TS2012 SP1 Boycott

[BLACKWATCH]

With the DLS clean up in process, and authors hopefully updating their content to repair the issue, there shouldn't be too long a delay before the issue is resolved.

But authors are updating their content, & when you download the 'update' it is still BROKEN, in fact, in some cases, the last version number showed no warning or fault, but the new 'updated' version does.

How do you work that as an 'improvement' ???????????????

 

[Robert2d6]

I have many add ons and payware like S and C, Marias Pass, Murchison, Roy's Trainz routes, JR add ons, some that I have built sessions on, etc...etc... I see warnings from some of the content creators that created this content to avoid the patch like the plague. In addition, it appears that I not only would have to download SP1 , but then spend hours trying to get all my content that works now , working again by redownloading much of it and then possibly having to fix it, and maybe do a total reinstall of TS12. What next, format my hard drive and reinstall windows? So my question is, what the heck is the point. Like hitting yourself in the heard with a hammer, because you can say it feels good when you stop.

 

[WindWalkr]

I see warnings from some of the content creators that created this content to avoid the patch like the plague.

Each person is of course entitled to his or her own opinion. But that's something that you should weigh up with a grain of salt. While there are some valid complaints, there also seem to be a lot of uninformed opinions going around at the moment.

In addition, it appears that I not only would have to download SP1 , but then spend hours trying to get all my content that works now , working again by redownloading much of it and then possibly having to fix it, and maybe do a total reinstall of TS12.

That's the worst-case scenario, I guess. Or you could just download and install the patch, everything could work seamlessly, and the N3V-provided DLC could download in a few minutes. I can't guarantee you that this will be the case, but there's certainly a much better chance of my example happening than yours. It's always safest to take a backup of your existing install before applying any updates.

When it comes down to fixing content, I'll have to be honest and say that between 1% and 2% of all content is likely to be flagged faulty after installing SP1. The faults are legitimate, and if the content is sourced from the DLS then you'll likely find that it will be updated quite quickly over the next week or so, but it would be remiss of me to imply that you'll see no error flags at all.

What next, format my hard drive and reinstall windows?

Why on earth would you want to do that?

So my question is, what the heck is the point. Like hitting yourself in the heard with a hammer, because you can say it feels good when you stop.

A better question is, why are you making these claims when you haven't even tried it?

kind regards,

chris

 

[Scottish]

I think things are developing into a type of hysteria about this patch. Yes it does take quite a time to download and install because it is large (on my old XP computer with a slow processor and only 2gig ram - 1.5 hours to download, 2.5 hours to install and, to get CM to work correctly, an EDR 4 hours). I strongly recommend doing a EDR after you have patched, since this will reduce the number of faulty assets. Also use the filters in CM to display the list of only the faulty assets, select the entire list and validate them using the 'show errors and warnings' option. This will also reduce the number of faulty assets.

It flagged up 390 faulty assets which do take time to fix (all mainly on old DLS content). 90% of them were because of missing thumbnails or path to the thumbnail not correct in the config. The remainder were mainly mesh libraries with no mesh table. Providing you know a bit about asset repair, these were easily fixed. I now have only 31 awaiting repair (none of which are used in my maps) and I have only spent 5-6 hours on it.

I initially concentrated on fixing the ones which were dependencies on my maps (took about 2 hours), then moved onto the remainder. When they are updated by the creator I will overwrite my repair.

The missing thumbnails were easy. I made a 240x180 tga, just grey with the words "No Thumbnail" and saved it under 3 names- 'screenshot.jpg' '$screenshot$.jpg' and 'thumbnail.jpg'. Using Windows copy and paste I copied the appropriate file into small batches of assets requiring that name of file, then committed. About 2 minutes per file.

I have seen N3V's comments about now making missing thumbnails a fault rather than a warning. Whilst I understand there reasoning, I think it was a mis-judgement to do this at this time because it has caused most of the problems of faulty assets which is having a negative affect on the acceptability of the patch. Was it really that critical to introduce it now rather than let it die a natural death as over time older assets will be used less and newer ones (where thumbnails were a requirement to upload) will be used as they become increasingly available.

Unfortunately, if you do not have any idea of how to do simple asset repairs and you do not understand the messages that the asset validation gives you, you will need to learn a bit about it if you want to use non built-in content.

I cannot comment at the moment if there are features about running the patched version which are good or bad, since I have only run a couple of small routes as an initial test to make sure that it is running OK. Now that I can get down to some serious testing, no doubt I will be making comment in the future.

Scottish

 

[socalwb909]

The missing thumbnails were easy. I made a 240x180 tga, just grey with the words "No Thumbnail" and saved it under 3 names- 'screenshot.jpg' '$screenshot$.jpg' and 'thumbnail.jpg'. Using Windows copy and paste I copied the appropriate file into small batches of assets requiring that name of file, then committed. About 2 minutes per file.

Scottish

-I pretty much did the same thing. Takes me bout 30 seconds per asset to paste my pic in and edit the config.

-Joe

 

[JCitron]

-I pretty much did the same thing. Takes me bout 30 seconds per asset to paste my pic in and edit the config.

-Joe

Same here. I scrawled my in Gimp. It's not as pretty as yours I'm sure.

I figured it's a placeholder if when the original content is updated this will not be an issue. Not a biggie as far as I'm concerned.

I've been using FileBoss to copy the "thumbnail.jpg or screenshot.jpg to multiple assets if they all have the same problem.
FileBoss allows you to copy once and paste in multiple locations. A real time saver for stuff like this. I did 250 assets in one shot.

 

[nugget2225]

Hi,
TS2012 SP1 appears to have been a major fail. I have never seen as much excellent content broken by any other patch, in fact, it's not a patch, it's just making TS2012's OCD error checking worse. I saw today a post claiming a well-known UK payware creators content came up broken because it had no thumbnail. Yup, It's actually this bad now. Even built-in content seems to be broken in some reports. Not only this, but N3V has put in an intergrated payware DLC store and automatic patching. This is why Railworks went down the drain, to much control from the producer. Creators are abandoning the Trainz ship rapidly now, even USLW has gone! It's worse for users that are in to steam era UK stuff like me, with loads of creators going. Lielestosbrat, Cmburgess, MichealWhitley to name a few. Even jayholland hasn't posted in a while, although this more likely to do with personal reasons. Skipper1945, PaulzTrainz and Camscott carry valiantly on, but with every user-phobic patch released I fear they will give up too. So I call for a boycott of the new 'patch' until N3V understands we want a return to the old, community-based Trainz that worked so well until N3V messed it up. In TS2014 I hope for a product more like TRS2006, but with all the cool features in the newer versions like seasonal change, LOD, advanced engine scripting and such-and-such, but with plenty of combatibility with older content and none of this error checking rubbish which persists in Trainz 2009-onwards. I can only hope that N3V will listen to us, and return the nice, friendly community-driven Trainz of yesterday, and hopefully more users will join and Trainz will be become the definitive, user-driven, train simulator. So come on, join the revolution!

i dont want to sound rude, but why dont you shut up and give the 3rd party providers a chance to fix broken content instead of just going off the handle.

 

[socalwb909]

Same here. I scrawled my in Gimp. It's not as pretty as yours I'm sure.

I figured it's a placeholder if when the original content is updated this will not be an issue. Not a biggie as far as I'm concerned.

I've been using FileBoss to copy the "thumbnail.jpg or screenshot.jpg to multiple assets if they all have the same problem.
FileBoss allows you to copy once and paste in multiple locations. A real time saver for stuff like this. I did 250 assets in one shot.

-Mine is pretty simple:

-That fileboss sounds real interesting as I have almost 2400 assets to fix. I started with the ones that were deps to routes.

-Joe

 

[mick1960]

[...]First is that there has been a warning regarding thumbnails for at least 2 years[...]

Each person is of course entitled to his or her own opinion.[...]

To both of you and the rest of your team, thank you for your patience with this babbling bunch of hysteric mates here in this forum!

Okay, there are some bugs and flaws, but only somebody who does nothing, doesn't make mistakes...
I do not have to think a long time to find things I have to criticize, but in a descent and civilized way it might be much easier to come to a solution!


To all others, you should remember, that Auran/N3V has not dozens of developers at hand but only a small and engaged team. So come down and let them time to fix the trouble!

Mick!

 

[LieLestoSbrat]

Which part of the N2's needed fixing?

Was just an incorrect path and file name for the some locos with regards to the art icon file, also 1 shedplate texture was missing from the texture asset and a typo in the config of the texture asset.

The only other content that needs fixing is 2 very old class 37 reskins, that to be honest I'll let the community fix as in my view their are better quality versions of these by other authors. The other is the Merchant Navy loco which I need to look at.

Rob

 

[paulhobbs]

In TS2014 I hope for a product more like TRS2006, but with all the cool features in the newer versions like seasonal change, LOD, advanced engine scripting and such-and-such, but with plenty of combatibility with older content and none of this error checking rubbish which persists in Trainz 2009-onwards.

Oh yes, and those lovely unexplained crashes to the desktop when Trainz failed to digest the junk that some people put in config files. I really miss those.

So come on, join the revolution!

No thanks. Sometimes I think you must be completely Dagenham East (that's four stops beyond Barking if your not familar with the London Underground system).

Paul

 

[rwk]

I want to merge built-up routes together, but I don't want bugs. So, I'm sticking with 2010 for now until this gets fixed. Unpatched 12 crashes when merging built-up routes. Merge bug fixed in SP1, but lots of other bugs like new faulty errors with previously working content like some said, etc. So, the only way I can merge without the other bugs is to use 2010 for now. But I have a 12 only route I want to merge to others, impossible for now without SP1 but SP1 breaks things. How do I merge a 12 only route to another built-up route from 2010 without SP1? And if I import the 12 route to 2010 some of the content in the route doesn't show, and throws up.texture.txt not found errors and warnings. So, I'm stuck.

 

[PO45080]

Hi.
I for one dumped Railworks as this is a great useless piece of garbish I thought I was buying another great bit of work for Simulation playing instead what I got was a useless giant JIGSAW that had no instructions on where to put each piece once you got started.
We all can't be IT experts on computers that's why we expect them up at the top to get it right for us the first time round.
PO45080.

 

[shaneturner12]

I agree to a certain extent, but content creators (especially certain freeware and payware ones) must take part of the blame for this, by failing in some cases to get simple things like making sure all required files are present right.

Shane

 

[Pencil42]

Icontent creators (especially certain freeware and payware ones) must take part of the blame for this, by failing in some cases to get simple things like making sure all required files are present right.

Agreed, and the continually improving error checking helps us do this.

Curtis

 

[shaneturner12]

That is true. I know I've only created one piece of released content, but I do understand where N3V are coming from.

Shane

 

[dragonharh]

The only error I get is a trainz crashes wend I save a route after session marges. but all my stuff went in with SP1 with out an error to fix, I guess I got lucky.

 

[JCitron]

Agreed, and the continually improving error checking helps us do this.

Curtis

I agree too. And right now I'm fixing stuff that should have been done the correct way in the first place like incorrect paths for thumbnail images, incorrect parameters for the mode tag, missing mesh files, etc. A little bit of QA before uploading should be a requirement and this is what these changes are doing and all for the better.

John

 

[jimabbey]

I would NOT recommend Trainz to Anyone At this point. Well they Might be a small group, but If you are going to throw stuff out there For Purchase, It Should work correctly, otherwise Do NOT Put it out there! (((just saying)))) it would save a lot of heart aches, and bad feelings.N3V Just Fix what you have and Don't release Anything further unless you KNOW it is a consistent product

 

[rumour3]

The only version of Trainz I now have installed is TS12. SP1 is a delight I'm saving for the weekend so I reserve the right to post a completely different point of view on Monday but I've been with Trainz for a long time and so far I haven't seen any good reason to go backwards. TS12 quietly fixed a few things that for me were really annoying in TS10, and in particular the disappearing bogies and trains when viewed through an asset with transparency. It handles eye wateringly high poly counts and texture sizes that were unheard of in the days of 2004 and has materials that can make properly crafted assets look fantastic. In my opinion Trainz is heading in absolutely the right direction, and if more rigorous error checking helps to weed out assets that hurt performance or spoil the game experience in some way then bring it on, I say- even if my own stuff is in there. Assets without thumbnails, or with some generic picture or graphic that gives no idea what the asset is about are pretty much useless when it comes to finding stuff on the dls, so I can't see a problem with this being flagged as an error.

It would be helpful if N3V took documentation a bit more seriously so that creators had a better chance of understanding what might be flagged as a serious error in future versions, but the wiki is a good step in the right direction.

Cheers

R3