Welcome to TRS22 from the CEO

[JCitron]

Was in Driver mode and not paused. Was ATLS controller and everything was set correctly but it did not work. So I replaced it with an all-in-one crade crossing.

Oh okay. ATLS... in the Session editor, check that the channels are still there for the components. I ran into that recently with one of my routes.

 

[RailPilgrim]

If I buy TRS22 -Early Access, will I get the final full version as an update or will I need to re-purchase it? Early access says to me that this is still a work in progress.
How long will I need to wait in order to get it? I can't see an option for it on the Store pages nor has it been mentioned in any of the recent newsletters.

Note - I do not want to be a beta tester nor do I want/need access to the various subscriptions on offer.

 

[wreeder]

My experience with "early access" products normally mean incomplete or not yet implemented features and of course bugs. On Steam, purchase of a product with early access status means you will get the finished product when it has all the advertised features included and is considered stable enough for release. Of course some products cease development before reaching that point.

 

[Tony_Hilliam]

Yes Early Access is build 116492. The official release edition will be an update to that version. In the meantime we're updating content, tweaking things, fixing bugs to make the release edition as good as possible.

The biggest changes will be the addition of MPS for TRS22 owners, the new Schwaninger Land German routes (with Ice 4) and localisation in 10 or so languages.

The membership option of course adds a First Class Ticket, Surveyor 2.0, and new features and content throughout the year.

 

[JackDownUnder]

I commend the N3V group for their dedication in advancing this product, however;
1 - I already have a lifetime first class ticket.
2 - I do not run the in game routes or sessions.
3 - I only run my own route which has taken me since TRS2004 to bring to fruition.
4 - I am currently on build 117009 which is more than adequate for my needs.
5 - I would however not wish to be left behind in the event TRS2019 became unsupported.
6 - I do not and have never subscribed to an annual subscription fee for any program and do not intend to start now at my advanced age of 83.
7 - I would pay for TRS2022 as a one off payment, however preferably for a region version "Steam UK".
8 - I am interested only in the NER prior to amalgamation into the LNER in 1922, ie, the late Victorian and Edwardian/Georgian period.
9 - Will such an issue be considered and if so when would it likely be available.

 

[pware]

I commend the N3V group for their dedication in advancing this product, however;
1 ... 9

You have just demonstrated that Trainz is a "broad church" with many users each with different expectations and ways of using the product.

1. I too have a "lifetime" FCT but that did not discourage me from getting an annual subscription and a great product (Trainz Plus with TRS22 thrown in for free).
2. I occasionally run some of the built in routes and sessions but they were not my prime reason for upgrading.
3. Likewise, I spend most of my time developing my own creations. My current project, a major update, also began with TRS2004.
4. Each new version and build is also "adequate" for my needs, until the next one comes along. Usually within a few months of a new version coming out I delete the previous version, usually due to lack of use.
5. I am certain the TRS12 was a "typo" and you meant TRS22. TRS22 will (eventually) become "unsupported" but by then (current world events not withstanding) we will be enjoying an even better new version of Trainz. Your timeline shows that you have been through this upgrade process many times.
6. I was also very reluctant to go over to subscription software. It started with my virus checker (easier and safer than manually updating particularly when I forget), then moved to my system cleanup utility (same reasons) and now Trainz Plus. The cost (minimal) was far outweighed by the advantages. I, however, drew the line at going over to an MS Office 365 subscription - since I retired I have no need of that level and use a free equivalent product instead.
7. The annual subscription gave me a "free" permanent copy of TRS22, so no need to purchase it.
8. and 9. With Trainz you can create (or use the creations of others) for any region or period, real or imagined (Mars anyone?), that you want.

My thoughts.

Peter (also Down Under)

 

[JackDownUnder]

5 - I intended to type TRS2019
7 - I will not take a subscription.
8,9 - I do not have time what with all the involvement that I have with my own Route(s).

 

[Driver_Col]

5 - I intended to type TRS2019
7 - I will not take a subscription.
8,9 - I do not have time what with all the involvement that I have with my own Route(s).

Hi JDU - Re your 8 & 9 - As a fellow Route builder, I can relate to your concerns albeit perhaps for different reasons. I too started back with TRS2004, went to TRS2006, to TC3 etc. until now where I have TRS22. TRS22 has incredible potential as a Route creation tool however, from my current perspective, it is only practical for new Route creation. I have put a really obscene amount of hours into moving my key Routes through the various iterations of Trainz ... and TANE provided my most enjoyable times as I overhauled my Routes accordingly. TRS19 was an exercise in total frustration for me ... and TRS22???

For me, the current reality is that each Route will take about as much time to be acceptable to me in TRS22 as it took to create them in the first place. I have an excellent working relationship with TANE and am therefore not too excited about going through that all over again. So where does that put me, and where might it relate to you? I would highly recommend getting TRS22. I would also suggest that you keep working on your current project in whatever version is most practical, but take a break periodically and play around in TRS22. The options it provides might just tempt you into starting another Route! That is exactly where I stand today. I am staying with TANE, but dabbling in TRS22 occasionally!

By the way, and to give you a reference point for my comments, I am 75 ... and my favourite Routes (which may never make it into TRS22) are Tristyn District (GWR), Badger Tanglefoot (LMS), Drummond (SR), Rosworth Vale (LNER), with a sentimental attachment to Rivendell (LMS/GWR), and I have a Norfolk/Suffolk Route, as well as a CNR/CPR Route in progress. My Routes typically dictate in the area of 400 hours +/- each, hence my reluctance to take them beyond TANE. All the best. Colin.

 

[pware]

7 - I will not take a subscription.

And that is your right. N3V have stated on many occasions that they will not be going over to an all subscription model so you will/should always have the option of outright purchase.

Having said that, there is an interesting article in today's Sydney Morning Herald/Melbourne Age/Canberra Times about the future of PC gaming. Microsoft, EA, Ubisoft are all moving to a subscription model for their gaming products with the gaming console makers, Sony, Nintendo, etc also looking at the idea.

 

[dundun92]

Having said that, there is an interesting article in today's Sydney Morning Herald/Melbourne Age/Canberra Times about the future of PC gaming. Microsoft, EA, Ubisoft are all moving to a subscription model for their gaming products with the gaming console makers, Sony, Nintendo, etc also looking at the idea.

True. XBOX Game Pass is $14 a month ($168 yearly) for over 100 games. Trainz plus is $8 a month ($70 yearly), for just a single game. Yes, I understand Microsoft is a huge company, and can afford to offer so much for so cheap, but I think its easy to see why a lot of people (including me) don't see trainz+ as such a great deal compared to other subscription services. The problem is not with using subscription services. The problem is the absurd price of Trainz+. Tony already said one time payments or lower subscription costs wont cover their expenses, so I honestly don't know what to say to them.

 

[Sanek17]

Is it planned to support textures with a resolution of 4096x4096 without quality loss?

 

[pware]

XBOX Game Pass is $14 a month ($168 yearly) for over 100 games. Trainz plus is $8 a month ($70 yearly), for just a single game.

A valid point but you are not comparing apples with apples. I have looked at some of the 100+ games available on the XBOX Game Pass site and none of those I examined were developed by Microsoft. They could all be purchased separately with prices ranging from $US4.50 to about $US50. From the descriptions given some of them were "puzzle" type games that once you have solved the central puzzle you would probably not be interested in playing them again - unlike Trainz.

I understand Microsoft is a huge company, and can afford to offer so much for so cheap, but I think its easy to see why a lot of people (including me) don't see trainz+ as such a great deal compared to other subscription services.

Again a valid point. The value of a service depends entirely on the opinion of the user. Microsoft 365 (formerly known as Office 365) for example could be a valuable subscription for anyone in need of the services it provides at $US75 per year for the basic level subscription. Regular "free" software updates (but actually included in the price) and 6TB cloud storage could be the "sweetener" but if you have little use for a word processor, spreadsheet, database manager, etc, then it is not a great deal.

To me, at least, Trainz Plus does offer value for money. Regular "free" updates (but again included in the price) and access to new features - the UDS was the "sweetener" that convinced me to get the subscription and I have not been disappointed by it. The offer of a free copy of TRS22 and access to the content vault convinced me to go to the Annual Subscription and then the Gold Membership. I have not been a great user of DLC in the past but the content vault has changed that - there are some really great offerings available there. The Surveyor 2.0 interface is really impressive and I am slowly starting to use some of its features - but teaching an old dog new tricks is never easy. It took me quite a while (and much cursing) before I was comfortable with using the Microsoft Office Ribbon and there are still some times when I get lost.

But I fully appreciate that a subscription product is not something that everyone could afford or need. Each user will be different.

The problem is not with using subscription services. The problem is the absurd price of Trainz+. Tony already said one time payments or lower subscription costs wont cover their expenses, so I honestly don't know what to say to them.

Pricing is relative to ones needs and circumstances. Going back to the first point above, it seems that Microsoft is the distributor, not the creator, of the XBOX games (at least the ones I looked at). They offer their suppliers (the actual developers) a volume market that each developer would be unlikely to achieve themselves. With increased sales the fixed costs are spread further and prices can be lowered. The same could possibly be true if Trainz was offered as an XBOX game - I recall a discussion on this suggestion in the forums some years back and the general consensus was NO.

Apart from those stated above, one of my main reasons for going to the subscription service and then to the Gold Membership was to support N3V, a local (Australian) company. Their products have given me a great deal of pleasure and, most importantly, kept me sane when I was working in an often very stressful job (teaching teenagers and doing IT support - mostly simultaneously) and more recently through the many lock downs of the Pandemic.

My opinions.

 

[dundun92]

A good response, pware. And, yes, it does go down to each users preference and their own budget. I personally am not in a state where I can constantly give out $100 each year like that. I don't have any subscriptions from any software. When I wanted Substance Painter for 3d texturing for example, I was relieved to find a version on steam that's a one-time payment of $150 (Expensive, but rather that then $250+ yearly for adobe creative cloud, which is totally out of my budget), and the developers said the reason they still have the non-subscription version is because it attracts a large amount of people (like me) that would otherwise not buy any adobe products period if they were all subscription. And going back to trainz, after testing the standalone beta, the only thing I really noticed that was different was the loading screen, mps, and much better performance (which would be my only interest in buying it), but nothing drastic to warrant upgrading to a subscription. And considering the fact that the only thing I would really use from the subscription is S20, it just wouldn't be worth it. Again, I agree, comparing Adobe to Trainz is not apples to apples, but my point is I personally think either No subscription but higher priced standalone with S20, or a significantly lower subscription cost is more reasonable.

 

[capdiamont]

I’m sorry but reasonable is dependent on one’s view point. If there was a much larger audience for Trains programs, then the cost could be spread out more. For small companies, they have all the legal and bookkeeping needs that the large companies can spread out among all their projects. Programmers are not cheap. Cyber security, network, and server admins. Add in artists, electricity, bandwidth, hardware, space, taxes with many localities requiring their own cut of taxes. There is lots of costs people don’t consider. I don’t think it is fair to compare small companies to large companies. Large companies get breaks with ordering massive amounts of hardware. Then there is costs to maintain the forums, plus costs for all the content. We have had decades of Trainz. We can support it, or someday wonder what happened to them. New OS changes also make things hard for them.

 

[Tony_Hilliam]

My 2c...
Since 2004 you've probably spent $5,000 on hardware, $5-15,000 on Internet fees, thousands of dollars on coffee/beer/chocolate/<think of something that makes you happy> and a few hundred bucks on Trainz.
You've probably spent thousands of hours enjoying Trainz.
If 20 cents a day is too much to support the company bringing you new features and content, you can always find a cheaper hobby.
Oh hang on, probably not (since I doubt there is a cheaper hobby).
So without any new versions of Trainz, or any new content, you could save $70 bucks a year. Don't spend it all at once.

 

[amigacooke]

A subscription model used to be quite popular with MMO games, but quite a few, LotRO for example, went to a 'free pay' model.

As far as I am aware Dovetail have no subscription model for its rail simulation products.

Subscription puts a stop to any impulse buying, in the past I've bought software with a view to getting into a particular area, but just never had the time to do so.

On the other hand, if people are happy to pay a subscription for the named benefits, I'm happy to let them

 

[amigacooke]

My 2c...
Oh hang on, probably not (since I doubt there is a cheaper hobby).

Bell ringing, there is no actual costs at all to the individual ringer, it works on a donationware basis, though a local tower may be easier to find in England than in Australia.

Once you reach a certain standard, you can get paid for doing your hobby, funerals, weddings etc.

 

[pware]

Bell ringing,

I already suffer from tinnitus and would not wish to add to it with actual bells ringing in my ears.
In my youth I collected stamps. You bought the album but other people paid for the stamps to send to your address so it was very cheap. Today collecting email address headers isn't quite the same.

Some people spend years and thousands of $$$ (or even more) building real miniature railroad layouts in their basements (if they have one and basements are rare here in Oz) or the garage (and what's wrong with parking the car out on the street anyway?). But I suppose I should not comment on that because I started my current Trainz Plus/TRS22 project back in the days of TRS2004 but it does stretch over 400km, much too big for any garage I know of.

But, when it comes to hobbies, it really is a case of "whatever rings your bell". Tony is correct, Trainz is a cheap hobby. Apart from just a few odd versions I have purchased almost every new release. I even have the latest Android version on my phone which I use to show disbelieving friends and relatives that you can run a railroad on your phone. It has given me endless enjoyment and I am more than happy to return the favour by supporting N3V.

My thoughts.

 

[Driver_Col]

I already suffer from tinnitus and would not wish to add to it with actual bells ringing in my ears.
In my youth I collected stamps. You bought the album but other people paid for the stamps to send to your address so it was very cheap. Today collecting email address headers isn't quite the same.

Some people spend years and thousands of $$$ (or even more) building real miniature railroad layouts in their basements (if they have one and basements are rare here in Oz) or the garage (and what's wrong with parking the car out on the street anyway?). But I suppose I should not comment on that because I started my current Trainz Plus/TRS22 project back in the days of TRS2004 but it does stretch over 400km, much too big for any garage I know of.

But, when it comes to hobbies, it really is a case of "whatever rings your bell". Tony is correct, Trainz is a cheap hobby. Apart from just a few odd versions I have purchased almost every new release. I even have the latest Android version on my phone which I use to show disbelieving friends and relatives that you can run a railroad on your phone. It has given me endless enjoyment and I am more than happy to return the favour by supporting N3V.

My thoughts.

Having had an "00" gauge railway in my basement, I have to agree with you. In fact, I dismantled it a few years ago and donated a good proportion of it to a local model railway society (why shouldn't I let other people enjoy it?). What I kept are the pieces of particular nostalgic value which are now on a shelf static display arrangement. So the question that often arises from that piece of my history is "Don't you miss playing with it?" The answer is a decisive "No", because I have Trainz. Trainz routes are not limited by the size of the available space, and I can have pretty much any kind of train era that I want. My Tri-Ang rolling stock was LMS, and I inherited my Dad's GWR .... but now not only can I run LNER and SR, but also CNR and CPR! The cost to do all that (and more if I wish) is minimal so, as much as Trainz frustrates the hell out of me at times, I was more than pleased to go with the Gold Plus arrangement. So much pleasure at so small a cost. Regards. Colin

 

[G.M.]

Everything you spent monthly is only worth it if you actually use it
like Tony said 20 cent a day is real cheap if you play Trainz everyday
besides the basic fee, you have the freedom if you use DLC or payware.
if you create your own stuff and are not a "wannahaveitall"
its about the cheapest hobby I can imagine.