Trainz12 graphics problems

First of i would save anything that i was working on of intrest with TS12, then i would download the last 3 groups of driver for the video card you have, before i deleted the drivers in use i would go to the Nvidia control centre and set all settings to default and make sure threading is turned off in those settings and that you are on directx then try it again, if that didn't work the i would change the video card drivers,
if that didn't work again i would uninstall TS12 and reinstall it as Admin, run it and make sure your video card settings are at default, if ok install all patches and saved items,
there really is no reason why it should be lagging apart from that,
could you please post what your full spec's of your computer, video card ram size motherboard make ram make and speed power supply hard drive, and also do you know your way around the motherboard bios.

steve
 
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That is interesting to know. Either way, Trainz needs to have the same resolution as Windows.

Shane

When you reboot a computer, one of the things it does is to read this EDID data from the connected display, so that it knows how to set the video output resolution to match the display's capabilities. If the display is only capable of at most 1024x768, then the card will not show a higher resolution than that, since trying to drive the display at 1280x1024 would not work. If you right click on the desktop and go to "settings" or in Windows 7, "screen resolution", you will see the options that your monitor is capable of displaying, which is a file that is programmed into the monitor and read by the Graphics card. Sometimes, this EDID is not read due to connection problems between the PC and the monitor, for instance, if the connection is a one way connection like a fiber-optic which is not bi-directional. What you may have to do in that case is connect the monitor directly to the graphics card, boot up the PC, and see if it reads the EDID properly then. If his monitor is capable of 1792x1344, that should be one of the options that you should see.
 
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My video card reads that just fine. When I go to screen resolution in Win7 it does give me the option to go that high. I run both Win7 and Trainz in 1280x1024. Win7 actually says that is the recommended resolution.

Besides, think about what you are saying. My game already has stutter problems at this resolution. Changing it to a higher resolution will not help that.

I don't want to make any enemies on this forum. I appreciate the help and the community atmosphere here. But it seems as if you are all grasping at straws.

And Steve, that is an awful lot of hoops to jump through to make this work correctly.
 
My video card reads that just fine. When I go to screen resolution in Win7 it does give me the option to go that high. I run both Win7 and Trainz in 1280x1024. Win7 actually says that is the recommended resolution.

Besides, think about what you are saying. My game already has stutter problems at this resolution. Changing it to a higher resolution will not help that.

I don't want to make any enemies on this forum. I appreciate the help and the community atmosphere here. But it seems as if you are all grasping at straws.

And Steve, that is an awful lot of hoops to jump through to make this work correctly.

I've been a hardware technician for close to 30 years no, so nothing surprises me anymore, and no you're not making enemies here. We understand your frustrations, and we're just trying to help you enjoy your game, that's all. :)

Any highly-intensive CPU and graphics focused game or program can bring a system's performance down below what we'd expect system to perform at. The stutters can be caused be so many, many issues and not just the video. The program is truly multitasking, unlike the standard games a lot of people play such as Battle Front, and Far Cry. This program has threads in it to keep the AI on track (pun intended), to keep track of scripts for scripted objects such as industries (stations too), crossings, and all of this is in addition to rendering the scenery for us to see. The graphics too can impact the performance (I'll get back to this in a second, so bear with me on this), but if all of these other things are going on at the same time, then your graphics too won't render properly, and you'll have a stuttering problem.

So having said this, check out the following items, which I will explain as I go a long and break down into the different subsystems that can impact the performance of any program or game.

Hard drive(s)
Hard drives, not counting SSDs, are by their very nature the slowest device in the computer. Being mechanical devices, there are limits to how fast they can go in the first place. In order to mitigate and make this a lesser impact on your system, utilities and hardware caching schemes have been developed to get the most oomph out of these devices as we can.

* Defragment the Hard drive often.
A fragmented hard drive can cause pauses and stuttering as it searches out the assets needed to render the scene. Remember, the hundreds of thousands of assets are stored on the hard drive and indexed by the database file controlled by Content Manager (CM). If the hard drive is fragmented, there is a big delay reading in the data that is read from the database file.

* Disk Space. Is your drive really full?
A full hard drive will impact the performance if there's not enough room to write temporary files as the program is running. Your operating system also needs room to spread out too, so if you're running really tight on space on your drive, you need to clean-up and make some room so Trainz and other programs will run better.

* Is your drive failing, getting old?
A failing hard drive will definitely lose performance as it tries to read the data when ask too by the programs or operating system. There is extra work needed to spin the hard drives, seek out the information, check the information for quality, and then send it on to the RAM for processing by the CPU. The failing drive can cause multiple reads of the same sectors (blocks) on the drive. This can surely cause the stutters as the system tries to reload the information, and with the way this program works, you are losing time trying to read the data. The information needs to loaded up quickly for processing and rendering, and if you're drive is retrying over and over, then the performance is going to be way off.

* Is Windows Search and indexing turned off.
This can really cause a system to stutter as the operating system scans your hard drive for every recently opened program and data file. Now this is fine for Joe and Linda Home User, but not for using something that's going to access the hard drive all the time. Every time you open the database, the file will be indexed. The same will happen as you open up the referenced data files for rendering, as the operating system records where the files are located so you can get to them faster at some point in the future.

*What about your drive speed? Is this drive running at 7200 RPM, or 5400 RPM? A faster drive will of course provide better performance.

Leaving the hard drive alone, how is your case ventilation?
* Heat is a computers worst enemy. A dirty case will cause your CPU and related components to slow down as your process and other boards, including your video card, are trying to keep from dying. Intel, and I think even AMD now, will slow down the processing if you components are overheating, and video cards will do the same. So check your fans and periodically clean the dust bunnies, bugs, hair, and fuzz out of the fans. I recommend using the canned air, but place a pencil or something in the fan blades to keep your fans from being ruined as the air blows through them.

General operating system issues.
* This has nothing to do with whether you are running Windows 9x all the way up to Windows 8. If your operating system has data corruption caused by malware, or in need of install, things can and will run rotten.
* Disable your malware scanner while running Trainz, or if you can disable the scan from that program. This was mentioned above under hard drives. the extra work on the hard drives doesn't helps matters much besides this one more thing running in the background you don't need at this time.
* Turn off or disable any background file sharing or utilities that have nothing to do what you really need. Skype for example will nail a system. There's no need to start this up with your computer.

Display issues
*Ensure you are using the driver that is best for your hardware. I agree the latest and greats is not always the greatest when it comes to drivers. I have found that being a version or two behind is sometimes better. Besides, drivers don't just go bad instantly they're not like food in a refrigerator!
*Run your program at the same resolution as your monitor, or if you have to, lower the display resolution to match what your game can handle. Sometimes even if your display and video card can handle 1780, 19200, the CPU and everything else can't push the data through your video card fast enough, causing stutters.

And finally, what kind of system are you running? A laptop will have a totally different baggage to add to this than a desktop machine. Laptops in general run slower due to the mobile-type processors. the i3 mobile chip is quite a bit different than the desktop version. There is less caching, and cooling an speed step-throttling is a bit different. The same with video and hard drives. With hard drives, they system will end up usually with 5400 RPM drives because of the lower power requirements.

Now there are probably more things to look at, and I'm sure others will add to this. Hopefully you find these useful things as a start in resolving your performance issues with your game.

John
 
John, the OP's specs are on post #1.
escibbe, I run a Q9650 @ 3ghz, 560 ti , 8gb ram and win 7 ultimate 64 bit. We have similar powered systems, I have draw distance @3000, the next 3 at normal, the rest as they come. ( a bit of good weather fog).
So no, you don't need a $5000 machine. Just enough punch+power.
Monitor runs at 1280x1024 (recommended), wide screen telly, I use one of the screen size options that puts trainz on full screen ( recommended is to big, I lose the driver list, schedules etc ).
FPS mid 20's on a big route with around 14 Ai's dragging 70-130 wagons on schedules. BUT if I flick about from driver to driver in quick succession it causes my system to crash. 2 or 3 fine, 6-7 forget it.
Your system's ok, it's just finding the fault. Be patient.
 
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My video card reads that just fine. When I go to screen resolution in Win7 it does give me the option to go that high. I run both Win7 and Trainz in 1280x1024. Win7 actually says that is the recommended resolution.

Besides, think about what you are saying. My game already has stutter problems at this resolution. Changing it to a higher resolution will not help that.

I don't want to make any enemies on this forum. I appreciate the help and the community atmosphere here. But it seems as if you are all grasping at straws.

And Steve, that is an awful lot of hoops to jump through to make this work correctly.

I have no idea if you are talking to me or someone else, since you didn't quote who your response was to. If you were talking to me, I was just trying to explain how EDID works since I made my living for a couple of decades teaching high end graphics applications for million dollar simulation systems, but hey what do I know... Since you seem to know alot about this stuff, I guess you will quickly solve your problem ;).
 
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John, the OP's specs are on post #1.
escibbe, I run a Q9650 @ 3ghz, 560 ti , 8gb ram and win 7 ultimate 64 bit. We have similar powered systems, I have draw distance @3000, the next 3 at normal, the rest as they come. ( a bit of good weather fog).
So no, you don't need a $5000 machine. Just enough punch+power.
QUOTE]

Fran,

I know his system specs. It appears, by all these repeated answers and repeated questions, that we're going around in circles with this so, I just giving him something to think about and perhaps check what's going on. As you know stutters are not 100% related to video problems.

John
 
Bob,

I didn't mean to offend. I was merely pointing out that my grafx cared seems to be reading the monitor EDID info correctly.

I am just frustrated. And I believe rightly so. The game runs well enough and I am enjoying the built in sessions. (Although some sessions have some serious bugs as well, that is a separate post for another day!)

My biggest beef is the discrepancy between the mfg's stated recommended requirements and my system. I don't think gamers should have to be computer engineers to install a working game.

If all this stuff has to be set just so, why not include a script or such that will take care of such settings?
 
John 124863,

Thanks for your informative post. Now I realize how HDD intensive the game is. Shouldn't the game have been written to take advantage of high ram systems and move some of those file access operations into ram for speedier access?

My system is a recent build desktop, barely a year old. I have two Seagate 160GB 7200 RPM drives setup as RAID0, only about half full.

I just did a HDD defrag and then a defrag on the Trainz12 folders themselves.

Windows Search Indexing is and has been disabled.

My build has 9 cooling fans in it. 6 case fans, CPU fan, Graphics card fan, and power supply fan. (BTW...power supply is 800W)

You mention DirectX9. I have seen other posts mention this. I am running DirectX11. Do I need DirectX9 as well? Can they be piggybacked on same system?

I am using Game Booster 3 to disable any non-essential apps running in the background. I will look into any others that may be running.

One thing I didn't mention that now occurs to me, the biggest culprit so far seems to be the Norfolk and Western Sessions. Springfield Industrial and Southern China were less problematic. I realize the NW is a BIG map!

All in all the game runs well enough. I do enjoy it. Will keep checking back!

Thanks!




 
John 124863,

Thanks for your informative post. Now I realize how HDD intensive the game is. Shouldn't the game have been written to take advantage of high ram systems and move some of those file access operations into ram for speedier access?

My system is a recent build desktop, barely a year old. I have two Seagate 160GB 7200 RPM drives setup as RAID0, only about half full.

I just did a HDD defrag and then a defrag on the Trainz12 folders themselves.

Windows Search Indexing is and has been disabled.

My build has 9 cooling fans in it. 6 case fans, CPU fan, Graphics card fan, and power supply fan. (BTW...power supply is 800W)

You mention DirectX9. I have seen other posts mention this. I am running DirectX11. Do I need DirectX9 as well? Can they be piggybacked on same system?

I am using Game Booster 3 to disable any non-essential apps running in the background. I will look into any others that may be running.

One thing I didn't mention that now occurs to me, the biggest culprit so far seems to be the Norfolk and Western Sessions. Springfield Industrial and Southern China were less problematic. I realize the NW is a BIG map!

All in all the game runs well enough. I do enjoy it. Will keep checking back!

Thanks!


Well, I can see we've made some progress here. :D

Shane caught the question on DX9. This is a requirement for the game in order to operate properly. This can definitely cause graphics performance issues and or failure if not installed. I actually have issues with this on Win 8 because Microsoft seems to have removed DX9 directly. The download for it has been removed right now as well which is interesting.

Anyway... The program does take advantage of the memory. I've seen this with the 16GB in my system. With this amount of memory, the hard drive hardly blinks once the data is loaded. 8GB is actually quite fine as it gives the OS room to move out of the way and is what many consider a sweet spot for W7, and about "standard" for today's systems.

You may have actually found your own problem. :) The N&W Coal is one of the most system intensive routes included with TS12 just like the ECML routes. These are great routes, but because of all the detailed content, the program has to keep loading this into memory in order to run. The N&W route also has lots of spline objects, grass, and lots of freight cars in the yard. The liberal use of splines all over the place, in particular, will definitely cause the stutters. (Some people disagree with me on this, but I think otherwise).

As you noted other routes aren't as bad. As time goes on, try building your own route without the extra eye candy and see what you come up with. I ran the early tutorials in TRS2004 and after that I was dissecting routes off of the DLS to see how people made them. Now I rarely drive other's routes (there are a select few), and work on my own most of the time. You'll find the time in Surveyor to be very time consuming and very, very addictive.

John
 
John 124863,

I just completed the Municipal Transit Railroad Elevated Railroad Session. It was very choppy. I see that it is a very large and detailed city with a lot of buildings!

So how do I install DX9 to run alongside DX11? I was studying shaneturner12's tutorial on the Redist version. Will this do it? I downloaded 9.29.1974 by following his link. I have the file saved but will wait to install upon receiving the go ahead.

Just curious, why does Trainz12 need the older DX9?

Also, I had AVG2012 and TuneUp Utilities running in the background. GameBooster 3 takes care of shutting down TuneUp. As for AVG, I went into the settings and set up a Trainz12 exception for the Resident Shield.

Thanks for your help!
 
John 124863,

I just completed the Municipal Transit Railroad Elevated Railroad Session. It was very choppy. I see that it is a very large and detailed city with a lot of buildings!

So how do I install DX9 to run alongside DX11? I was studying shaneturner12's tutorial on the Redist version. Will this do it? I downloaded 9.29.1974 by following his link. I have the file saved but will wait to install upon receiving the go ahead.

Just curious, why does Trainz12 need the older DX9?

Also, I had AVG2012 and TuneUp Utilities running in the background. GameBooster 3 takes care of shutting down TuneUp. As for AVG, I went into the settings and set up a Trainz12 exception for the Resident Shield.

Thanks for your help!

You're welcome. I'm glad we've made a lot of progress here.

Just run the DXSetup with administrator rights, and with everything else closed of course. This will put in the DX9 parts that are missing from the DX11. DX11 has a subset of DX9 for backwards compatibility, but it does not have everything that the program needs. You will not see any differences with your system.

You are correct in disabling the scan of your Trainz folder. This should take care of that part.

I too run the AVG Tune-up utilities. What version are you running? I'm running the latest Version 12 which is needed for W8. I was running the older one with W7 and it did a fine job defragging the hard drive and doing other stuff. I tend not to run anything at startup unless I need it.

John
 
John 124863,

I just completed the Municipal Transit Railroad Elevated Railroad Session. It was very choppy. I see that it is a very large and detailed city with a lot of buildings!

So how do I install DX9 to run alongside DX11? I was studying shaneturner12's tutorial on the Redist version. Will this do it? I downloaded 9.29.1974 by following his link. I have the file saved but will wait to install upon receiving the go ahead.

Just curious, why does Trainz12 need the older DX9?

Also, I had AVG2012 and TuneUp Utilities running in the background. GameBooster 3 takes care of shutting down TuneUp. As for AVG, I went into the settings and set up a Trainz12 exception for the Resident Shield.

Thanks for your help!

Many current PC games use DX9.
 
John 124863,

I just completed the Municipal Transit Railroad Elevated Railroad Session. It was very choppy. I see that it is a very large and detailed city with a lot of buildings!

So how do I install DX9 to run alongside DX11? I was studying shaneturner12's tutorial on the Redist version. Will this do it? I downloaded 9.29.1974 by following his link. I have the file saved but will wait to install upon receiving the go ahead.

Just curious, why does Trainz12 need the older DX9?

Also, I had AVG2012 and TuneUp Utilities running in the background. GameBooster 3 takes care of shutting down TuneUp. As for AVG, I went into the settings and set up a Trainz12 exception for the Resident Shield.

Thanks for your help!

If you do run into difficulties when installing the Redist version, see my DXInstallHelper thread in this forum, as this is an automated tool that will automatically download and install the June 2010/April 2011 (which is the latest version) redistributable. The only thing you will need to do is to grant the tool access to the Internet when prompted.

Shane
 
As said many games still use DX9, mainly because DX10 and 11 is not available officially for Windows XP which still has a lot of users including many running Trainz and other DX based games, yes I am aware of the third party DX 10 / 11 hacks for XP, however a game that is for release needs to use officially available software not a lashup. DX10 / 11 while supposedly backwards compatible is missing a couple of the DX9 files that some games or possibly graphics cards need to work properly. There are a lot of moans on the web about backwards compatibility problems and even supposedly DX10 / 11 coded games that work better in DX9, confusing to say the least!
 
DX10 / 11 while supposedly backwards compatible is missing a couple of the DX9 files that some games or possibly graphics cards need to work properly. There are a lot of moans on the web about backwards compatibility problems and even supposedly DX10 / 11 coded games that work better in DX9, confusing to say the least!

The moans are probably because the older DX9 has less fluff in it to cull through to make the D3D functions operational. It seems that whenever a developer updates something like this, they add in features that no one uses, or are used by only a very few, and the very few are those that wrote the demo to show off these new features. By the time other developers update their game engines. to support these new features, the driver developer has come up with newer, never to be used, driver features while ditching support for the older stuff.

John
 
You're welcome. I'm glad we've made a lot of progress here.

Just run the DXSetup with administrator rights, and with everything else closed of course. This will put in the DX9 parts that are missing from the DX11. DX11 has a subset of DX9 for backwards compatibility, but it does not have everything that the program needs. You will not see any differences with your system.

You are correct in disabling the scan of your Trainz folder. This should take care of that part.

I too run the AVG Tune-up utilities. What version are you running? I'm running the latest Version 12 which is needed for W8. I was running the older one with W7 and it did a fine job defragging the hard drive and doing other stuff. I tend not to run anything at startup unless I need it.

John

I should have clarified my response.

TuneUp utilities is a separate program, not affiliated with AVG. You can find it here. TuneUp is an optimizer and clean up program.

I am running AVG Free 2012 and TuneUp Utilities 2010.
 
If you do run into difficulties when installing the Redist version, see my DXInstallHelper thread in this forum, as this is an automated tool that will automatically download and install the June 2010/April 2011 (which is the latest version) redistributable. The only thing you will need to do is to grant the tool access to the Internet when prompted.

Shane

I ran the installer and it said it was successful. Is there any way to check that the DX9 files got attached to DX11 correctly?

When I run dxdiag.exe, for example, it says that the DirectX version is DirectX 11.
 
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