TS12 wants to save "New Route"

[nicky9499]

Welcome everybody to another episode of "What The Hell Is Trainz Up To Now???"

Ok, so I was working on a session. Lotta work done today, obsessive attention to layers as usual so everything is in the correct place. Added a number of SetJunction rules underneath Trigger Check rules, yada yada the usual stuff. Also edited some default switch positions - in Route layer of course. Now at the end of the day I hit CTRL+S as I always do, but today it asks if I would like to save "New Route".

What?

I click through the main menu instead of CTRL+S just to be sure. Same thing. I decide to "Save As", fully prepared to go through this process again. It asks if I would like to overwrite Quahog Sub 3.1.3 and I say yes. Trainz proceeds to save and the bloody thing has been going for half an hour now. Don't want to force quit it in fear of losing data, but it's also midnight, I need to get up early tomorrow.

What. Is. Going. On. N3V. God. Dammit.


Not sure if this is somewhat related, but earlier today TS12 was also being a major cock. I was adding driver commands in Surveyor and when I tried to add another one the whole thing froze. I happened to have Task Manager open on the second screen the memory usage was suddenly going up very quickly at a steady rate. I have 8GB memory and had to force quit when the total usage hit 7.5GB to stop it from locking up my entire system. Trainz.exe itself was gobbling up more than 3.5GB. Restarted Trainz, no DB repair, everything was fine after that.

 

[JCitron]

Hi Nicky,

I suggest backing up your data and verifying that your drive is okay. Long saves can be caused by iffy drives even if this is not. This could also be a sign of low disk space too, especially the long waits while doing things.

John

 

[nicky9499]

Hi John, it's been over an hour now and I'm still seeing the spinning pinwheel. TS12 appears to be completely frozen. The drive it is on still has about a 100GB of free space. Should I leave the machine running overnight in hopes it can somehow sort itself out or do I force quit it now and try to recover lost data? It's hugely frustrating such things occur whenever I get a truckload of work done on the route or sessions.

The most important question here of course, is what's going on with Trainz and how does one prevent it in the future.
The next most important question is probably whether or not T2 will also feature the same egregious database system.

 

[JCitron]

Hi Nicky,

I'd leave the system well enough alone and let the drive finish writing.

Do you have "show database processes" checked in the options? This would indicate if Trainz its self isn't possibly verifying data which can cause the long delays with things such as writing, reading, saving, etc.

The data system is not as bad as you think. This is actually SQL but with their own add-ons. The problem though is there is so little communication back to the end-user so we don't know what's happening and end up killing processes.

John

 

[nicky9499]

Two hours already. I'm going to bed. The screen is totally black now, I can't see Surveyor anymore but the spinning pinwheel is still there. Database process windows are hidden "behind" Trainz on my main display so I can't see it and I don't want to risk Alt-Tabbing. Will post back in the morning.

 

[deneban]

I happened to have Task Manager open on the second screen the memory usage was suddenly going up very quickly at a steady rate.

This may be after the fact, but what was the CPU percentage for TS12? If you have zero % trainz and taddaemon processes, you can kill without fear of interrupting your save (its already toast).

The most important question here of course, is what's going on with Trainz and how does one prevent it in the future.

Like any work you do, save frequently. I exclusively use "save as" with incrementally numbered names to defend against problems like this.

 

[nicky9499]

This may be after the fact, but what was the CPU percentage for TS12? If you have zero % trainz and taddaemon processes, you can kill without fear of interrupting your save (its already toast).
Like any work you do, save frequently. I exclusively use "save as" with incrementally numbered names to defend against problems like this.

I do save often. In fact I saved about 15 minutes before I stopped for the night and it went without a hitch. The problem with Save As is demonstrated in the thread I linked to; wherein every Save As is retardedly given a new kuid.

---

Ok, so I ended the process. It appears the sh|t has hit the fan; immediately restarted Trainz and launched CMP, no database repair, but I have a "New Asset" with a new kuid, size unknown, type Miscellaneous and with nothing but a config and mapfile.tmp in it. My route itself is also screwed over it seems (so much for save often). Quahog Sub 3.1.3 is also size unknown, type Route, has all the appropriate contents (bmk/gnd/lyr/obs/trc/trk) but the config file has only 1 line:

asset-filename "kuid 366297 100060"

Proceeded to start Trainz. Route shows up but thumbnail is gone. Devastating error message:

ERROR - MAP IS MISSING OR DAMAGED
Your selected route is damaged or has missing files.
Return to the menu and select a new route.

I'm not sure whether or laugh or cry.

 

[clam1952]

Don't panic, It should be in the Userdata backups, if you have saved a lot there should be quite a few of them with incomprehensible names.

 

[deneban]

I do save often. In fact I saved about 15 minutes before I stopped for the night and it went without a hitch. The problem with Save As is demonstrated in the thread I linked to; wherein every Save As is retardedly given a new kuid.

Ok so you only lost 15 minutes worth. Thats not too bad. Don't forget to try the backup folder like clam said. BTW Surveyor also has a periodic autosave feature.

Save As means make a new file. Simultaneously, it is against the sims protocol to have two of the same kuid in the database. So naturally it figures save as must make a new kuid. You can influence the final kuid easily for routes and sessions since they are at the top of the hierarchy.

 

[beckster181]

My Latest Bug Bear is that when i do try to save as or save a new route it wont show up at all until you go into content manager under user content and find the untitled items and open for edit and then commit them and marvel of marvel there is the new content or saved item just a heads up for any having this similar problem

 

[deneban]

My Latest Bug Bear is that when i do try to save as or save a new route it wont show up at all until you go into content manager under user content and find the untitled items and open for edit and then commit them and marvel of marvel there is the new content or saved item just a heads up for any having this similar problem

You have to exit the simulator before running Content Manager, they are not designed to be used simultaneously.

 

[nicky9499]

I imported a backup and overwrote, my route is safe and sound now. Only issue, pretty harmless but annoying me is the "New Asset" that cannot be deleted.

@deneban: Yes, "Save As" means save new file, but a "Save As" followed by "Overwrite" means, well...overwriting the file. No other software in this world behaves likes Trainz does. Not Office, not Adobe CS, not Final Cut Studio, not 3DSMax and whatever.

 

[bobill]

I agree with incremental saves. But I've been wondering about the following.

I am in surveyor and make change to Route 2. I "save as Route 3". After the "save as" is done, I am returned to Surveyor. I then place a loco on the route and click on "save". I then exit Surveyor and see that Route 2 is highlighted. Did the newly placed loco get saved to Route 2 or Route 3? (I think that the way most software operates, the loco should be in Route 3.)

 

[deneban]

I imported a backup and overwrote, my route is safe and sound now. Only issue, pretty harmless but annoying me is the "New Asset" that cannot be deleted.

Great. Then new asset can be deleted by extraordinary means.

@deneban: Yes, "Save As" means save new file, but a "Save As" followed by "Overwrite" means, well...overwriting the file. No other software in this world behaves likes Trainz does. Not Office, not Adobe CS, not Final Cut Studio, not 3DSMax and whatever.

I believe we are talking "Save As"...new route and session, when a new name us supplied by the user. Yes overwrite does mean overwrite a file, but in TS12, "overwriting" is not done in the OS sense:

If you only modified the route, it really doesn't overwrite the session file. It creates a new session file with the same filename containing the same exact session KUID that now points to the new route KUID. Only the route takes on the new name supplied. It deletes the old session file.

For the same "Save As" initiation (supplying a new name) when you modified the session ONLY, you do get a new session kuid with again the same filename pointing to the same old route kuid. Again, not an overwrite, just a delete and save again.

Therefore the only way to get a new session filename is to "save as" ..."save new session" and supply a new name​

Agree no program acts like this maybe its because TS12 has a unique functionality? If you create a flow chart of the options and alternatives that TS12 saving allows, it makes more sense than not.

 

[deneban]

I agree with incremental saves. But I've been wondering about the following.

I am in surveyor and make change to Route 2. I "save as Route 3". After the "save as" is done, I am returned to Surveyor. I then place a loco on the route and click on "save". I then exit Surveyor and see that Route 2 is highlighted. Did the newly placed loco get saved to Route 2 or Route 3? (I think that the way most software operates, the loco should be in Route 3.)

You haven't given us enough info. Was the loco placed in a route layer or a session layer? Highlighting just shows were your cursor is in the route and session selection screen, it has nothing to do with what was saved last.

 

[bobill]

Actually, I'd be interested in the results in both cases - route layer and session layer.

 

[deneban]

Actually, I'd be interested in the results in both cases - route layer and session layer.

The result is the cursor is returned to the same position as you left it prior to loading surveyor. When you exit surveyor, the same item is highlighted.

 

[bobill]

So did the newly placed loco get saved to Route 2 or Route 3?

 

[deneban]

So did the newly placed loco get saved to Route 2 or Route 3?

If you placed the loco on a route layer and did not change the session, hit "save as" and supplied the name "route 3," the loco was saved in route "Route 3," and the session has been rewritten to point to its new parent "Route 3."

If you placed the loco on a session layer, and did not change the route, hit "save as" and supplied the name "route 3," the loco was saved in session "Route 3" whose parent is a new route file called "Route 3."

"Route 2" would be highlighted when you exit surveyor because thats how you entered surveyor.

 

[bobill]

Thanks. Your answer is correct but did not address my original question.

Sometimes I am creating or editing a session and click on Save and am prompted to save the route, which I do not want to do. If I encounter any future problems, I won't know if I accidentally introduced an error into the route. So I exit Surveyor and start working on my session again.

Suppose I am working on Session 2 and click on Save. Any changes will be saved to Session 2. When I exit Surveyor, Session 2 is highlighted. Now I return to editing the session and place a few more consists and Save (to Session 2). Suddenly, I get an idea for a new session with a consist in a different location. So I place the new consist and Save As Session 3. Now I place one loco and Save. Does the loco get saved to Session 2 or Session 3? (In other words, after I have saved Session 3 and continue working, and then click on Save, do the additional changes get saved to Session 2 or Session 3. Is there any indication in Surveyor about the name of the route/session you are working on?)