White Plains railfan VS Police

Bloody ridiculous. Heavy handed and completely confrontational. Do you have to pass an exam to be that much of a f***wit?
 
It was bad enough months ago, but since the recent Iowa incident, Federal RR & Local Police, and RR Companies are beefing up security alot.

In my opinion the close up, low angle, head on photographs and videos of trains are lackluster, and alarms train operators, and warrants witness's to will call in a police report of a suspicious person crouching near the tracks ... you get a much better POV from a distance of 200' or greater, or from an elevated public property.

If standing on a bridge obstructs traffic or pedestrian thoroughfare, the police can ask you to leave also ... especially if someone calls in and reports a suspicious individual near the tracks, or acting suspiciously: on public property.

Most RR right of way extends 50' to 100' from the tracks, and access roads and highways are not public property for loitering, or vagrancy.

There is a law that prevents parking within 200' of a RR crossing, and also applys to standing railfans who gather to loiter (as a railfan with a camera, using it as a trespassing ticket as a "get out of jail free card") within in the 200' area limit.
 
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What irks everyone off is how the authoritys handled the 16 year old railfan, also read his description in the video. It was the itmidation the officers inflicted on the boy that irks everyone off.:cool:
 
D*ck move, that's all i can say. i mean, for heaven's sake (Doing my best to stay G-rated at this point) they bring the kid almost to the point of tears! This is why i hate cops...you can tell them the truth all you want, but in the end, they hear what they want to hear and report what they want to report. You say, "No, wasn't anywhere NEAR the tracks, let alone on them!" and the cop hears "I was ON the track!"

now i gotta go scream for a little while...sorry but this really makes me mad.
 
So now the "hate the cops" brigade comes out, wake up, if you were being beaten to death you would welcome the sight of a cop.

You are judging the Police response on a 1 minute recording of a 15 minute encounter, why hasn't he uploaded the rest???

If you listen carefully to the officers in the background they were responding to a call from RAILROAD personal reporting someone ON railroad property, on his knees, next to the track fiddling with something, and when the officer in that recording says that the kid was close to the tracks he denies it, even though the officer saw him moving away from the tracks when he rolled up, he then states that he was closer but not next to the track, and you expect the officer to believe him.
Then when caught lying he says he is not saying anything else until his layer is present, who has the attitude problem, number one rule when innocent is 'do not lie'.

The only thing I can think of is that he was half burying his camera in the ballast to get a "run over" type sequence, if that was the case why didn't he just admit it and face the consequences.

I don't know about the states, but in Australia it is illegal to record a conversion without the consent of the other parties, and in the comments for the video he states that the police know nothing about it.

Yes the police are sometimes impatient with this kind of thing, but look at it from their perspective, if it is some mad bomber then they are in danger, if it is innocent, most likely, then they just want to get it over and done with and get back to real police work, not have to keep hammering at some person with attitude to get to the truth, I have been questioned by the police while taking photo's and never had a problem, in fact once the police went to the people that complained and told them to mind their own business :)

Cheers David, who respects the police and gets respect back.
 
Definition of a Conservative: A Liberal who just got robbed at gunpoint.

Definition of a Liberal: A Conservative who just got arrested on suspicion of being suspicious.
 
Crazy, Looks like he has a case to me against the Dept. Atleast the cops can get jobs as mall cops once he is finished with them. To me it seems like the police officer had abit of a power trip going. But sure did go abit over the top for someone taking a video of a Train.

Cheers

Trent
 
He may have been placing a cell phone tape recorder right near, or on the RR ties, to get sound effects.

Definitely suspicious looking activity (crouching down near the tracks), trespassing on right of way ... and what if a 16 y/o was placing an IED, or tampering with track connections or signal wires ?

Quote: Here's a segment (one of the most important parts) of my encounter with 4 police departments; Greenburgh (The RUDE officer(s) you hear), North Castle, Westchester County, and MTA Police. I was handcuffed and arrested for taking photos at a Metro North Railroad Crossing (PICTURED ABOVE) (10-15 feet away from the tracks) in North White Plains, NY. The Harlem Line was shut down and the area was searched for "devices". I was originally recording a train horn with my phone's recording app, but because I was unable to touch anything, my phone fortunately kept recording for 1 hour and 50 mins! In this segment, I am in handcuffs, all of the 4 police departments have arrived, and I am being interrogated for the 5th time. Keep in mind my rights WERE NOT read to me (which is required by law). The officer yelling in the recording is a Lieutenant of Greenburgh Police Department. He tries to lie and say I was on the tracks when he "rolled up", but he was the 4th officer on the scene and by the time he arrived, I was already in handcuffs, which makes no sense! If you listen carefully, you can hear one of the officers say "GIVE UP" in the background (2:02)In the end I was issued a summons for "Unlawfully entering and remaining on RR property". I now have a court case on July 12th. (Recorded 6/6/11

Squish a Penny on the RR tracks ... Go to Jail

Playing the accordion in public is illegal in 13 States ... Play the accordion ... Go to Jail

Playing the bagpipes in public, without firsthand obtaining a municipal noise permit ... is disturbing the peace ! Go directly to Jail ... Do Not pass "GO" !
http://www.google.com/search?q=get+...&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1417&bih=708
 
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I've talked to engineers, conductors, and even my friends in law enforcement about matters like this before. When you get that close to the track, or however close, the engineer has no idea what you're going to do. Whoever called it in, as most humans do, exaggerated I'm sure and thus the cops had to show up in full force.

From the looks of it though once I see the different pictures, this kid was in a rural area where there's no real business for people to be hanging out there anyways. There are rules for being around railroad property, and just because you haven't been questioned before by law enforcement doesn't mean that it won't happen. The suspicious device thing is a little quirky, but I guess when you don't know all the things that railfans use or have, everything is a "suspicious device".

Now do we know if this kid was actually arrested? Or if they cuffed him and put him in the patrol car while they contacted his parents and filed out paperwork? It doesn't say anything in the video description, and there is a difference between being placed under arrest (you go to jail) vs. being temporarily detained (cuffed and released on scene). You don't need to be read rights at this point either, they only read rights if they have to question you at the police station after the crime was committed.

It's going to be a case of hearsay all around, but law enforcement generally will get the advantage. Most harassment and distress suits will get thrown out or will have minimal compensation for the plaintiff, that is if he does plan to actually sue for that. I'm sure the kid was scared that he was in handcuffs, and I'm sure we're missing a whole chunk to this story, but I wish the best for both parties.

Remember, while it may seem to us that cops do nothing but harass railfans alike, they do have a job to make sure that people are conducting themselves in a safe manner. Breaking rules and/or laws set out by government agencies is not exactly a good way to safely conduct yourself.

Just my 2 1/2 cents.
 
Regardless if the cops were just doing their job or not (I don't hate the cops, my sister and her husband are both cops, I even applied myself) it sounds like the aggressive attitude was beyond reasonable. Do they not realise that sometimes a more passive approach yeilds results far quicker than jumping in with the heavy mob? I realise we only get to hear one side of the story so none of us can really comment accurately based on the evidence but is paranoia really an excuse for such treatment of a kid?
 
Has anyone thought that the 'frustrated' officer had recently had to cope with telling someones parents that their child had just been killed by a train, or maybe just came from a car accident/collision where people were killed and his nerves were still a little raw.
Don't forget this person was reported to the police for trespassing, therefore there are witnesses to the fact that he was breaking the law, and was booked for that offense, quote "Unlawfully entering and remaining on RR property"
While the officer was abrupt the offender was not exactly being cooperative and truthful either, whom-ever reported him must be respected by the Railroad company (as they closed down lines as well), so who do you believe, a trespasser or at least one respected eye witness.

Please remember that the police have to treat him as suspicious, how would you like it if one of your family was blown to bits, then you discover that the bomber was reported to the police, but they let him go when he said he was just taking photo's of trains, at the least you would demand that those officers were fired for dereliction of duty.

Nuff said for now, it will be decided in court.

Cheers David
 
Hi Everybody.
I think that it has been reported by the news channels all around the world that terrorist groups are now looking at public transport systems other than airlines as their possible targets for the future. Intelligence information gained by Western governments has pointed to railways as a particular future target for terrorist activity.

Therefore (at least to me) it is no wonder that police and railway authorities are taking much more aggressive action against anyone acting suspiciously or undertaking any unauthorized activity close to a railway line or other ancillary equipment belonging to a railway.

As a regular rail user my work often has me travelling up to London or other big cities in the UK in the rush-hour. I am not sure how many passengers a UK intercity 130 would be carrying at those times, especially with many people standing but it must be up to or even over 1000 persons. On approach to London Paddington these trains are still doing up to 100 mph as the run through the London suburbs.

One only has to think of the carnage that could be caused if one of these consist could be derailed in the above circumstances. I for one as the rail passenger am glad that the police and authorities are taking stronger action against unauthorized persons near to railways not only for my own safety but for the safety of other passengers on those Trains, and persons living and working near the line.

As for the age of this youngster let's not forget that terrorist groups target young people as recruits to their perverted views and causes getting them to carry out the carnage they so desperately desire.

Bill.
 
Lest we forget, that there presently is a Homeland Security: reciently enacted heightend state of alert for RR areas.

Iowa: A RR switch was tampered with, and the damage was disquised with a plastic bag over the equipment.

A 22 y/o USMC ex-reservest (naturalized citizen from Etheopia) was arrested after closing time in Arlington Cemetary, near the Pentagon and DOD, and his car was hidden in the bush's. Substance found in his backpack was later determined to be inert, (possibly powder, or spray paint). His laptop contained references to an avid interest in terror groups. He was suspected of having recient mental behavioral problems, and an arrest for vandalism of cars.
 
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Hi Everybody.
Red_Rattler said:
Disregarding what he did or didn't do, the same railroad also has a Youtube account. See http://www.youtube.com/mtainfo.
Click to expand...


I can only assume that Red Rattler is making the point that the organization responsible for the railway development are giving out information that could be useful to terrorists organizations or others trying to access the railway.

Well, the company responsible for the development whether private or public would want people to see the extent of the development, the services that will be obtainable from the new enterprise, and to either shareholders or the general public paying for the new operation exactly what their money was being spent on. Personally it is no more than I would expect any organization to do engaged in this kind of development.

The above would not give any person without authorization the right to access any part of the development and their common sense should tell them that. Therefore anyone who does access the railway or the building work still ongoing without authorization should expect to be questioned thoroughly and harshly about their activities and should also expect little sympathy from others while that was going on

pfx said:
Phew! Thank goodness we only had one riot and two bomb alerts last night/this morning.
Click to expand...

Pfx I believe the riot you are referring to was carried out by youths in Northern Ireland yesterday evening. Well, we all did stupid things in our teenage years and found ourselves in trouble, it is just the nature of youth and very much expected by others.

Therefore the above makes the point that when reported that the 16-year-old was accessing the railway track in the way that he seems to have done, the authorities responded in a harsh manner to teach him responsibility and that there are consequences to such actions. I would very much hope at the youths responsible for the trouble in Ireland are also taught the consequences of their actions if and when arrested.

To a great many on this forum railways are places of interest and nostalgia there for leisure purposes and the engagement a hobby. However, on the mainland of the United Kingdom and throughout Europe they are once again at the forefront of the Nations transport system. Therefore, they are places of work, danger and tight security policy. Rail fans would do well to remember that and perhaps they would not get themselves into so much trouble.

Bill
 
wholbr said:
Pfx I believe the riot you are referring to was carried out by youths in Northern Ireland yesterday evening. Well, we all did stupid things in our teenage years and found ourselves in trouble, it is just the nature of youth and very much expected by others.
Click to expand...

If only it were so trivial Bill.

Fortunately, it was merely a 'recreational' riot a few hundred yards from my house. Dozens of petrol bombs (which I can't quite understand given the price of petrol these days!) only 2 people shot, and one Peeler injured so fairly mild by our standards. Sadly, it is riot season so there's plenty more to look forward to over coming weeks, along with the multiple bomb alerts. I think it only ever makes the UK news if someone is killed.

To avoid breaching the CoC and getting politcal though, the point I was making is that while people are using increased security risk as justification or not as to what happened to the train spotter, we can't live our lives as prisoners of paranoia and fear. Bombs, riots, and the like while certainly being hazardous or even fatal, are treated as an inconvenience. To some that may seem strange but when it's such a regular occurance, that's how you get past it all. : ) Maybe I could entice you over to do a risk assessment of the next one? Hehe.

I think what Red_Rattler was highlighting (apologies if I'm wrong) was the "If you see something, say something" section of the site which promotes vigilance. Something which has been commonplace in UK stations and the London Underground for many years.
 
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