Using maps to build your UK route? Read this

[Corporal_Major]

I shall Not be using OS maps for any of my routes after reading this:

http://www.uktrainsim.com/index2.php?form_reader=ordsurv&CUTHERE=d79c08a39b1b803e9496d051e4566173

 

[fran1]

however you may use any map that is over 50 years old without cost or formal agreement. the basics of what we need (unless its the CTRL, Selby diversion ECML),even the ongoing reopenings in Scotland are way over 50 years old, the roads i'm sure are not critical to such a degree, the coastline hasn't changed that much surely.

 

[Capt_Haddock]

Basing a route on an OS map and reproducing the map to allow it to be passed onto other people are two entirely different things.

It is difficult to see why a route would need to include any OS information once it is completed. Even if you temporarily copy OS data on to Basemaps to trace over, the basemaps are deleted once you have finished. It is difficult to see how OS could claim any fee in this circumstance.

Meanwhile, the elevational (STRM) data produced by NASA is free to use as are Google Maps, although the latter are very inferior in detail compared with OS maps.

Chris

 

[jivebunny]

It is difficult to see how OS could claim any fee in this circumstance.

Then there's the question of how on earth they would ever a) find out you were using scanned maps in the first place and b) prove it.

JB

 

[Harry_James_Potter]

What it says is that if you use their data to make a map, even if you get rid of all the other stuff you don't need and just use the height data alone, you'll have to pay.

Any map that's more than 50 years old is free to use because it's out of Copyright.

Please remember that any data or map produced by the Ordinance Survey is Crown Copyright and thus property of HM The Queen and you really don't want to start treading on toes with them at the moment.

Jivebunny, being published by the Crown, they'll have ways and means!!

regards

Harry

 

[jivebunny]

Jivebunny, being published by the Crown, they'll have ways and means!!

True, but this would need to involve...

1) Finding out about TRS, that third parties are able to create routes for it and that OS maps can be used to do this (the request in the link relates to MSTS)
2) Determining who to monitor and linking the usernames to real-world names and addresses.
3) Physically monitoring every one of these people with either a camera trained on our scanners, or by hacking into our PCs. By law this would require MI5's involvement, but I'd imagine (or at least hope!) they're more interested in preventing terrorism than preventing the use of OS maps in a railway simulator.
4) Purchasing TRS and registering it..
5) Downloading and installing a route from the DLS for investigation
6) Being able to tell and prove that an OS map was used to create a route, when the said route contains no absolutely no evidence that this was done (unless they had carried out point #3)

Maybe I'm being complacent but I don't really see any need to panic. Thoughts?

JB

 

[Harry_James_Potter]

True, but this would need to involve...

1) Finding out about TRS, that third parties are able to create routes for it and that OS maps can be used to do this (the request in the link relates to MSTS)
2) Determining who to monitor and linking the usernames to real-world names and addresses.
3) Physically monitoring every one of these people with either a camera trained on our scanners, or by hacking into our PCs. By law this would require MI5's involvement, but I'd imagine (or at least hope!) they're more interested in preventing terrorism than preventing the use of OS maps in a railway simulator.
4) Purchasing TRS and registering it..
5) Downloading and installing a route from the DLS for investigation
6) Being able to tell and prove that an OS map was used to create a route, when the said route contains no absolutely no evidence that this was done (unless they had carried out point #3)

Maybe I'm being complacent but I don't really see any need to panic. Thoughts?

JB

I told you they had ways and means. Now you've just given them the ways and the means... Nice one... :hehe:

regards

Harry

 

[kester]

I do note one thing

the date that the OS was contacted was 2002 although much of the copy right law has not changed on thing that has is that OS know give free maps on there website. I will though bare this in mind for the furture.


ttfn

 

[jivebunny]

I told you they had ways and means. Now you've just given them the ways and the means... Nice one...

Maybe I work for them and I'm monitoring you all mwahahahahaha (or maybe not.)

 

[Harry_James_Potter]

the date that the OS was contacted was 2002 although much of the copy right law has not changed on thing that has is that OS know give free maps on there website. I will though bare this in mind for the furture.


ttfn

You what???

Regards

Harry

 

[johnchisem]

Maybe somebody has stirred a Hornets nest here. Some times it's best to just quietly do your own thing and keep your mouth shut, even if its not quite legal it would probably be too much trouble to police. Personally I am sometimes surprised by the number of people who offer scans of books etc on the forum. And the copyright is very clearly printed at the front of the book! Mind you knowing how things work in the UK there is probably a HUGE department out there just looking for "minor transgressions" and yet overlooking some of the major problems of the whole World as it is at the moment. In Wakefield the penalty for a late library book or illegal parking is 2 or 3 times the penalty for driving without a licence and insurance! Perverse, as they are all illegal.


John

 

[lewisner]

The ironic thing about all this is all OS maps have (at least in the past) been done by the Crown and paid for by the TAXPAYER (you and me).It irks me when I go into a library and I"m given a 3ft by 3ft 25" OS map from the 1950s and I"m told I can only copy one A4 sheet per map.There are ways and means around this but best say nowt....

 

[laldfordo]

The OS is not the only government department to charge for data originally collected at taxpayers' expense, but it is probably the most notorious. What is more they all charge each other and local councils - also part of government! There is an argument that the OS's costs are reduced by selling its data but this is well outweighed by experience in other countries. Where data is made available freely, it spawns lots of entrepreneurial businesses, which add to a country's infrastructure, growth and economy generally.

The Guardian has taken up the cudgels against the government on this issue, as it has on Freedom of Information. To follow the ongoing discussion, look at the Technology section of The Guardian each Thursday.

 

[chrisw27]

The OS is not the only government department to charge for data originally collected at taxpayers' expense, but it is probably the most notorious. What is more they all charge each other and local councils - also part of government! .

Even Police Forces have to apply for and get permission to reproduce OS maps, and if we hadn't got it, it would have made my job a lot more difficult for a start!!:hehe:

chrisw27

ps. See my profile and occupation

 

[kester]

politics

The OS is not the only government department to charge for data originally collected at taxpayers' expense, but it is probably the most notorious. What is more they all charge each other and local councils - also part of government! There is an argument that the OS's costs are reduced by selling its data but this is well outweighed by experience in other countries. Where data is made available freely, it spawns lots of entrepreneurial businesses, which add to a country's infrastructure, growth and economy generally.

The Guardian has taken up the cudgels against the government on this issue, as it has on Freedom of Information. To follow the ongoing discussion, look at the Technology section of The Guardian each Thursday.

this I what happens when goverment departments are privitised or made independent. as for local councils they are not directly part of the goverment and have to partly self fund through council tax (a large chunk of which the government takes anyway).

 

[laldfordo]

Way off track this thread is now. But, at the risk of boring the pants off our US and Antipodean friends:

Local councils are part of government, not central Government obviously.

Central Government doesn't take our council tax - in fact it gives local councils on average three times what we pay in council tax - but most of our council tax goes to the police and the county councils.

You gets what you pays for. (Except with Trainz where I think you get much more). I am at present in the United States in a little town called Cedarburg in Wisconsin. The local services are comprehensive and excellent, far better than we experience in UK. But the council tax is 30 times higher than we pay, based on property prices. Obviously the difference is less startling related to income. And income tax is lower here.

Keep up the pressure on the OS everyone. I don't think they would ever prosecute an individual making one copy for personal use - or win if they did.

 

[leader2302]

Way off track this thread is now. But, at the risk of boring the pants off our US and Antipodean friends:

Actually quite interesting! Makes me glad I live in the U.S.

Here the "Big Brothers" are Car Insurance Companies and Credit Bureaus. Sneeze wrong in the U.S. and your car insurance will go up. Pay a bill a day late and the "Bureau" will know!

But copyright law on maps and documents in the U.S. is somewhat different than the UK. Any non-classified book, map, or document printed by the U.S. government is free to be used by anyone without any fees or copyright controls.