Trainz Update Announcement (SP6)

Hi,

For the Gurus out there, I've checked my versions and I have 2002 PE still at 126273. There doesn't appear to be a patch for this version? So I try the one from the 2022 standard version?

Cheers,
Colin
 
ColPrice2002 said:
I've checked my versions and I have 2002 PE still at 126273. There doesn't appear to be a patch for this version?
Click to expand...

I am assuming that you have checked for Trainz Upgrades in the Trainz Launcher / Install tab? Also check that you are not on the beta stream in the same location.

Build 126273 is Retail TRS22 SP4 (Windows). I could not find a Retail SP4 build for TRS22PE (Windows) so I am assuming it is the same as the TRS22 SP4 (Windows). There should have been an update to take it to Build 128487 Retail TRS22 SP5 (Windows) and then to Build 129335 Retail TRS22 SP5 HF/TRS22 PE (Windows). From there a final update should take it to Build 131965 Retail TRS22 SP6/TRS22 PE (Windows). Unless, of course, N3V released a single update from Build 126273 to Build 131965.
 
pware said:
Downloaded and installed. Some assets labelled "Unknown Location" or "Third Party". On loading into Surveyor there was a noticeable number of "missing asset" cubes scattered around the layout - not all seemed to be related to those listed as missing. As per my usual practice, I deleted all missing assets.

Yes, issues in rendering distant objects.

I did some experimenting with the following observations.
  • Saving the Route (with a new name) upgraded it from build 4.5 to 5.6. Reloading the upgrade made a noticeable difference. Still not perfect.
  • I noticed that the route contains a huge number of billboard trees including many tree splines. Perhaps the "(Updated)" in the route title indicates a very early origin?
  • Deleted (via the Disable option in CM) all the tree splines. Another significant improvement in performance. Almost no rendering issues.
  • I replaced (via the Bulk Replace option in Surveyor) as many of the billboard trees with their PlantFactory equivalents (or "close-enoughs") as I could - I didn't get them all because some of the billboard trees had no PF equivalents.
The end result, in both Surveyor and Driver, was the elimination of the rendering issues.

Now I know that this is not the solution for everyone but it does illustrate a point that posters have made over the years about the continued use of legacy assets (in this case billboard trees and tree splines) in the latest Trainz versions. They are clearly a drain on system performance.

In my own routes I have not seen any issues after the update.
Click to expand...
I've followed your steps and can report that the issues remain, albeit the re-drawing of assets is perhaps less frequent.

EDIT: I would add that for my own route (also problematic), the best performance uplift I've seen under SP6 was after disabling the assets that were version 4.0 to 4.9, not necessarily indicating that the oldest assets are the problem.
 
The last two updates for TRS22 PE have both been on the TRS22 Beta Stream for some reason. My TRS22 PE SP5 is offing me this update. I'm holding off for the moment as TRS 22 PE is the main version of Trainz I use. I did the same with the SP5 update as well.
 
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passanger said:
New "lods system" makes object blink in 800 meters instead of complete revealing or disappearing. Some rules stopped working and plenty of other issues.
I can see such feedback through many channels.
Click to expand...
What can I say. I can only go by what I am seeing on my systems plus the posters here who are also saying that they are having no problems with SP6. This does not say that you and other posters are not having problems. So what is the cause?

In one case that I investigated the cause of that users problems was a very old route that used a huge number of tree splines and billboard trees. The problems were fixed by deleting the old legacy tree splines and replacing the billboard trees with PlantFactory equivalents (where they were available). That was just one case. I recently experienced a sudden and severe drop in frame rates on my current project route after updating to SP6 on one machine but the same drop was also happening when the route was on the machines running SP5 so the update was not the cause. It was a small grass asset that I had added to a scrapbook and had painted almost everywhere using the scrapbook brush - the asset had a file size of over 1MB and was clearly overloading the rendering engine. Removing the asset from the route and scrapbook fixed the problem. Some, but clearly not all, of these issues are caused by external factors.

paulper said:
Submitted bug reports, exchanged emails with QA, but what was the point? The RC build was released without change.
Click to expand...
I have also experienced that. I submitted a bug report, got confirmation that it was a bug and that it had been passed on to the devs. A few weeks later I received another communication informing me that the bug had been resolved but that the "fix" was too late to be included in the next SP update. It was in the following SP update. You cannot simply make sudden changes to an update to fix an error just prior to its release without risking the change causing other issues. That is standard practice and is fully understandable.
paulper said:
I don't understand the groans about people not submitting bug reports when those that do don't appear to have made a difference.
Click to expand...
How do you or they know that the reports make no difference?

There have been bug reports that I have submitted that have never received a human response, others that have, seemingly, been "lost" in the system but eventually surfaced in a new release where the bug was fixed (was it my report that did it? Who knows and who cares? The fix was made). Just because you don't get an immediate response or the problem is not fixed the next morning (as some posters seem to think should happen) is no reason to give up. My personal record was two complete versions from TRS12 to TRS19 before a bug I reported was eventually fixed - it seems that I was the only one who reported it and my post about it in these forums still has zero responses (the last time I looked).
 
pware said:
What can I say. I can only go by what I am seeing on my systems plus the posters here who are also saying that they are having no problems with SP6. This does not say that you and other posters are not having problems. So what is the cause?

In one case that I investigated the cause of that users problems was a very old route that used a huge number of tree splines and billboard trees. The problems were fixed by deleting the old legacy tree splines and replacing the billboard trees with PlantFactory equivalents (where they were available). That was just one case. I recently experienced a sudden and severe drop in frame rates on my current project route after updating to SP6 on one machine but the same drop was also happening when the route was on the machines running SP5 so the update was not the cause. It was a small grass asset that I had added to a scrapbook and had painted almost everywhere using the scrapbook brush - the asset had a file size of over 1MB and was clearly overloading the rendering engine. Removing the asset from the route and scrapbook fixed the problem. Some, but clearly not all, of these issues are caused by external factors.


I have also experienced that. I submitted a bug report, got confirmation that it was a bug and that it had been passed on to the devs. A few weeks later I received another communication informing me that the bug had been resolved but that the "fix" was too late to be included in the next SP update. It was in the following SP update. You cannot simply make sudden changes to an update to fix an error just prior to its release without risking the change causing other issues. That is standard practice and is fully understandable.

How do you or they know that the reports make no difference?

There have been bug reports that I have submitted that have never received a human response, others that have, seemingly, been "lost" in the system but eventually surfaced in a new release where the bug was fixed (was it my report that did it? Who knows and who cares? The fix was made). Just because you don't get an immediate response or the problem is not fixed the next morning (as some posters seem to think should happen) is no reason to give up. My personal record was two complete versions from TRS12 to TRS19 before a bug I reported was eventually fixed - it seems that I was the only one who reported it and my post about it in these forums still has zero responses (the last time I looked).
Click to expand...
I prefer patience over haste. My question was why rush out SP6 when N3V were aware of issues with the RC?

Even you cannot deny the feedback on SP5 was far less negative than SP6 has been to date.
 
I've been playing this game for a very long time, and it seems that every update you break something. Most the time its more fixing than breaking but, the game is completely unplayable and it ruberbands lags in open areas. But the main problem I've had on my route that I've had no issues with is the render is really messed up. It tries to reload the render and cant even load half the route. I'd like to know when the next update will be out to patch these bugs considering the fact I can't work or even play on this game as of now. :)
 
Unfortunately, and for reasons that are not the case, I have not been able to enjoy Trainz for a long time. I have TRS22PE. Build 126273. The case is that it warns me that there is an update, but I get the following error:
Patch Failed: Failed to Read Source Data:
'http // dl1.n3vgames.com/patch/streams/trs24_q1/560/d410cd7ef48a5694d2a59cb7d92d0245.txt'
 
pware said:
What can I say. I can only go by what I am seeing on my systems plus the posters here who are also saying that they are having no problems with SP6. This does not say that you and other posters are not having problems. So what is the cause?

In one case that I investigated the cause of that users problems was a very old route that used a huge number of tree splines and billboard trees. The problems were fixed by deleting the old legacy tree splines and replacing the billboard trees with PlantFactory equivalents (where they were available). That was just one case. I recently experienced a sudden and severe drop in frame rates on my current project route after updating to SP6 on one machine but the same drop was also happening when the route was on the machines running SP5 so the update was not the cause. It was a small grass asset that I had added to a scrapbook and had painted almost everywhere using the scrapbook brush - the asset had a file size of over 1MB and was clearly overloading the rendering engine. Removing the asset from the route and scrapbook fixed the problem. Some, but clearly not all, of these issues are caused by external factors.


I have also experienced that. I submitted a bug report, got confirmation that it was a bug and that it had been passed on to the devs. A few weeks later I received another communication informing me that the bug had been resolved but that the "fix" was too late to be included in the next SP update. It was in the following SP update. You cannot simply make sudden changes to an update to fix an error just prior to its release without risking the change causing other issues. That is standard practice and is fully understandable.

How do you or they know that the reports make no difference?

There have been bug reports that I have submitted that have never received a human response, others that have, seemingly, been "lost" in the system but eventually surfaced in a new release where the bug was fixed (was it my report that did it? Who knows and who cares? The fix was made). Just because you don't get an immediate response or the problem is not fixed the next morning (as some posters seem to think should happen) is no reason to give up. My personal record was two complete versions from TRS12 to TRS19 before a bug I reported was eventually fixed - it seems that I was the only one who reported it and my post about it in these forums still has zero responses (the last time I looked).
Click to expand...
Can you please tell me the name and KUID of the small grass that was creating lag? I think I have the same issue
 
JCitron said:
Submit a bug report.
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Trainz Bug Report

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Keep flooding in bug reports.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure it will lead anywhere, bugs accumulate with every new update, the game is really behind in development compared to other titles. It was once written here that their team is modest, that's understandable, but the development has been delayed for several years and if I didn't pay a lot of money for Trainz + every month, I wouldn't even say ashes, but I have to complain like this! There would definitely be more developers who would get the game on a better track! One should be afraid of what the computer, or the graphics card, or some application or software will download for patches! :unsure:
 
billm001 said:
Can you please tell me the name and KUID of the small grass that was creating lag? I think I have the same issue
Click to expand...
I cannot recall the exact one as I have since deleted it from my route and scrapbooks but it was named "CaddyLars" and possibly a small clump of bushes or grasses

One of these *could* be the culprit:-
<kuid:328583:3640> CaddyLars Shrub#6 group
<kuid2:328583:3447:1> CaddyLars Shrub#1b large
<kuid2:328583:3435:1> CaddyLars Shrub#1b small

In the process of answering this post I have discovered a number of other grasses and bushes that I have been using in Scrapbooks and PickLists to add ground cover that have exceeded 1MB in size - the worst so far is 4.1 MB for a small bush! While these "bloated" small objects may be fine when used sparingly, they can create major issues when used in large numbers in the same scene as I discovered. I will have to do some more pruning.

Thanks for the question.
 
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I was customizing the existing map in the game. I updated it to my liking. The game is lagging and freezing. How can I fix this problem? I don't want all my hard work to go to waste. I don't want to start over again.

Will there be a new update for the trees and plants in the future? What should I do now?
 
JCitron said:
Keep flooding in bug reports.
Click to expand...
Don't assume that the developers spend all their time reading the posts in these forums. If I was one of the programmers I would stay well clear of these forums for a variety of reasons. Filling out the bug report form will provide them with more details than a vague posted statement such as "its laggy" or "freezes" . And do not expect an instant human written response even though your issue is clearly the most critical one. Hasty responses, along with hasty fixes, lead to more problems.
 
pware said:
I cannot recall the exact one as I have since deleted it from my route and scrapbooks but it was named "CaddyLars" and possibly a small clump of bushes or grasses

One of these *could* be the culprit:-
<kuid:328583:3640> CaddyLars Shrub#6 group
<kuid2:328583:3447:1> CaddyLars Shrub#1b large
<kuid2:328583:3435:1> CaddyLars Shrub#1b small

In the process of answering this post I have discovered a number of other grasses and bushes that I have been using in Scrapbooks and PickLists to add ground cover that have exceeded 1MB in size - the worst so far is 4.1 MB for a small bush! While these "bloated" small objects may be fine when used sparingly, they can create major issues when used in large numbers in the same scene as I discovered. I will have to do some more pruning.

Thanks for the question.
Click to expand...
Thank you for looking it up. Please remind how I can find out the file sizes of KUIDs -- the content manager does not show that.
 
billm001 said:
the content manager does not show that.
Click to expand...
  1. Right mouse click on any column heading in Content Manager.
  2. Select the option Insert Column
  3. Select the sub option File Size
You can drag the column by its heading into any desired position left or right.

Left click on a column heading to sort its contents, each click will cycle through the different ordering options
 
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