Trs2010 Can not install Patch Sp3 Due to XP Sp2!!!

[jjeff1955]

Another fine failure with the Trs2010. I just decided to give the Trs2010 another try on a high end non internet computer and the Trainz 2010 installed and starts up ok. But when I try to install the Trs2010 Sp3 it refuses and it says to install XP Sp3 and I will never ever, ever, ever, ever do that because all that XP Sp3 is nothing but trouble for XP and it has a nothing useful for performance, just a bunch of security updates that I do not need on a non internet computer! I have a legal copy of XP Pro sp2 and Auran why do you require Sp3 to install this patch thats just not right! I will certainly admit that I do not know everything that Microsoft is doing with that Sp3 but as a computer tech I had to uninstall Sp3 on older computers that had automaticaly updated as they crashed after the Sp3 was installed. Drivers failed and so on. I have done a lot of research on Sp3 and all I found was Security & more security addons. Why does the Trs2010 start up and run on XP sp2 now, and why does The patch Sp3 need it? I am opened minded to find out. I have invested a lot of time on this gaming computer, even did the Vista look to it with the icons and Glass task bar. Sp3 will rip that right out of my settings do to replacing the system32 Shellstyle.dlls.:'(

 

[jeffmorris]

What about Windows 7?

 

[shaneturner12]

Unfortunately, (I know about this as TS2009 has the same problem with SP2/3), one of the changes that XP SP3 makes is required for that patch to install.

As said on the post above though, Windows 7 may be worth a look. Unfortunately, though, you will need to make a compromise somewhere if you want to install that patch.

Actually, SP3 has more than just security updates. I know with laptops that SP3 is required to connect to WPA2 wireless networks, although most of the changes in SP3 are behind the scenes.

I know I may not have TS2010, but this problem also happens in TS2009 (which I do have).

Shane

 

[jjeff1955]

Auran has lost me as a customer!

I do not want to fool around with Windows 7 after I got XP Pro to work so good. Windows 7 Is a memory hog and I am not going to add 6 gigs of memory just to satisfy Microsoft and The Trs2010. I breaking my addiction to Trainz and going back to Flightsim and other games. Thats That! :wave:

 

[ZecMurphy]

Good Evening jjeff1955

As Shane has mentioned. The patch utility for TS2010 (and SP2 and newer for TS2009) requires Windows XP Service Pack 3. The patcher uses some changes that were made in XP SP3 (personally, I saw some gains in performance with SP3, amongst other things) to help with the stability of the installation of the patch.

We did make this clear in the minimum requirements for TS2010, stating that Windows XP SP3 is required at a minimum. If you do not wish to upgrade to SP3, then this is your choice, however this is the minimum requirement for TS2010.

In general, we do recommend that you install (and hence run) the latest updates for your edition of Windows. In particular if you are installing 3rd party content.

 

[jjeff1955]

Thanks Zec you are a kind person and trying to help.

But I do not want to make microsoft changes to my very reliable gaming computer just for Trainz. I will keep my addiction going with the older TRS2006 for now. Maybe someday I will try again with the Trs2010 but not for now as it still has many issues. Thanks Zec for your replies.

 

[RRSignal]

I do not want to fool around with Windows 7 after I got XP Pro to work so good. Windows 7 Is a memory hog and I am not going to add 6 gigs of memory just to satisfy Microsoft and The Trs2010. I breaking my addiction to Trainz and going back to Flightsim and other games. Thats That! :wave:

I'm with you on this. I don't feel the need to put 8 gigs in my system to get the same level of performance I got with 4 gigs on my XP machine. Plus, like you, I like my gaming rigs to run offline for performance and security reasons, so Vista/W7 isn't really an option anyway.

 

[Gandalf0444]

Why are people so resistant to downloading and installing any and all Windows updates, especially those that make using the computer a little bit safer from viruses etc. It is very simple to install them, you don't even have to do anything but wait, it will do everything for you.. Even RESTART the computer when it is done.

However when Auran doesn't release a Service pack within a certain amount of time people B and moan about it, but yet when the company who made your computer releases service packs to help YOU, you never install them because you can't be bothered.

 

[djt]

I will never ever, ever, ever, ever do that because all that XP Sp3 is nothing but trouble for XP

Really that’s news to me as I’ve installed XP SP3 on at least a dozen machines since its release and never had any issues with it. When properly installed just like any other Windows service pack there shouldn’t be any issues.

I have invested a lot of time on this gaming computer

Which begs the question, if it’s a “gaming computer” why are you running a 32-bit OS? As any “computer tech” will know the norm today for a gaming setup is at least 4GB of RAM with a 64-bit CPU. Most decent video cards today also have at least 1GB of RAM on-board. A 1GB video card along with 4GB or more of RAM will just get crippled by a 32-bit OS.

 

[martinvk]

Gamer machine?

When I looked up gaming computer, one major online store was selling

Gamer Extreme 907i Desktop PC - Intel Core i7 860 2.8GHz, 8GB DDR3, 1TB SATA II, DVDRW, 1GB NVIDIA GeForce GTS250, Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit

Gamer Extreme 970SLC Desktop PC - Intel Core i7 930 2.8GHZ, 6GB DDR3, 1TB HDD, ATI Radeon HD 5770, DVDRW, Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit, liquid cooled

Gamer Extreme 907i Desktop PC - Intel Core i7 860 2.8GHz, 8GB DDR3, 1TB SATA II, DVDRW, 1GB NVIDIA GeForce GTS250, Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit

So what some call a gamer machine, others have different adjectives for.

If you're happy with what you got, fine, just don't expect technology to stand still. If the patcher now requires SP3, then either upgrade or don't patch. I don't want Trainz patching to be delayed or compromised.

 

[RRSignal]

Why are people so resistant to downloading and installing any and all Windows updates, especially those that make using the computer a little bit safer from viruses etc.

This is a common myth. In reality, it's relatively rare for OS-level exploits to be exploited. Usually, the exploit happens in a far higher-level process - usually the browser, Flash, Java. And the highest-level of all is the worst offender - the person sitting behind the keyboard.

 

[Gandalf0444]

This is a common myth. In reality, it's relatively rare for OS-level exploits to be exploited. Usually, the exploit happens in a far higher-level process - usually the browser, Flash, Java. And the highest-level of all is the worst offender - the person sitting behind the keyboard.

Not a myth at all really. Why else would microsoft release hot patches that are made right after a new exploit is found Microsoft releases something within a few weeks to close the security gap. I have seen many times OS exploits be exploited, if there were no exploits then why would microsoft release patches and service packs at all?

 

[RRSignal]

Not a myth at all really. Why else would microsoft release hot patches that are made right after a new exploit is found Microsoft releases something within a few weeks to close the security gap. I have seen many times OS exploits be exploited, if there were no exploits then why would microsoft release patches and service packs at all?

They have to. Thanks to media reports (largely deserved), Windows is seen as a buggy OS with holes you can drive a truck through. Look at the recent (and well-publicized) lnk and pif vulnerabilities; in order to get the sploit onto someone's computer would essentially require the same social-engineering tactics that would get someone to open an EXE i.e. to download and open a file, albeit without the executable warnings SP2+ provides.

 

[Gandalf0444]

They have to. Thanks to media reports (largely deserved), Windows is seen as a buggy OS with holes you can drive a truck through. Look at the recent (and well-publicized) lnk and pif vulnerabilities; in order to get the sploit onto someone's computer would essentially require the same social-engineering tactics that would get someone to open an EXE i.e. to download and open a file, albeit without the executable warnings SP2+ provides.

Exactly my point. They know there are holes that can be taken advantage of, and have been in the past. So people not updating the computers to the fullest to "minimize" the threat are as bad as Microsoft is for letting as many holes get through in the first place. However as you said most things are indeed caused by the HUMAN operating the computer, not the other way round.

 

[jjeff1955]

No Holes Here!

This is a non internet computer for gaming, so why would I want to patch more holes with Sp3 when I have a perfectly good working computer that is faster than I can click my mouse. Just more stuff to install for no reason. But Auran makes us load more service packs that is not needed for a never on the internet computer. Should be an option to just get the needed MSI Installer instead of loading a whole Sp3.

 

[djt]

This is a non internet computer for gaming, so why would I want to patch more holes with Sp3 when I have a perfectly good working computer that is faster than I can click my mouse.​

So you are are telling us that you are a “computer tech”, but you've had problems with successfully installing XP SP3? I would have to question any computer tech that doesn't keep their OS up to date whether it's frequently on line or not.


So it's a perfectly good working computer as far as you know, right? How about some specs and some examples of the performance you are getting with TS2010 to prove it's a good working computer?

 

[jjeff1955]

Yes I am a 55 year old Tech that has a lot of expierence.

But I do not everything! Service pack 3 was a bad issue a few years ago as my customers would bring me computers that the sound stoped working after a the auto update to Sp3. Problems where wireless, Nic Lan failure and running very slow. Then I would uninstall the sp3 and watch the computer come back to life and the hardware would start working again, but I found out that Sp3 was not working well with older computers. As far as my specs are I did install Sp3 on my gaming computer and lost some frame rates in the bench mark testing and explorer would hang on startup so I uninstalled sp3 and frame rates came back and explorer stoped failing. I guess just a bad feeling in my thoughts to get over with. Computer Specs are as follows.

X-Navigaor Aluminum case for good cooling, 6 Fans.
Crosshair II Formula Mother Board PCIE 2.0 with bios updated,
Phenom 965 Quad core cpu, Zalman CNPS9700 NT fan/Temp avaerage 31c,
4 gigs of Crucial Balistix Tracer memory. 3 gig usable XP Pro,
Nvidia Evga GTX 295 Co Op SLI card, SLI turned off for older games/Temp average no load 42c to load 58c,
4 hard drive in raid-0 /W.D. Raptors 310mbs read marks HD Tach,
Creative XFI Platinum sound card and hub,
ABS Tagan BZ Series 100 Watt Power Supply/Modular,

AquaMark Test score 184,000,
Crysis frame rates maxed settings 38fps,
Flightsim x 58fps average,
Halflife 180+fps,
Trainz 2006 runs smooth except in high content area,
Trainz 2009 and 2010 runs choppy and studders even in low content areas.

I am not a programer but I do know computers inside and out.
I also repair electronic equipment TVs and such.
I do not respect the fact that people will question my abilites. When I have done the impossible at times when it comes to repairing broken and fried computers.
I do question myself about Sp3 when I do not need the security as it is never ever on the internet and out of danger from idiot virus makers and hackers!
One thing I can not fix is the TRS2010. Lol.

 

[djt]

Service pack 3 was a bad issue a few years ago as my customers would bring me computers that the sound stoped working after a the auto update to Sp3. Problems where wireless, Nic Lan failure and running very slow. Then I would uninstall the sp3 and watch the computer come back to life and the hardware would start working again, but I found out that Sp3 was not working well with older computers. As far as my specs are I did install Sp3 on my gaming computer and lost some frame rates in the bench mark testing and explorer would hang on startup so I uninstalled sp3 and frame rates came back and explorer stoped failing. I guess just a bad feeling in my thoughts to get over with.

How exactly did you install it?


As I mentioned earlier I've installed it at least a dozen times on various machines, customers and my own without any issues.

As with any Windows service pack the best most consistent issue free way to install SP3 is on a fresh OS install.

4 gigs of Crucial Balistix Tracer memory. 3 gig usable XP Pro,
Nvidia Evga GTX 295 Co Op SLI card​

With 4 GB of system RAM and over 1GB of RAM on the video card any reason why you are crippling this system with a 32-bit OS?

Crysis frame rates maxed settings 38fps,
Flightsim x 58fps average,
Halflife 180+fps,
Trainz 2006 runs smooth except in high content area,
Trainz 2009 and 2010 runs choppy and studders even in low content areas.​

That doesn't really tell us much. At what resolution and AA/AF level are you running? Posting screen shots with FRAPS running would be more convincing.​

 

[jjeff1955]

I did not attempt to intall it again.

After I had those issues. When I originally installed it, it was on a clean install of XP Pro with a complete format but I did the test before I installed it. Maybe that is wrong because of all of the drivers are installed before the fact. As far as going with the 64bit os, whats the point as will Trainz perform better? I did this test about a year ago and I did see better graphics in Flightsim but not much framerate improvement. Most games do not take advantage of it. Is Trainz2010 64bit ready? I know that my 4 gigs of memory will be there for me in a 64bit os. All of the games that I have are of the 32bit nature anyway. I stand corrected with the AquaMark test that was with default video settings. With the aliasing turn on to 16xQ and multisample I got 168,000 score. I do know that AquaMark is way outdated. I was using fraps for the other game tests. I love that Fraps. You got me thinking of installing a 64bit os on my other computer and do some more testing.

 

[shaneturner12]

jjeff1955:

If your hardware/software supports it, a 64-bit OS is a good option (for both stability and performance reasons) - but do read below for OS-specific info.

Also, (and no, I am not questioning you in any way), I found that I had to turn off my antivirus/system guard program whilst installing SP3 for XP on my previous system - and SP3 is more than security updates, it also has some major stability updates - see http://support.microsoft.com/kb/946480 for the full list. (I'm not sure which one, but one of those fixes makes the patching process for TS2009/TS2010 more stable (and anyway, SP3 is a minimum requirement for TS2010).

On the other side of the coin, (info from http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...FamilyID=68c48dad-bc34-40be-8d85-6bb4f56f5110), according to the PDF download from that page, SP3 for XP was designed only for 32-bit operating systems - I guess the problems that some people may have had with XP SP3 may be due to them running a 64-bit OS?

Shane