you throw something out on the net, you have to put up with opinions that do not agree with yours, anything else is immature.

Cheers David
 
Hi Everybody.
Surely what everybody has to realize is that 9/11 in the US and 7/7 in the UK changed everything is far as security is concerned in transport.

With rail the position has been further charged by the increase in passenger numbers with the corresponding increase in train movements. Any mainline station such as Paddington London is a security nightmare with large amounts of luggage etc being put down by the thousands of passengers arriving has they look at the destination boards or obtain tickets. The stations have heavily armed police present almost continuously these days which should make everyone aware just how seriously security is taken.

Therefore, surely any genuine railfan will realize you cannot just access stations, lines or any other railway property without authorization or being known to the staff at the site. If you do in any way act without authorization or suspiciously then expect to be at least questioned “forcefully” about your actions and further, may well find yourself detained while you're answers to the questions are checked out.

All it takes is common sense, self-discipline and responsibility. If you work with the system rather than against it you will still get your pictures and experiences. As for the lad in the United States who got detained, as posted earlier in the thread we only have one side of the story with the possibility that more could be told from the other side at some point.

Yes, be a genuine railfan, not an idiot or you may be treated as an one or as someone far worse



Bill
 
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Much in what you say wholbr I can agree with but I don't think you are liable to have here in GB what happened across the pond. All those police, handcuffed and so on into a cell?

I was away last week out of Scotland elsewhere in the Kingdom for my third visit in my present project building the whole of one rail company system elsewhere in the UK and I had nothing but excellent co-operation from station managers, staff, etc. One staff member on a route recognised me from my previous visit some time back and actually enquired how I was getting on with my Trainz effort. Even told me it was posssible to get a visit to the company's actual train simulator building for training staff (!). Told them who I was and what I was doing (had my passport for ID in case I needed to prove anything. At one important and particular station the person in charge couldn't have been more helpful going out his way to assist with a query.
 
On the back of rjhowie's post, I suspect the place he was in was the north of Ireland. There has been a hightened security threat here for many months now, not that there isn't always a high level of threat, and the cross border train is frequently stopped due to bomb alerts on or around the line (I'm hoping rj hasn't yet experienced that one!) yet we all seem to manage to use trains and enthusiasts photograph and video trains and I'm yet to hear of any being mobbed by the PSNI.

For those who are not familiar with policing here, unlike police in the UK and Republic, the PSNI are armed, travel in bullet proof cars or armoured Landrovers, yet are very friendly despite being a prime target of dissidents. Several officers have been the target of bomb attacks in the last few years, one being killed and another severely injured. Okay, so it's what we would call 'quiet' times here at the moment so please don't let me put you off paying a visit : )

While I can't comment with any certainty on this incident, it would be nice to think that police forces in other parts of the world could act with the same attitude as those here do, despite the daily and very real threat to their lives.

Is it not about time this thread was put to sleep? It's been discussed to death if you'll pardon the pun.
 
Pfx is right about where I was describing.

I ran boys camps across to N.I right through the really bad times of "The Troubles" and up to 2001 and we never seen a pick of bother where we stayed. It was the same with personal holidays in the Province. Publicity only covers the bad. Yet for all the bad times history the one place I was actually approached by a station manager and one of his staff was over the Border! I found that quite funny but they were great once I explained the photographing of his station layout. On my last visit last week actually, I got into a chat with the police as there had been a temporary stramash in a small part of Belfast and they were very friendly as I have always found them to be over the water. The place is very popular with tourists with so many hotels there nowadays. Indeed I would recommend it even though there are some cave dweller mental midgets still trying to stir things up.

However I do think that the level of the police involved over the pond is something that is of concern and the attitude seems vastly different and more confrontational. However I am in danger of contradiction because pfx maybe has a point that this thread is running out of steam! I will leave it and get back to building the whole of the N. Ireland Railway Company!
 
Hi pfx, rjhowie And Everyone.
I think you are both right pfx, rjhowie in advising that across the pond the police and other authorities seem to be much stronger in their approach to suspects. It must go back to the old wild West days (That should draw some comments from our US members)

Over here the youngster would have got the old "looking down police stare" and that deep voice questioning that our best officers always seem to have.

Anyway I agree with you both that it is time to put this thread to bed as I have stated the same thing four times on different pages. By the way my posting in a different thread going up on the train to London yesterday morning seem to start one hell of a row and the thread is now closed. Hope it does not happen with this one.

Bill:D

Posted from HST 130 returning from London Paddington using Samsung galaxy tab with nuance for android and G3. (I like this being able to post from train as you can think up all sorts of mischief making as you ride along
:hehe:
 
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wholbr said:
Hi pfx, rjhowie And Everyone.
I think you are both right pfx, rjhowie in advising that across the pond the police and other authorities seem to be much stronger in their approach to suspects. It must go back to the old wild West days (That should draw some comments from our US members)

Over here the youngster would have got the old "looking down police stare" and that deep voice questioning that our best officers always seem to have.

Anyway I agree with you both that it is time to put this thread to bed as I have stated the same thing four times on different pages. By the way my posting in a different thread going up on the train to London yesterday morning seem to start one hell of a row and the thread is now closed. Hope it does not happen with this one.

Bill:D

Posted from HST 130 returning from London Paddington using Samsung galaxy tab with nuance for android and G3. (I like this being able to post from train as you can think up all sorts of mischief making as you ride along
:hehe:
Click to expand...

The cops are the same way in the Wild, wild East too, Bill! Remember A lot of these guys have to put up with a lot of &*() during their shifts.

Yes, the police get over zealous in some situations like dogs in a pack. It has something to do with an adrenaline rush during a pumped up situation, and the pack animal efffect. I actually saw a film on this in a psychology class a couple of years ago. It was very interesting how the human-animal is much more like an animal in many ways.

The other problem too with railfans isn't that they are all out taking photos. There are some that take the fan and turn it back into a fanatic, where the root of the word came from. They will go as far as to tamper with signal equipment, climb on railcars, and do many things because they "know how". Unfortunately it's these people that cause the problems, and not someone taking pictures.

Now regarding the post by the OP. There is his side, the police officers' side, and the real side. Sadly we're only seeing one of the views, and my gut feelings, like David's is we're not getting the full picture.

If I had ever done anything like this when I was younger, my mom would have killed me with her "look"!

John
 
Ho-Ho-Kus has police that really don't care if someone is railfanning. I think because they've seen huge groups filming and taking pictures of trains.

Gladstone's Police is ok. Just once this police officer was sitting behind me and my friend when we were looking for a train for a long time (turn out to be an F40PH-2CAT, a rare treat on this line :D)

In Morrisville, when I was waiting for the SEPTA Comet 1's (turned out I was on the wrong line didn't even SEE C2's) some police officers actually waved at me! Which is good, because then they didn't think I was a terrorist.

Montclair just looks at you like you have three heads.
 
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