Trainz-build numbers below 3.7 are no longer supported....

[JCitron]

N3V have stated that TANE will be backward compatible with TS12 - that's fine, but in that would have to at least support build 2.9 and above is my guess.
Also, N3V should also be aware that the customer base has spent endless hours:
1. Downloading content
2. Creating content
3. Repairing content

They have also spent money on:
1. Buying updated Trainz
2. Buying content from N3V & 3rd Party
3. Buying updating 3d programs to create content

Basically what I am saying is that everyone into Trainz has made some sort of commitment be it time, money or anything else to support the product.

And at a rough guess it would be in N3V's best interest to maintain the good relations (currently under threat) and keep on supporting user and creationist up to TS12 and builds 2.9 and above for at least the next few years until.
A. The users update to TANE
B. Creators get time to fix/repair and build TANE compliant assets (that by the way should be backward compatible to TS12).

I can only encourage all our dedicated creators to hang in and not chuck in the towel - we the user love you all.

This is too difficult to do because it's the logical thing to do.

The crew seem to forget who really makes the product sell. If all we had were their few routes and old content no one would buy it! The product was designed right from the very beginning with the end-community in mind and with the support of the community the product developed and grew to what we have now. Forgetting these routes spells trouble for them.


John

 

[davesnow]

They ain't gonna do anything guys. You may as well save your typing fingers.

 

[VinnyBarb]

Snip......

I can only encourage all our dedicated creators to hang in and not chuck in the towel - we the user love you all.

We dedicated content creators HAVE BEEN HANGING IN THERE for many years, despite our pleas for current instructions and information of new tags, new configurations, concise performance issues (not after someone posted asking something only to get shot down by the powers that be) etc., including updating the TrainzWiki to make this current for todays content creating. Where was N3V Games then, all those years ago and also until now as we are STILL WAITING to get informed proper?

As others have said repeatedly in the past, the TrainzWiki is NOT UP TO DATE, is very hard to search (unless one knows the exact search expression needed). Why can't we have something like the old CCGs in a PDF format, where one can include any updates from time to time needed. This way, one can print out the PDF CCG and have this as a reference next to the offline PC when creating WITHOUT all the time needing to go online if more info is needed, only to find out, more often than not, no good useful information needed can be found with the TrainzWiki.

I know, it is useless to ask for such normal content creating information exchange between a developer and a creator here and it still browns me off when comparing other game developers, who give all help to modders and game improvers where they even developed utilities and other stuff needed to do this. Here, if it weren't for others like PEV, Andi06, Paul Hobbs and others partially doing this with their utilities, we really would be up a creek without a paddle content creating wise. Anyone remember Morrowind, Skyrim, Farcry, X series of space games and many many other games, where developers of such games help and encourage others to modify these to their hearts content . What has N3V Games against content creators doing this here by refusing to let us know or even update the TrainzWiki themselves with any CURRENT information needed to create?

Please don't say TANE is a new game engine, what about all the other versions before that where we content creators were constantly asking for more information to create?

FYI, I d/loaded all TANE CE beta versions, some of my creations which work PERFECTLY in TS12 31688 still refuses to work in any of the TANE versions although it was said, these will work in TANE. Now we are even told, the boxed TANE version I bought is needing an upgrade/patch as soon as we get it in our hands. I contributed good money to make TANE a reality but not getting an inferior product in my box, whenever I will receive it. This was NOT specified by N3V Games when they asked for Kickstarter contributions, for which I spend good money too.

Is it perhaps, as Chris (Windwalkr) sometimes stated, most of the coders/programmers working with TANE used to work on FURY. We all know how THAT ended up, is TANE perhaps following the same path?

I rest my case, over to you N3V Games.

VinnyBarb

 

[Zeldaboy14]

From what I see going on, Trainz is headed to the Railworks Standerd, and beginning to not be user friendly. N3V seems to not wanna keep the build at 2.9, and that's a HUGE thing. Currently (if what I'm reading from previous posts is correct) no version of Trainz is supported. Quite sad that a game that we no has no support before it's new version is (fully) completed. I originally had plans to uploaded the finalised A Forest Test 2.0 route to the DLS under the 2.9 build, but now it'll have to be 3.7(8?) for it to be uploaded.

 

[nicky9499]

N3V seems to not wanna keep the build at 2.9, and that's a HUGE thing. Currently (if what I'm reading from previous posts is correct) no version of Trainz is supported. Quite sad that a game that we no has no support before it's new version is (fully) completed. I originally had plans to uploaded the finalised A Forest Test 2.0 route to the DLS under the 2.9 build, but now it'll have to be 3.7(8?) for it to be uploaded.

Support for TS09 SP0 (2.9) ended in September 2014, this was established over a year ago. What you've comprehended from previous posts is also garbage, because 3.7 is TS12 SP1, which is (surprise) very much supported.

ps. You can keep your forest route to yourself.

 

[trainfancaleb]

What I hate is that N3V is ending support for a version that is still supported.

 

[RRSignal]

Support for TS09 SP0 (2.9) ended in September 2014, this was established over a year ago. What you've comprehended from previous posts is also garbage, because 3.7 is TS12 SP1, which is (surprise) very much supported.

ps. You can keep your forest route to yourself.

Instead of trolling (as usual), try reading the above. You'd know that the issue is that TS12 is *not* supported: Specifically, not all versions. Including the one listed on the lifecycle policy page.

Also, while I don't personally care for Zeldaboy's creations, he appears to have created a lot more content than the big, fat zero that you have. His forest test route might not be most people's idea of good, but a lot of people like the Thomas stuff.

 

[jacksonbarno]

Um... I hate to disagree with ya RRsignal, but wasn't Nicky the guy who made the Coal County megaroute?

 

[RRSignal]

Um... I hate to disagree with ya RRsignal, but wasn't Nicky the guy who made the Coal County megaroute?

I tried searching the DLS under his name before posting that, no dice.

 

[jacksonbarno]

It's a third party website...

http://www.ccrx.us/

This whole TANE/TS12 thing just reminds me of Fury all over again...

"The game was initially well received in beta testing and during an pre-release event known as the Fury Challenge; however, many aspects of the game that the beta testers loved were changed between the end of the Fury Challenge and the public release version. To add to this, patching continued to set back the game. Developers would often ask players what they wanted from the game and then disregard the answers they received." - from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fury_(video_game)

Sound familiar?

N3V, just quit it already. Trainz is slowly sliding down the path of no return because of stuff like this. Take a hint and listen to your fanbase for once.

 

[amigacooke]

Removing upload support for builds of a product that is still being supported is not business as usual.

It is unusual business and, in my opinion, unwise business.

I can only assume that N3V does not intend to use the KickStarter method of raising funds again. Looks like a home goal to me :-(

 

[dragonharh]

It's a third party website...

http://www.ccrx.us/

This whole TANE/TS12 thing just reminds me of Fury all over again...

"The game was initially well received in beta testing and during an pre-release event known as the Fury Challenge; however, many aspects of the game that the beta testers loved were changed between the end of the Fury Challenge and the public release version. To add to this, patching continued to set back the game. Developers would often ask players what they wanted from the game and then disregard the answers they received." - from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fury_(video_game)

Sound familiar?

N3V, just quit it already. Trainz is slowly sliding down the path of no return because of stuff like this. Take a hint and listen to your fanbase for once.

I've hard about that didn't if go under or something a few years later because alot of buys wore Ped off about the released, to me it sounds like tane is taken the same path.

 

[iannz]

Without having a rant, can I just say to N3V that maybe a sticky post in the Content Creation Forum a few months back of your intension to drop support for TS12 non SP1 might have been an easier solution than coping all this flak.
Something to think about next time around maybe?

 

[Smileyman]

I find this an odd move by N3V.
As far as I'm aware, the main things that TS12 SP1 adds are less stability and N3V's own DRM DLC system.

I think we can safely say they aren't promoting the problems that SP1 has brought to some/most/all TS12 users, so we can discount that.
That just leaves the DLC system, in which case we are within our right to assume that the only reason pre-SP1 users have been cut off from support is to get everyone onto a version that includes that system.

I'm not talking about the support for TS10 and lower being withdrawn.
That was going to happen at some point anyway (although, whether they stuck to their announced product support dates or not is a valid question, and if they didn't, I completely understand why a lot of people are angry).

What I'm talking about is TS12.
There's no question that they didn't do the right thing by not warning people, if that's the case.
The whole thing leaves a nasty taste in my mouth, that's for sure, and has completely halted my new-found enthusiasm for scripting and modelling for Trainz (for which I'd already started making plans and gathering resources).

I may buy TS12 this week, on that bundle that was linked to today (it's only pennies), and I have no problem upgrading to SP1, because the amount of DLC content that I will be buying will come to the grand total of Zero!
I will uninstall SP1 if it turns out to be as bad as people say though.

And I will wait until T:ANE has been out for a couple of months before even considering buying it.

In the space of a few days, I've gone from being about to buy TS12 (just to support N3V, because I wasn't going to use it), and pre-ordering T:ANE, to stepping back from it all, and only considering buying TS12 off some cheap bundle, rather than buying direct from N3V, and forgetting about T:ANE for now.
And it's all down to how they did it, not necessarily what they did.

Just out of curiosity, is the support of only certain builds of a Trainz version unprecedented?
If so, that's what has me worried the most.
It's a total lack of respect, in my opinion, for those that have built Trainz up to what it is today.
And I really feel for those who have invested so much time and money into the franchise, above and beyond just buying the game.

Just how disposable is this community in N3V's eyes?

 

[nawlins]

I too am very disappointed.

While I was certain in my own mind that N3V would jump from v2.9 to v3.7 at some point, disregarding the in between versions (and their loyal customers), to do so without warning is sure to anger and disappoint many Trainz users.
Not a good marketing ploy IMO.

 

[Vern]

No mention of the change on the main "My Trainz" front page either.

Just a couple of further thoughts, if the intention is indeed to discourage amateur/freeware content creation and channel people towards payware in an attempt to emulate the Dovie's business model.
1. At least the current DTG graphics engine looks like it was put together in the last 5 years, reasonably lifelike and you can run structured scenarios and timetables without having to be your own despatcher. Sorry N3V guys but based on the current CE1.2, TANE still looks graphically back in 2003 (even with the shadows etc. turned on which makes it unplayable for many users even on good PC's). People aren't going to drop £25 a pop to run DLC on that. Say what you like about the Dovies, but they have a fairly shrewd idea of what their customer base wants and has a team of both in house staff and external associates who are quite skilled at turning out good quality routes and add-ons, presumably well rewarded too (not just a t-shirt in return for 80 hours work).

2. If you stifle freeware, you stifle creativity generally, which is where the artists who would create the add-on DLC will come from. By their own admission, N3V don't have the in house skill or knowledge to produce routes or rolling stock, so they should be going out of their way to appease, not alienate, those who do.

Ironically the change probably isn't going to affect me greatly as I have no "live" routes in TS12 at present. The only possible advantage in 61388 over 49922 for the route builder is the elimination of those annoying spline detachments every so often. The announcement would have had more credence if accompanied by a statement of intent once TANE is out to address the outstanding bugs and issues in TS12 with one more patch/SP2, at which point bringing everyone up to the same version might not have seemed such a bad idea. One also has to wonder with moves like this, how long anything not built to 3.7 standards will remain on the DLS and this is the opening salvo in a campaign to rid themselves of hosting Gb's of old and obsolete (in their eyes) content, or how long patches for TS2009/TS2010 etc. will remain available.

 

[ish6]

They ain't gonna do anything guys. You may as well save your typing fingers.

Good Morning Dave, and Trainzers ...

You know, I was thinking the same thing yesterday, and this is nothing new! When N3V did this years back I recall they did it on a Friday too, why, because they leave their offices to their comfy beds at home, and we're left in the dark to fight over what they left behind... no guidance or respect! --- When they return Monday we're all tired and beat up, and our minds stretch to the limit! This is the trainz world, but we do have two chooses! Leave or stay! But, they're smart, because those that have been around these parks a long time will stay... they know this!

That's reality, and we will be playing the same game in a few years from now when TANE becomes the old version, and we again will be left in the dark, and fence for ourselves to find that light out of the tunnel; And when we find that light, guess what... no change, no apologies, no respect! -- And the bottom line is respect!

Respect is everything in life, in the virtual world, at home, in the streets! -- And here, of all places, there is none! For me, it's never has been about changes, but it's about the respect that we deserve, because the DLS is ours, we built it, we created it... where would it be without us? Between Dave, Ben Dorsey, and Myself we have nearly 20,000 uploads! --- Hours, sleepless nights, lots of research we have place creating contents.... I, myself, not a scripted or a programmer, but a simple person creating simple objects for people to have fun with, etc .... and where's the respect? -- No where to be found!

Ish

 

[zeitlerj]

Looks to me that at this point, even though I fully intend to get my full version of T:ANE, I may not get a new version of Trainz ever. I definitely will put any content I do make on a separate site. But I am getting one point from all this, and I agree to it: GIVE US PROPER WARNING
If you can't keep your community happy, a community you will not have, and how, may I ask, is that for business?

 

[dragonharh]

Good Morning Dave, and Trainzers ...

You know, I was thinking the same thing yesterday, and this is nothing new! When N3V did this years back I recall they did it on a Friday too, why, because they leave their offices to their comfy beds at home, and we're left in the dark to fight over what they left behind... no guidance or respect! --- When they return Monday we're all tired and beat up, and our minds stretch to the limit! This is the trainz world, but we do have two chooses! Leave or stay! But, they're smart, because those that have been around these parks a long time will stay... they know this!

That's reality, and we will be playing the same game in a few years from now when TANE becomes the old version, and we again will be left in the dark, and fence for ourselves to find that light out of the tunnel; And when we find that light, guess what... no change, no apologies, no respect! -- And the bottom line is respect!

Respect is everything in life, in the virtual world, at home, in the streets! -- And here, of all places, there is none! For me, it's never has been about changes, but it's about the respect that we deserve, because the DLS is ours, we built it, we created it... where would it be without us? Between Dave, Ben Dorsey, and Myself we have nearly 20,000 uploads! --- Hours, sleepless nights, lots of research we have place creating contents.... I, myself, not a scripted or a programmer, but a simple person creating simple objects for people to have fun with, etc .... and where's the respect? -- No where to be found!

Ish

I couldn't agree more well said that's hitting the nail on the the head.
I will have to do some updating but I kindly saw this coming and prepared by updating my stuff for Tane weeks ago I don't have as many uploads but stell I know how you feel even stell I know most of my stuff works in tane what don't will be come scarp.

 

[dricketts]

Hmm... a lot to digest here from a route creator still using TS 2010. On one hand I understand NV3 wanting to get content up to date which is always a painful process. Can't we just update the content to TS 2012 SP1 standards and we're all good for a couple of years?

What about pre TS 2012 SP1 content already on the DLS? What happens with it when downloaded and installed in TANE?

Another observation. I haven't been overly impressed with any of the screenshots I've seen of TANE to justify all the fuss about higher standards for content. Yes I'm sure it's a bit better but it looks like the 5 year old TS 2010 with shadows, reflections, and longer draw distance. Not really anything close to the expectations I had when the TANE announcement was made over a year ago.

I appreciate the feedback...