Trainz Update Announcement (SP6)

[pware]

'Betas are not intended for users who want to do serious route building' is a confusing statement

Betas are always full of bugs and even CTDs - and that is true for all software, not just Trainz.

If you do some serious route building using a beta and encounter a bug or a CTD where your hard worked data cannot be recovered then you have wasted all that time and effort. I have certainly experienced that when I once decided to do some serious route building using a beta version and lost all the data. Fortunately it was for a new route that I had no intention of ever finishing - it was a test bed for the beta. I just thought it was strange that they recommend "no serious route building" with a beta when I thought that that would be the one sure method of discovering new bugs, which I did.

 

[JCitron]

Betas are always full of bugs and even CTDs - and that is true for all software, not just Trainz.

If you do some serious route building using a beta and encounter a bug or a CTD where your hard worked data cannot be recovered then you have wasted all that time and effort. I have certainly experienced that when I once decided to do some serious route building using a beta version and lost all the data. Fortunately it was for a new route that I had no intention of ever finishing - it was a test bed for the beta. I just thought it was strange that they recommend "no serious route building" with a beta when I thought that that would be the one sure method of discovering new bugs, which I did.

I agree! I have a duplicate of my Trainz data and database I use for testing. It takes me a day or two to get things settled down before I do any testing and as you've found out this is when we find the bugs. Testing using built-in assets doesn't always find anything.

 

[WestSideRailways]

I don't know why people using Trainz PLUS are complaining for......
N3V have NEVER said how long Train PLUS would be running for....

It is a BETA version and properly all ways will be....

If you can not handle that , then WHY are you using the BETA version.!!

I am NOT and never will be a rivet counter.

One of the things that I would like N3V to get working... is the TLR.

Everyone has a different reason for wanting this and that....

So this is my RANT.... you don't like .... Just keep scrolling....

 

[paulper]

I do not know what you expect to happen or even if you understand the software development cycle and how it works (most or some of the time).

The latest non-beta build for Plus is 132284 (the released version to use John's sensible terminology in his post above). My understanding is that build 133407 is the latest Plus beta version (the test version). I disagree that both are betas as you seem to be suggesting in post #376. Continued software development is different to betas in my view, with the latter being test versions.

Notwithstanding that, my point wasn't about the software (i.e. TRS22 PE or Plus, or whatever), but the features of whatever iteration of the software that have remained in a beta state (sometimes for years as amigacooke rightly points out), and if it isn't a beta version then the feature or change has ended up with additional limitations that reduce the benefits of it (as I discussed above).

The 'enjoy new features first' marketing highlight for Trainz Plus in the product comparison does not come with a warning that these will be in beta state only - either not working as intended, not the full feature or that Plus users are seemingly going to be responsible for testing it and submitting reports. It gives no impression at all that none of these 'new features' may forever be in a beta state as part of one's subscription to Plus.

I therefore cannot help but feel disappointed with the way that Plus has turned out and that the development of Plus is not what I expected based on N3V's marketing of it.

Can we at least agree that Surveyor 1 is not still in a beta state?!

 

[pware]

Can we at least agree that Surveyor 1 is not still in a beta state?

If you define "not still in a beta state" as no longer in development, then probably yes.

Technically, every software item ever released is in "a beta state" even if not labelled "beta". Because when new bugs are found, not if they are found (no such thing as "bug free" software), then a fix will usually, eventually, be released until the next bug is found (in either the "fix" itself or in the original software) ... and the process continues in an endless cycle for as long as that software is continuing to evolve and updates are released. This is the software maintenance cycle and continues until someone decides to stop development and support of that particular release. After that, no more bug fixes.

My copy of Trainz Plus build 134634 is a beta version. How do I know this: It is in the Trainz Plus Beta Update Stream - look in Trainz Settings -> Install -> Change Trainz Update Stream.... To remind me of this, every time I launch it the letters "Beta Stream" in big, bold, white appear on the bottom right of the launcher - I added that to the background graphic myself. Every time I discover a bug I report it - it is part of being a beta tester.

My copy of Trainz Plus build 132284 is not in the Trainz Plus Beta Update Stream so it is, allowing for my statement at the start of the second paragraph above, a retail release. It still has bugs as does all software and these bugs, if you discover any, should be reported via the Bug Reporting Page.

When I signed up for the Trainz Plus subscription, I was fully aware of the status of its new features as "experimental" (code for probably "buggy") and I accepted that. I also accepted that Trainz Plus is a work in progress, with new features that will appear (e.g. TLR, Multiplayer Surveyor, etc) that are not yet in a full operating mode.

TANE, TRS19 and TRS22 are more like "fixed" products in that they will probably not receive updates with major new features. They will certainly receive bug fixes and probably some "housekeeping" changes.

I therefore cannot help but feel disappointed with the way that Plus has turned out and that the development of Plus is not what I expected based on N3V's marketing of it.

Apart from the subscription side of things, Trainz Plus is not for everyone. I, on the other hand, am quite satisfied with Trainz Plus, both the beta and non-beta versions, and will continue the subscription.

 

[paulper]

When I signed up for the Trainz Plus subscription, I was fully aware of the status of its new features as "experimental" (code for probably "buggy") and I accepted that. I also accepted that Trainz Plus is a work in progress, with new features that will appear (e.g. TLR, Multiplayer Surveyor, etc) that are not yet in a full operating mode.

Your above response is about the beta status of the software, when my issue is the features themselves. I think there is a very obvious distinction between the marketing of Plus saying 'access to new features' and what it means in reality, which is 'access to beta versions of new features' or 'test new features' or 'try the basics of new features' that, quite frankly, years later, have not become fully working features that are 'no longer in development' to coin your phrase. It is fine for you to be content with a lack of fully finished 'new features' during the last 4 years, but I don't think I'm unreasonable in coming to a different view.

 

[amigacooke]

If you define "not still in a beta state" as no longer in development, then probably yes.

Technically, every software item ever released is in "a beta state" even if not labelled "beta". Because when new bugs are found, not if they are found (no such thing as "bug free" software), then a fix will usually, eventually, be released until the next bug is found (in either the "fix" itself or in the original software) ... and the process continues in an endless cycle for as long as that software is continuing to evolve and updates are released. This is the software maintenance cycle and continues until someone decides to stop development and support of that particular release. After that, no more bug fixes.

My copy of Trainz Plus build 134634 is a beta version. How do I know this: It is in the Trainz Plus Beta Update Stream - look in Trainz Settings -> Install -> Change Trainz Update Stream.... To remind me of this, every time I launch it the letters "Beta Stream" in big, bold, white appear on the bottom right of the launcher - I added that to the background graphic myself. Every time I discover a bug I report it - it is part of being a beta tester.

My copy of Trainz Plus build 132284 is not in the Trainz Plus Beta Update Stream so it is, allowing for my statement at the start of the second paragraph above, a retail release. It still has bugs as does all software and these bugs, if you discover any, should be reported via the Bug Reporting Page.

When I signed up for the Trainz Plus subscription, I was fully aware of the status of its new features as "experimental" (code for probably "buggy") and I accepted that. I also accepted that Trainz Plus is a work in progress, with new features that will appear (e.g. TLR, Multiplayer Surveyor, etc) that are not yet in a full operating mode.

TANE, TRS19 and TRS22 are more like "fixed" products in that they will probably not receive updates with major new features. They will certainly receive bug fixes and probably some "housekeeping" changes.

Apart from the subscription side of things, Trainz Plus is not for everyone. I, on the other hand, am quite satisfied with Trainz Plus, both the beta and non-beta versions, and will continue the subscription.

If the contention that all modern software is always in beta until development ceases, I really can’t see how Trainz is modern software as even Plus has a release version and a beta version. Does this imply that N3V don’t understand modern development or they are mislabelling betas as release versions?

If there is no difference between the beta version and the release version, then there would only be a beta version.

I think John inadvertently defined what’s beta and what isn’t, if it’s a version for testing, it’s a beta, if not it’s not.