TS2010. Don't knock it before you try it !!!

[RoysTrainz]

my shredded answer 10 minutes ago talked about linux 4gb limits too

This isn't quite right. The theoretical limit is 4GB for a 32-bit process. In practical terms, 32-bit Windows will give you about 1.5GB per process under default configuration and 64-bit Windows will give you around 3GB per process.

This means that we're having no trouble at all on the 64-bit machines, but we're running right up against the limits on the 32-bit machines (and some times going a bit over, hence the delayed release date.)

cheers,

chris

Chris,

Auran instead of some mysterious file shredder giving more chance to fill his hunger for power, let this reply go through and open a wider discussion on linux 64bit systems versus windows. linux is in principle much more reliable over the years than any windows system. I agree with you're explanation but doubt you can find a fast and easy way out for the smaller and older 32bits systems.
2010 needs a different pair of shoes.

Its the tooth of time that tells its time for hardware upgrade to follow software.
Up to the 64bits release of trainz.

wonder if this one sees daylight

 

[RoysTrainz]

my shredded answer 10 minutes ago talked about linux 4gb limits too

-------------

 

[Ronayne]

All this computer talk is making me

.

 

[WindWalkr]

Chris,

Auran instead of some mysterious file shredder giving more chance to fill his hunger for power, let this reply go through and open a wider discussion on linux 64bit systems versus windows. linux is in principle much more reliable over the years than any windows system. I agree with you're explanation but doubt you can find a fast and easy way out for the smaller and older 32bits systems.
2010 needs a different pair of shoes.

Its the tooth of time that tells its time for hardware upgrade to follow software.
Up to the 64bits release of trainz.

wonder if this one sees daylight

There's a whole pile of different discussions to be had there.

We're unlikely to go full 64-bit on Trainz in the very near future - doing so is a fairly hefty engineering effort and results in a significant increase in memory usage and a reduction in overall performance due to the increased memory usage. We'd also have to maintain parallel 32-bit and 64-bit versions of the game (more effort) and limit the shipping product to whatever the 32-bit one can handle (less benefit.) Give it a few years and this may be more attractive, but at the moment it's mostly downsides and very little benefit.

Running on a 64-bit OS, on the other hand, is a major benefit to us because it raises some of the architectural limitations regarding how much memory we can access.

We don't have any linux junkies in-house, so we'd only look into a full linux port if we thought that there would be enough sales impact to pay for another engineer. This seems unlikely at the current time.

chris

 

[amigacooke]

This isn't quite right. The theoretical limit is 4GB for a 32-bit process. In practical terms, 32-bit Windows will give you about 1.5GB per process under default configuration and 64-bit Windows will give you around 3GB per process.

This means that we're having no trouble at all on the 64-bit machines, but we're running right up against the limits on the 32-bit machines (and some times going a bit over, hence the delayed release date.)

cheers,

chris

Should have used a decent OS like AmigaOS 4.1

(Runs for cover)

 

[meatloaf747]

This isn't quite right. The theoretical limit is 4GB for a 32-bit process. In practical terms, 32-bit Windows will give you about 1.5GB per process under default configuration and 64-bit Windows will give you around 3GB per process.
This means that we're having no trouble at all on the 64-bit machines, but we're running right up against the limits on the 32-bit machines (and some times going a bit over, hence the delayed release date.)
cheers, chris

(My apologies Chris. I posted this before I read your latest post).

Chris,
I understand the theoretical limits of a 32bit processor (being 4 gigs). What I'm talking about is the limitation of both a 32 bit & 64 bit OS's in relationship to gaming. My understanding is there is a 2gig Virtual Address Space limitation on 32bit OS/processors. I thought the only way to currently get above that limitation was LAA. (Large Address Aware 32-bit).

Are you trying to say that Auran has optimised TS2010 to get over this 2gig Virtual Address Space limitation by optimising it code (LARGEADDRESSAWARE flag in a 64-bit environment) so that it can know tap into that extra virtual address memory space above 2 gigs for Trainz. (LAA. - Basically circumventing the 2 GB virtual address space limitations).
If so, it would be one of the first half dozen gaming companies in the world to do so !!! This limitation in 32bit OS's has been around since Adam was a cowboy !!!
Please correct me if I'm wrong. TS2010 is still a 32bit game right. (It hasn't been re- written to run in a native 64-bit environment).
As I understand it, some of the new 09 (& 010) code has been re-written to take better advantage of a dual core processor. (That's what I've been reading in the forum).

Please don't get me wrong Chris. 64bit processors & OS's is the way of the future. I think everyone should be heading in that direction sooner or later. In fact, the sooner the better.
It's just a shame that most main stream hardware manufactures have been slack over the last 3-4 in bring out decent 64bit drivers for there hardware & peripherals.
Also until recently, software developers have been really slack as well and delayed optimising there programs/apps to take full advantage of the 64bit OS environment.

I've cut and paste a couple of paragraphs from the famous Mr Walbourn on Tomshardware site.

According to Walbourn, "the really big win for Crytek was Crysis’ 64-bit level editor, which made a significant difference in the quality of art rolled into the game. When the development team began work with its initial 32-bit editor, it ran into stability problems at around 1.7 GB of addressed space.
They then enabled the /LARGEADDRESSAWARE flag in a 64-bit environment and got up to 2.7 GB before encountering the same issue". - I assume that what you are trying to convey above Chris.

For those that aren't sure what the heavens I'm on about (& would like to know) read the 1st x 6 pages here; http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/64-bit-vista-gaming,2250-7.html
Cheers, Mac...

 

[pfx]

???

My PC has a whirring thing on the inside, a blue light and a button on the front. There are also a few cables feeding things in and out and an input device with lots and lots of square buttons on it and another one with a red light in the bottom and two clickers. I can look at things on a rectangular light box which displays various images, depending on what I do with the square buttons and clickers.

It's taken me years to work that much out. Please don't tell me there's more I should know...

Hehe.

 

[FootplatePhil]

TRS2006 didn't work well for me. Maybe shouldn't say that might sound like an Auran basher. Pointing out the obvious flaws in TRS2006 usually gets the response "works for me, no software is perfect, blah blah.."
Sure I'll try 2010 and give it a fair go, but if it's crap I'll say so, just like TRS2006 is crap.

2006 works for me, no software is perfect! Maybe I shouldn't say that, may sound like Auran fan-boying.

And now for the Blah blah blah..

TRS2006 remains my Trainz version of choice. Have just about every version of Trainz from V1, including TC3, TS2009. Have preordered 2010. Will give it a go. If I like it I will say so, just like I did when 2006 came out. If I dont like it.. well, 2006 works for me ! .

Not trying to be nasty, just trying to put a different view !


Phil

 

[knight42]

2006 works for me, no software is perfect!

TRS2006 remains my Trainz version of choice. Have just about every version of Trainz from V1, including TC3, TS2009. Have preordered 2010. Will give it a go. If I like it I will say so, just like I did when 2006 came out. If I dont like it.. well, 2006 works for me ! .

Phil

Same here; 06 is a great product, and I'll fall back to it if '10 doesn't make the grade. I'm optimistic that won't be the case, I'm even upgrading the PC instead of the Mac in readiness for '10. I don't get the hate for 2006.

 

[Ferngren]

???

My PC has a whirring thing on the inside, a blue light and a button on the front. There are also a few cables feeding things in and out and an input device with lots and lots of square buttons on it and another one with a red light in the bottom and two clickers. I can look at things on a rectangular light box which displays various images, depending on what I do with the square buttons and clickers.

It's taken me years to work that much out. Please don't tell me there's more I should know...

Hehe.

No there isn't. Just click 'n' press - it works. As for address-space, I've got plenty of that in my phonebook, then I'll bring out a notepad and a pen...

I'm not so impressed with 64bit after two years. Nervous system. With Crysis there's not much difference between the two and can be fixed with an autoexec for graphics in 32bit. Crysis uses only 1,6 to 1,7 GB of memory regardless and is heavier on graphics than cpu+memory in game-mode. The Sandbox Editor however is another story...

 

[WindWalkr]

Are you trying to say that Auran has optimised TS2010 to get over this 2gig Virtual Address Space limitation by optimising it code (LARGEADDRESSAWARE flag in a 64-bit environment) so that it can know tap into that extra virtual address memory space above 2 gigs for Trainz. (LAA. - Basically circumventing the 2 GB virtual address space limitations).

Yes,TS2009 and TS2010 are both large-address-aware. The processes are 32-bit, but we'll get more out of a 64-bit OS (or a 32-bit OS with /3GB) than we will out of a vanilla 32-bit OS.

It's just a shame that most main stream hardware manufactures have been slack over the last 3-4 in bring out decent 64bit drivers for there hardware & peripherals.

I agree, but I think that we've already reached the tipping-point here. I would no longer install a 32-bit OS on any new hardware. (Whereas few people could say this during XP days.)


chris

 

[steve123]

2010 late

auran promised 2010 on the 16th of november ,you mean to tell me that you people didnt bother to check to see how 2010 would run ,maybe that shows how good the product really is ? after all first impression is really what makes or brakes you isnt it ,,,so i waited for the 16th to roll around hopping to download 2010 as i had paid for it believing it would be ready on the 16th ,
shatterd i was to find an email basicly stating that someone hasent bothered to test the game,so has misled a lot of people.
auran remind me a little like the public transport always runing late or broken down ,after a while you get sick of the stuff ups and catch a bus or take your own car!!!!!!!! there is need for concern here if i owned auran

 

[paulhobbs]

there is need for concern here if i owned auran

I think you are dead right there.

Paul

 

[meatloaf747]

Yes,TS2009 and TS2010 are both large-address-aware. The processes are 32-bit, but we'll get more out of a 64-bit OS (or a 32-bit OS with /3GB) than we will out of a vanilla 32-bit OS.
I agree, but I think that we've already reached the tipping-point here. I would no longer install a 32-bit OS on any new hardware. (Whereas few people could say this during XP days.) chris

Chris,
Thanks for the clarification. I would agree that MS & hardware manufactures have finally "seen the light" and that 64bit OS's will shortly become the norm, rather than the exception. Finally.
Windows 7 64bit I'm sure will really start to gain momentum in the coming months. Great to see Auran recommending 64bit OS's over 32bit OS's. Certainly is the way of the future...
Once again, thanks for clarifying that both 09 & 010 are both taking advantage of LAA.
Cheers, Mac...

Steve123 (lounge lizard). - Please just read this post an then you will understand the reason why Auran delayed launching TS2010; http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=48201 - Thanks...
If after you have read "Spiffy" post and still want to comment. Great !!! - Well, atleast they will be a more informed comments.
Happy Trainzing. Cheers, Mac...

 

[RRSignal]

Yes,TS2009 and TS2010 are both large-address-aware. The processes are 32-bit, but we'll get more out of a 64-bit OS (or a 32-bit OS with /3GB) than we will out of a vanilla 32-bit OS.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but you had better stick with XP and please lose the mentality of developing for the latest service pack/OS. Otherwise just stop future development right now.

Vista was a bomb. Frankly, in my professional experience, it made Windows Me look hot. From all I've heard, Windows 7 is a major improvement, but Windows 7 is wearing the noose Vista tied around it's neck. I don't know of any business users who even seriously considered Vista, and I only know of one consumer offhand who wanted it, rather than had it put on her computer because she didn't have a choice. Of course, nothing I'm saying is news to anyone, just reiterating something that needs to be reiterated.

XP-64 compatibility is a good happy medium, make sure it's there. But development for 32-bit XP with SP3 was, IMO, a very bad move. it undeniably would have been if Auran did not service a niche market: I cannot tell you how many people would have not purchased your product (were they train buffs) because they don't want to $@&k with what works.

Being on the "bleeding edge" is great, but I want Trainz to be off-the-charts successful. That typically means holding back on specs a bit.

 

[WindWalkr]

I don't know of any business users who even seriously considered Vista, and I only know of one consumer offhand who wanted it, rather than had it put on her computer because she didn't have a choice.

Lucky that we're not targeting business users then

In all seriousness; the min-spec is for gauging compatibility, and the recommended spec is for gauging performance. If you have a min-spec machine, the game will run, but don't expect to turn up all the settings.

chris

 

[martinvk]

Been using TS2009 in Vista-64 without any problems. 12 GB of RAM probably helps. It runs smooth and no crashing, so I'm delighted to read that Auran has been taking this into account in their development of Trainz.

As for any minor delays, anyone who is so discombobulated because it didn't come on the announced day needs to get a life. Sheesh, it's a game people. You would think the sky was falling from the noise after the announcement was made.

Can't remember the number of threads that raked Auran over the coals, accusing them of rushing previous releases. Now they announce a minor delay and they can't release the next version fast enough.

 

[RRSignal]

Yes,TS2009 and TS2010 are both large-address-aware. The processes are 32-bit, but we'll get more out of a 64-bit OS (or a 32-bit OS with /3GB) than we will out of a vanilla 32-bit OS.

Can you confirm is TS2009 and TS2010 will actually support the 3GB space afforded by the /3GB switch?

 

[john_goddard]

Quote: " Been using TS2009 in Vista-64 without any problems. 12 GB of RAM probably helps. It runs smooth and no crashing, so I'm delighted to read that Auran has been taking this into account in their development of Trainz. "

I have had the same experience with Windows7 64bit, using just 4gb of memory. We must keep up with progress, man would still be relying on horses for transport if we had all been stick-in -the-muds!!! John.

 

[jhdale65]

2010

I'll be buying the boxed version ( I sort of like getting a box and manual hehe) Warts and all, I am sure its going to be great. Like the OP said, All games/simulators etc come with bugs and issues. Part of gaming isn't it?

I myself are looking forward to Trainz 2010.

Cheers

Trent

Well said! Looking forward to! nice to see another Magpie on here