We're not REAL Model Railroaders--- are we?

[davesnow]

I ventured into a model railroad hobby shop recently and the young man who worked there came running over to me and asked, "Do you have a model railroad?" I replied, "I sure do! But my model railroad is on my computer." Well, his head (and mood) dropped when I started explaining how I design and build my model railroad with Trainz Railroad Simulator. He walked away (rather quickly) before I could finish talking about Trainz. The rest of my visit I was basically given the cold shoulder while he talked to some other customers who were "real" model railroaders (HO scale, N scale, etc.).

This isn't the first time I was ignored in a model railroad hobby shop when I explained my model railroad was Trainz--- even by customers. I realize, I probably won't be buying a $169.00 HO scale SD70ACe or a bunch of scenery items like buildings, trees, vehicles, track, etc. etc. Money talks, as they say. But I do buy books and other stuff there so, hey, we all share a love of trains so why can't we TRAINZ people be considered REAL model railroaders, too?

Anyone else have a similar experience?

Cheers,

Dave

 

[aardvark1]

Hi Dave,

A thought.....

If you have a laptop, take it to the store with a Trainz version installed.

Show the people at the shop how easy it is to set up a route, etc.

Then, suggest to them, that they get Trainz to.....help....their customers design a layout.

They retailers could then....suggest....equipment, etc. to use on the virtual layout....and generate a sale.

Perhaps you and the retailer could work out some sort of discount on your book purchases if it works out they increase their sales.

Of course, the shop would need to provide their own comp and buy a version of Trainz.

My thoughts on how..... money might talk.

Regards,
Ron

 

[SD45T-2]

This is why I don't like mentioning Trainz or MSTS to anyone. I think I'm going to get your response.

 

[johnwhelan]

They probably feel threatened, the more people who do our stuff, the less money there is for the model railway shops.

I'm a member of HMRS and the Broad Gauge Society both have been very useful sources of information and one or two of them have moved into the virtual world. GWR broad gauge items are quite expensive, they've recently been creating items with 3D printers which is sort of interesting for small production runs.

Cheerio John

 

[sawyer811]

Thankfully, I do actually model railroad, but I lack the space for a good-sized layout (a la George Sellios, Tony Koester, Allen McClelland, etc) so, while i have a "4 by 8-ish" (it's actually a little less) layout in my shared family basement, I am able to build the big layout of my dreams in trainz. I have talked about that at the ONE hobby shop we have left in Kansas City and they've balked at me.

granted, they still like me because i still pay for their highly overpriced products (Not trying to be a drag, but as the only shop in town, they can get away with it), but to me, trainz is much more practical than trying to cram Raton Pass or the Water Level Route down the Hudson valley into a basement. in trainz, I don't have to selectively compress anything, nor do I have to shorten main line runs to fit in more towns, and take the hit on train lengths that comes with it. I don't have to run 20 car unit coal trains and pretend they're the 100 car trains of real life. and i don't have basement walls (and other miscelanious things like the water heater and such) getting in my way of expansion.

I've even used trainz to plan modifications to my N-scale layout (I model in N) by realistically plotting how much track I can logically put in a certain place and what industries will fit where (for instance, will a grain elevator fit here, or would a simple unloading ramp work better?)

so, just saying, trainz is nothing to be looked down on in the Model Railroading world. it is simply just another scale that can be modelled in. and it can help your real model railroad as well.

 

[mrscsi]

Well I consider us all to be V scale modelers. And while it may put a dent in the traditional hobby shop business model, I don't think it's going away. Because I for one have always looked at Trainz as the model railroad that I always wanted as a kid but my parents couldn't afford, and that I always wanted as an adult but either never had space for nor would my wife allow me to take up that much space:hehe:

So I'm a proud V scale modeler…

 

[fordmercman]

As a life-long model railroader,I can tell you many in that community dont like any train simulator. Model railroad is a hobby that has been in steady decline for years. And the price of equipment keeps going up. Many new freight cars in HO and N scale are 30 dollars. And they come from China. To me that is insane,even with the increased level of detail over 30 years ago. I have been pondering selling all of my N scale in the past week,and I think it wont be long.
Now I have already had the debate with model railroaders that my computer is made in China. Well there isn't much choice there. But otherwise,I have cut products made in China down to a trickle. I am not trying to turn this thread political,I just dont feel good about model railroading,anymore.

 

[Stationbeem]

My local model shop surprised me when i mentioned that i only wanted books to copy the layouts. They asked why so i told them that i use Trainz on my comp. What a surprise to find out that they stocked Trainz and that they advised their customers to to use it. That shop is never short on customers.

 

[DeRiCo]

I have gone full circle now.

I started at age 10 and dreamed of having a large layout.
My mother used to allow me to take over the lounge room for a week at a time and lay out my Triang tracks all around the room.

Later I did build a small 4' x 6' layout in HO but did not even finish the scenery.

Money, family, work, and time caused a halt in any further layout plans.

After getting into computers back in 1983, I have progressed to planning a layout again. Trainz has helped me model some and I have finally began layouts again.

Recently built a HO Hornby layout for my grandson who is totally into trains, which my daughter blames on me.

Now the full circle part. I have started an 'N' gauge layout of 2400 x 1800 (8' x 6') and Trainz has helped me in the planning stages.

I have noticed that everthing is a lot more costly now, and that will slow my progress a lot. That is one of the reasons the hobby has lost some customers, also the younger generation does not seem as interested in railways as we were. The same is happening in the Veteran Car movement. But I will plod on as it gets me out of my computer chair for a bit of exercise anyway.

My great advantage is the fact that I drove trains for 41 years, and that gives me first hand knowledge of everything railway.

So I say do both and enjoy both sides of the hobby.

Dennis

 

[cascaderailroad]

The Model RR industry is in a slump in sales.

At a Model RR Convention, I overheard two table owners: "Hows sales ?" "Yesterday I was lucky to make $50 ... today, nothing ... everybodys picking things up, getting greasy fingerprints on them, breaking them, and walking away without buying". "This is the last year for me, I'm going broke".

It's no wonder hobby shop owners shun Trainz ... it is driving away sales, and the few customers that do manage to come into the store.

 

[railbaron1962]

Yes, we are all model railroaders

I have grown up with real trains as my father and brothers all worked for the Santa Fe in Oklahoma. I actually ran trains starting at age 13 when engineers would ask me if I would like to get in the cab and go with them. My father was a depot agent in many towns across NW, NC & NE Ok as well as southern KS. the longest journey I had was from Burlington Ok to Cherokee Ok during wheat harvest the engineer had me put reverser in forward position, release the brake and throttle up. That was a 14 mile drive. I had also got to shove cars in the yard when we moved to Enid OK in 1976. For years I had a model railroad layout my largest was 15' x 40' and then in 1999 I sold it all. I now just photopraph trains and have been since 8 years old. My only regret is that I did not have a 35mm camera or anyone to take the time to show me back during 1972 - 1980 as I would have had many pics of early geeps and lots of F units. I started train simulators in 2001 and so if all the builders on this site ever need pics of trains, buildings mow equip etc.. I have over 35,000 available. I did own a hobby shop for 8 years and I did stock everything related to trains did not discriminate against anyone persons "TRAIN pref". - Ron from Edmond OK

 

[Klinger]

I do have a model railroad, a 4x15 foot HOn3 layout

 

[mrscsi]

As a life-long model railroader,I can tell you many in that community dont like any train simulator. Model railroad is a hobby that has been in steady decline for years. And the price of equipment keeps going up. Many new freight cars in HO and N scale are 30 dollars. And they come from China. To me that is insane,even with the increased level of detail over 30 years ago. I have been pondering selling all of my N scale in the past week,and I think it wont be long.
Now I have already had the debate with model railroaders that my computer is made in China. Well there isn't much choice there. But otherwise,I have cut products made in China down to a trickle. I am not trying to turn this thread political,I just dont feel good about model railroading,anymore.

Well not dwelling on the political, take an HO or N scale piece of rolling stock or locomotive and compare that to a JointedRail locomotive for 10 bucks…

To me there is no comparison, that actual model in no way could ever hope to reach the level of realism that we are able to put into models for Trainz. If they did they would cost thousands of dollars no matter where they were built.

 

[johnwhelan]

Dare I admit one of my 8 by 4 layouts is lego these days, no problems keeping the track clean. The "n" gauge is in a cupboard, to much hassle trying to keep the track clean, the other layout is Duplo on a 3 foot by 6 foot table. That one is really fun you press the button on the loco and it chunters round over a little hump back bridge,whistles at the whistle board and finally stops at the other station.

Cheerio John

 

[SD45T-2]

Lionel's Vision line is JR for the model word although it's mighty expensive.

 

[dricketts]

Thankfully, I do actually model railroad, but I lack the space for a good-sized layout (a la George Sellios, Tony Koester, Allen McClelland, etc) so, while i have a "4 by 8-ish" (it's actually a little less) layout in my shared family basement, I am able to build the big layout of my dreams in trainz. I have talked about that at the ONE hobby shop we have left in Kansas City and they've balked at me.

Just one? I can think of 3 off the top of my head in the KC metro.

I was at the one in Grandview about a year ago. I jokingly mentioned to the owner that he would probably kick me out if he knew I was modeling in V-scale. He was pretty nice and said they welcome anyone who is interested in modeling trains.

Though I can understand how a small shop owner might feel threatened by our virtual hobby.

 

[Thai1On]

I have no choice but to be a v-model railroader by choice of my location, rural Thailand. There are no hobby shops let alone any that might stock model railroad stuff. Like many here I started my love affair with railroads started back when I was 3 or 4 when my grandfather took me to see the trains. Around 7 I got my first HO set and stayed with the hobby off and on till I moved to Thailand.

I think the price of the equipment is killing the hobby and taking it out of the realm of the average person. Just looking online at the price of model railroad equipment is staggering now! Space is another problem although I remember sweating and freezing in the attic of our old house working on the railroad, great memories. Now as a v-railroader I can create a fictional semi prototypical railroad of my dreams but both hobbies produce the same thing...an annoyed wife :hehe:

Dave

 

[martinvk]

My grandfather worked on the railroad, my father made HO models and I do my creating in V-scale. I detect a trend there.

Of course they didn't have personal computers back in the day so it's not an equal comparison. Even though there might be something to the tactile dimension of physical models, I find the advantages of virtual models is overwhelming. Details that physical models can only dream about. True prototype fidelity. Ask a physical modeller if his wheel flanges are really to scale. The ability to drive engines from the engineers point of view. No fear of dropping a very expen$ive model. The ability to have multiple layouts at the same time.

The two biggest, IMHO are space and cost. It would be an interesting exercise to calculate what it would cost in space and money if the default routes and assets in Trainz were to be recreated as physical models.

 

[jeffmorris]

I lost interest in my 16-foot by 8-foot O-Gauge train layout built on shelves running around my bedroom a few years ago. Thanks to Trainz, I am able to model the entire NYCTA subway system.

 

[mrscsi]

I have no choice but to be a v-model railroader by choice of my location, rural Thailand. There are no hobby shops let alone any that might stock model railroad stuff. Like many here I started my love affair with railroads started back when I was 3 or 4 when my grandfather took me to see the trains. Around 7 I got my first HO set and stayed with the hobby off and on till I moved to Thailand.

I think the price of the equipment is killing the hobby and taking it out of the realm of the average person. Just looking online at the price of model railroad equipment is staggering now! Space is another problem although I remember sweating and freezing in the attic of our old house working on the railroad, great memories. Now as a v-railroader I can create a fictional semi prototypical railroad of my dreams but both hobbies produce the same thing...an annoyed wife :hehe:

Ditto on the annoyed wife part:hehe:





Dave

But there's something to be said for being able to scratch build your own toys sitting in the sun room on laptop or sitting in my La-Z-Boy on the desktop. My wife appreciates that is not messy like it would be if I were actually messing with it outside of the virtual world.

I used to do RC airplanes, oh that would really make her mad, hundreds of dollars, a messy workroom, X-Acto marks on the workbench, the cost of fuel, glow plugs and all accessories, forgetting to snap the $.02 clevis on the elevator or aileron and watching it all turn back into kit form in seconds, priceless for me, extremely aggravating for her which in turn would make my life miserable:hehe:

She tolerates V scale railroading so much better