TrainzDEV Wiki Usefulness

[PEV]

The TrainzDEV Wiki is supposed to be the source of information and learning material for Trainz Content Creators.

I see that the "Powers that Be" at N3V have removed the links to the Content Creation Guide for Trainz Classics on the pretext that it is outdated. This is correct for some asset kinds BUT the bulk of the material in it is relevant to today's asset creation, and most of those bits that are outdated are flagged as such.

Is the early Trainz community philosophy, where the community provided most of the content, now dead? Don't N3V want us to know anything about content creation?

At present, there is insufficient data in the Wiki for any one to learn content creation or to sort out problems.

Most existing Wiki pages are just a list of facts about the various aspects without any examples of usage. Don't people understand that it's the examples that facilitate the most learning because the facts have been placed in a more familiar environment.

The CCGTC (with all its faults) still provides reasonable examples for most asset kinds. So why cut the links completely so no one can find it?

I admit that I have a vested interest here. I spent a couple of hundred hours putting the CCGTC on to the Wiki. I strongly believe that the information there-in is more help than NO INFO AT ALL.

Finally I have been watching with interest to see any additions to the Wiki How-To-Guide pages. Of the 19 pages available, 6 of them are by me. A little disproportionate in my view; it should more like 6 out of 100. I don't hold a mortgage on Trainz knowledge. There are many out there with far more knowledge than myself. So where are all the other contributors from the community and especially from N3V?

 

[Euphod]

Allow me to add a conspiracy theory to your thread: CCG links removed? Massive sale at new site? New DLS? Obviously N3V has developed a new version of Traniz based on a new graphics engine. All current content will be useless, and all information about creating that content is now obsolete. The new release will drop before Christmas, and will have so many of the features everyone's been begging for, they aren't worried about supporting the older versions.

Could happen.

 

[pcas1986]

As someone who has defended the TrainDev WiKi on many occasions, I find this rather disconcerting. Just last week I stated that the "WiKi'ed" version of the CCG was on the site. In my view, despite being out of date, the CCG still provides a structured approach to content creation. The link was in the "How To" guides which always struck me as an odd place. My preference would be to have the link on the main page - perhaps under the existing heading "Content Creation Guides".

In my view, many of the problems faced by budding content creators is that there is no "top down" or systematic approach to content creation in the TrainzDev WiKi. Perhaps this is a fundamental flaw of the WiKi system itself as the "real world" WiKi is chaotic.

 

[Lots_Trains]

Hi PEV

I agree 100% with you there, my 1st stop is always the CCG then to the DEVwiki to get any updates. The CCG are so much more helpful.

Sorry I'm not much good at putting stuff in there though.

Allow me to add a conspiracy theory to your thread: CCG links removed? Massive sale at new site? New DLS? Obviously N3V has developed a new version of Traniz based on a new graphics engine. All current content will be useless, and all information about creating that content is now obsolete. The new release will drop before Christmas, and will have so many of the features everyone's been begging for, they aren't worried about supporting the older versions.

hahaha love it, have to agree with some of your stuff there, but the "new graphics engine" ya dreaming mate. But I would say the new version of Trainz is any day now, the way the price of TS12 has been plumeting and the new sales site, Looking back at the past releases of Trainz they always tend to come out around Sept Oct, So I reckon its any day now.

"new graphics engine" :hehe: pigs will fly 1st

Cheers

Lots

 

[Dinorius_Redundicus]

That's the first time I've ever seen "TrainzDev Wiki" and "usefulness" in the same sentence!

 

[amigacooke]

Looking back at the past releases of Trainz they always tend to come out around Sept Oct, So I reckon its any day now.

What this forum really needs is a nice 'speculation' emote.

 

[Tony_Hilliam]

The problem with conspiracy theories is that they tend to look at a subset of data and create a plausible explanation of events based on that data alone. However, by missing important elements of the "whole" they fail to stand up to detailed analysis or to the "facts" known by insiders. (i.e. how do you keep thousands of people quiet about creating staged moon landings in sheds?)

The Trainz team are busy planning for and creating the future of Trainz, which will include updated graphics. "Soon" is probably not the right word for that time frame.

Regarding 3rd party content, there are probably more people working on 3rd party content now than there ever has been in the past. Regarding disappearing links, when did they disappear? The wiki is not as high on the priority list as some would like I'm sure, but it will receive a good deal of attention when the time is right.

And right now, the new shop has been the focus for our web team since sales is what determines the scope of the Trainz future. Mobile has been the recent focus for the dev team, and that has created a strong new sales channel for us.

3rd party content and downloadable content is the current "focus" (as much as you can narrow 100 differing tasks into a single "box"). But don't forget improved support, better community management, updates for TS12, Mac .. the list goes on.

There's a lot happening and the Trainz community, whilst not the same "forum family" it once was, is bigger than ever before. Daily Trainz iPad users outnumber PC users by a significant margin (but sadly at $1-5 per copy, they don't win the revenue stakes by as much).

With the limited resources at our disposal, it is always a juggling act to keep everyone happy. Hopefully we'll surprise the doubters with details of our upcoming plans.

 

[Euphod]

The problem with conspiracy theories is that they tend to look at a subset of data and create a plausible explanation of events based on that data alone. However, by missing important elements of the "whole" they fail to stand up to detailed analysis or to the "facts" known by insiders.

Yes, but they sure can be fun!

 

[amigacooke]

"Soon" is probably not the right word for that time frame.

Soon™ is always the right word for Auran/N3V.

updates for TS12, Mac .. the list goes on.

Daily Trainz iPad users outnumber PC users by a significant margin (but sadly at $1-5 per copy, they don't win the revenue stakes by as much).

Looks like the Windows users are going to have to join us OSX users with the begging bowl, hoping for updates to fall from the table of iOS and Android.

 

[sniper297]

"Don't people understand that it's the examples that facilitate the most learning because the facts have been placed in a more familiar environment."

Yeah, I understand that;

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?74143-Examples-please!

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?84519-TS12-quot-required-quot-tags

Given a known good asset I can nearly always reverse engineer WHY it works and apply that to one that doesn't, but instead of providing assets that meet the standards of the new error checking subroutines they merely exempt all built in content from error checking. Get an error message "required tag yadayada is missing and has been set to default", no clue on where or how to add the tag, so find an example among the built in assets that DOES have the "required" tag - sorry about your luck Chuck, if any asset exists that passes that particular test it's not built into the game. I could easily live without wikis if I just had built in assets that met the same standards they want ME to meet.

 

[Lots_Trains]

which will include updated graphics. "Soon" is probably not the right word for that time frame.

Yup that's what I said, pigs will fly. Its easy to say updated graphics are in the plans, so would going to 64 bit, and going to true multi thread capability, pretty sure that will all happen in the next 10 to 15 years, Soon I don't think so. Or as we say here in New Zealand "Yeah right" (nzders will get that)

Still think you gonna drop ya bundle sooner than later (any day now) unfortunatly another rehash.

Oh I just love a good bit of speculation makes life interesting.:hehe:

I'm losing my faith a bit in new Trainz stuff, Tony while you have said all the positive things about Trainz and I agree with you totally, there is a core issue missing, TS12 still has just so many many bugs and no patches to fix them, If I move upto TS12 I will break so much of my stuff and lose so much functionality its just not worth it. If you doubt what I'm saying you havn't been reading the forums around here. Looks like I might going to grave with 2010

The Trainz team are busy planning for and creating the future of Trainz, which will include updated graphics. "Anytime Soon" is probably not the right word for that time frame.

I fixed ya quote for ya


Cheers

Lots

 

[PEV]

Whether Trainz for Ipod out sells Windows versions is not the point here.

And besides, it's the Windows users, almost exclusively, that create the content and we are lacking information on how to create for the latest Trainz versions; or for any version for that matter.

 

[amigacooke]

And besides, it's the Windows users, almost exclusively, that create the content and we are lacking information on how to create for the latest Trainz versions; or for any version for that matter.

Could that be because Windows users, almost exclusively, are the only users to have the tools to do so?

 

[Mick_Berg]

PEV's original complaint seems to have gotten lost here. He spent hundreds of hours converting the CCG to Wiki format. It would take five minutes to restore the broken links. N3V, please have some respect for one of our most valuable contributors, and restore those links ASAP.

Mick Berg.

 

[Jananton]

What I find somewhat disconcerning is that a subject that's quite important, to say the least, is a little bit handled as if it was a joke by some .

Of course it's possible to create content by trial and error, and many diehards that persevere will do so. On the other hand one could argue that lots of potential talent probably gets waisted by the lack of proper guides, a well written SDK, or whatever one wants to call it.

Personally I find the wiki a kind of labyrinth where - only because I did C(++) programming as a hobby for decades before trainz and learned it all from books and well written SDK's - I can after much searching around sometimes find what I need. On many other occations one ends up on a page that states 'to be done'.

Allthough N3V adopted the concept that the wiki should be a creator for creators thing, I think this is only viable if there's a well build base outline of priciples and examples how 'standard' implementations of kinds, assets and other types are ment to be constructed and used.

As Peter I too still use the CCGTC when the wiki scores a blanc, but that source also doesn't show excellence in creating a concise piece of manual to find problems. Most of the time one needs to jump all over different pages to find knowledge over the same subject. As most people I've learned to live with it I suppose, but for those new to creating items for our virtual hobby it's probably a puzzle journey as well most of the time in the beginning.

A solution or remedy for this isn't that simple. It's a known fact that programmers make lousy help files, not to mention consice SDK's. So if the community here would take up the task to create a workgroup to make the wiki a usable, well, more usable place for creators now and in the future, there should at least be some knowledgable people from N3V joining in to fill in the white spaces on the map.

Oh well, that's my two and a half dime. :hehe:

Greetings from nighttime Amsterdam,

Jan

 

[clam1952]

Guys have you seen this in the Wiki? http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php5/Content_Creator's_Guide

Content Creator's Guide

Jump to: navigation, search
The pages linked here are partially-updated extracts from the obsolete Content Creation Guide booklet/pdf. They are maintained here thanks to the attention of Trainz community members. While the information presented here is in an friendly-to-read format, it is often following outdated recommendations and may result in content that does not work in supported Trainz versions and is not eligible for uploading to the Download Station. For up-to-date information, please review the detailed content specifications h]

 

[johnwhelan]

There is always the wikibook, it has a fair chunk of information in it, pictures are messy to put in but it does have the advantage that N3V isn't involved in its upkeep.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Trainz

Cheerio John

 

[Jananton]

Guys have you seen this in the Wiki?

Hmm, no, I didn't. I don't want to be a party pooper, but isn't the essence of wiki pages that there's an obvious link to something like this instead of letting a person who's maybe completely new to content creation try to search for something he doesn't know what's it called?
Looking at the category at the bottom it should be a link in the 'How to Guides' section, if you ask me.

John mentioned the wikibook page, often overlooked, also by me, so for completeness, here's its link.

Greetings from rainy Amsterdam,

Jan

 

[clam1952]

I found it by looking at the change log, not sure but it's possible things are being reorganised? looking at who is doing the changes, perhaps it will be linked properly? With all the other server related stuff going on. I suppose it's possible the Wiki is getting reorganised as well?

 

[Jananton]

Well, I'm an easy minded guy, so I'll give it the benefit of the doubt.
Looking at all the links added on that CCG reference page however, I'm a little stumped that this utterly usefull missing one link was considered a bridge too far. :hehe:

Greetings from nighttime Amsterdam,

Jan