kadanstcyr
Member
no i would like a game that is optimized. open your eyes and see how badly optimized trainz is. you can't just be telling people to just cap their fps in half as a bandage solution
Trainz 2022 performance is still so bad
- Thread starter kadanstcyr
- Start date
It's no bandage solution. I do this with Arma 3, Cities Skylines 1 and Cities Skylines II, and many other games and programs. I find the extra heat and wear and tear on the hardware didn't do anything to make much of a difference. With Arma 3, I had awful pauses and stutters with my venerable GTX1080TI and also with my RTX3080. The stutters occurred in the same places too on the maps I played which means it's something to do with the objects.
The difference with this program isn't just the graphics. It's the fact that users create everything including scripts, and everything else. If N3V controlled the assets, besides not having much to use, they would be optimized and run at full bore. The problem is there's not enough employees.
The fact that there is so much variability, that the best solution is to lower the graphics to prevent lugging and stuttering. The reason is this is the biggest hog of system resources on any system.
As I said, it isn't just the graphics. Scripts play a big part in the performance. The video card is also used for other things besides graphics. There are 100s if not 1000s of scripts running. Every signal, switch, crossing, and each and every component in your simplest locomotive are all loaded with scripts with 99.999% of it created by the community. This is true of every driver command, session rule, and everything else that makes the program operate. Open up your cache/libraries folder and take a look at what's cached.
Is their code optimized? Probably not. There's a lot of code that runs in compatibility mode. You can try optimized for performance but you'll run the risk of most scripted assets, here we go again with scripts, not operating properly.
Kvetching in the forums won't get you very far except for venting to people like me who are users just like yourself. I provided my solution and others will do the same, which is probably the same. After 20+ years of Trainz use for many of us here, I'm going on 20 years myself, I think we know what we're doing. Many of us come from tech backgrounds too with some of the older folks coming from the old mainframe world. I came from a hardware and systems realm with more than a decade as a hardware tech who repaired circuits for all kinds of hardware.
Anyway...
If you really want to make a difference, become a Plus member and then you'll have access to the beta testing where you can submit bug reports to your heart's content. In fact, you can do that now if you want. Be prepared to supply details upon details, with what occurs to cause the problem, etc. This isn't the matter of saying something's broken.
Trainz Bug Report
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n3vgames.typeform.com
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engineeral
Member
I am very pleased with the graphics performance in Trainz 2024PE compared to 2019.
Processor 12th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-12700K 3.60 GHz
Installed RAM 32.0 GB (31.8 GB usable)
System type 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor
Edition Windows 11 Home Version 23H2 Installed on 2024-02-02 OS build 22631.3880
GPU RTX-4080
I am running from a SSD.
Bitching about how bad the program is makes me think the OP is just a crank. Why not go try some other program? It's not like you paid a lot of money for the actual program.
Processor 12th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-12700K 3.60 GHz
Installed RAM 32.0 GB (31.8 GB usable)
System type 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor
Edition Windows 11 Home Version 23H2 Installed on 2024-02-02 OS build 22631.3880
GPU RTX-4080
I am running from a SSD.
Bitching about how bad the program is makes me think the OP is just a crank. Why not go try some other program? It's not like you paid a lot of money for the actual program.
kadanstcyr
Member
Thanks you for confirming that.
At the end of the day all im asking for is a solid 60fps. not 100, 200, or 300. literally 60fps. cutting my fps in half from 60 to 30 is a big noticeable difference. if i have a good gpu and cpu and meet all the system requirements and making sure i have no assets that have a crazy polly count and other stuff i should be able to run trainz at 60fps. there are so much users reporting terrible performance from trainz. Trainzs needs to be optimized, that's all i have to say.
Anyways.. i'll take a look at the link you provided.
kadanstcyr
Member
Bitching about what? saying what i'm experiencing? When i made a post a couple months ago about how bugged out the ai trains were the first reply i got was "
No problem here" when truly there was a nasty bug with the ai trains that many users reported. not because your not experiencing a problem in trainz doesn't mean other users are not experiencing it.
and "Why not go try some other program?" because i bought it and it was quite pricey and i've bought lots of locomotives for it.
It shows the variability with the program, scripts and code. Yes, they fixed the AI issues. In fact, it runs better than ever. If you find bugs, report them. As I said, kvetching here in the forums won't get them very far except for a pat on the back and maybe a shoulder to cry on. I'm not kidding. Report and report, and report using the link I provided.
johnwhelan
Well-known member
Trainz has a lot of end user created content some of it is sub optimal.
Can anyone give me the kuid of a very high poly asset without LOD on the DLS please.
I know there are one or two sketchup assets that normally kill performance. I'm after one to see how much it will kill performance. Thanks John
forums.auran.com
put a few of these in your route and I guaranty you it will bring any GPU to it's knees.
Understand you computer can only display a given number of polys in a screen. For commercial game the content makers are given a budget for the screen. This is not the case for Trainz.
Have fun
Cheerio John
Thank you for this:
Lossless Scaling on Steam
All-in-one gaming utility for scaling and frame generation
I'm going to give it a go and see what happens. For $6.99 it's worth a try.
The “proverbial nail was "hit on the head". N3V relies on FREE customer CONTRIBUTED products. Rarely do these talented people have several computers, or the time, to test various scenario's and options combinations. Just creating a regimen for proper testing would take several weeks, Plus the contributing artists do not have the actual coding of Trainz which is needed to create a test environment.
N3V would need to float a loan, or invite an investment, to secure the cash needed for a continuing testing regimen. Their accountants would cringe at this. It would be almost impossible to provide a truthful ROI (Return On Investment) needed to gain funding. They do the best they can with a very complex program. I see no way to dramatically improve the quality of the product or its inevitable updates. It is just a never-ending project.
N3V would need to float a loan, or invite an investment, to secure the cash needed for a continuing testing regimen. Their accountants would cringe at this. It would be almost impossible to provide a truthful ROI (Return On Investment) needed to gain funding. They do the best they can with a very complex program. I see no way to dramatically improve the quality of the product or its inevitable updates. It is just a never-ending project.
You don't need to disrespect the OP of this thread in that way just because you disagree with him. I'm surprised your comment has been allowed to stand (it didn't used to be the case). Members of our community are not 'cranks' because they have particular problems with the game. And, no, the performance he's getting with an RTX 4070 is not acceptable in TRS22. There could be all sorts of reasons for that (not least inefficient assets) but that doesn't make him a 'crank', so I think you should apologise for that unacceptable comment.
engineeral
Member
Thank you for your comment. In the past I have seen comments similar to mine that did not get any rebuke. I will be more careful in the future. Also, and I am not being disrespectful of you or your rebuke, how would you suggest folks respond when they think a poster is over the top in criticizing the game and its programmers?
Not to butt in but I hope my two cents can be accepted, word choice for one. But also in that little paragraph it really does sound like you're completely dismissing OP's problem. You can definitely say that you feel like someone is being over the top, but I dunno how far you're gonna get by saying someone complaining about a product they paid for not being satisfactory as "bitching". I wouldn't really say it is, $70 for a game leads to high expectations, and if those can't be met then a complaint as simple as poor performance on modern and powerful hardware is warranted.
Regardless, if you want to respond to someone you feel is being over the top, you should point out how small of a company N3V is, how they don't have the same amount of money for perfect optimization as other studios, how nearly every single asset is user-developed, and the overall small community that Trainz has (yea there's been a couple million copies sold, but how many people registered the game? especially older versions? how many of those people bought multiple versions? how many of those sales are on mobile, where - just based on iTrainz chat - most people haven't registered? etc). That's fine to say if you want to say that a poster is going a bit too far. Dismissing their criticism (if it's one that's reasonable like OP's) isn't a good idea.
Just my two cents.
Regardless, if you want to respond to someone you feel is being over the top, you should point out how small of a company N3V is, how they don't have the same amount of money for perfect optimization as other studios, how nearly every single asset is user-developed, and the overall small community that Trainz has (yea there's been a couple million copies sold, but how many people registered the game? especially older versions? how many of those people bought multiple versions? how many of those sales are on mobile, where - just based on iTrainz chat - most people haven't registered? etc). That's fine to say if you want to say that a poster is going a bit too far. Dismissing their criticism (if it's one that's reasonable like OP's) isn't a good idea.
Just my two cents.
engineeral
Member
I didn't mean to dismiss their problem or concern, but I see your point.
That is helpful for my comments in the future. Thank you.
I have also just looked up the contents of:
Code Of Conduct | Trainz Simulator
www.trainzsimulator.com
Lets see I have brought up several routes from tane into ts22 and also decided to create a new one in ts22 and basically I always focused over the years on using the same assets basically as far as textures, road, track etc... and the biggest issues I came across was a process of elimination experimenting in the new route such as scripted items like signals crossings turntables etc...
Of course the performance statistics I usually took with a grain of salt...
Bottom line is knowing your assets that you commonly use and yes its frustrating wasting hours of whatifs and whatnots....
Dave
I did after they showed every track asset I used, no matter who made it, as having the worst buffer count.
The unfortunate part is this is a combination of experience and process of elimination which leads to choosing assets carefully. Many of us have experienced awful lag with some routes and blamed the program only to find that some assets were pretty bad to start with.
A big part of this issue came about due to lack of error-checking in the past. Assets were created by users and never vetted for errors during the installation and then only at runtime, and that too was a cursory check. As more and more people created content, they copied each other's works, including some early built-in content with errors causing the problem to multiply.
As new versions of Trainz came out, they became stricter with faults. With Trainz being a rare program that can load previous versions of content, the program allows some leeway for older content due to older content not supporting the newer features with the stipulation as long as the old content meets the correct standard at time, then it'll load fine. This doesn't mean that all content is going to work well, and there are many older assets that lack LOD which leads me to one of my many experiences with this.
I've mentioned this before in other threads relating to bad content but it's worth mentioning again here. On my compact Gloucester Terminal Electric route, which is derived from George Fisher's Gloucester Terminal Railroad, I had one particular section where the program would freeze dead in its tracks but continue on okay beyond that section. Once that hiccup occurred, everything was okay afterwards. I got to a point where I would look at the area first before driving to ensure that the bug was out of the way, or look in another direction when I rode past that location.
Not being one to be satisfied, with a half-baked workaround I did some sleuthing meaning the process of elimination. In this very complex area of catenary, various other splines, buildings, a salt marsh, and plants were tons of things to pick, remove, and try. I deleted content and drove only to find something didn't work, and repeated this process for hours then one day I noticed something. In the Annisquam River were some very tiny buoys. In the scope of things, these would never be seen anyway, but they were there in the original. Just for kicks I deleted them and everything worked fine.
I don't remember who made the buoys but they had a huge number of polygons on them with no LOD causing the program to freeze for a minute until the assets were cached into memory. It's possible that the assets are fine and their mesh or textures were corrupted but anyway after removing those, the route runs quite nicely.
I was only going to ask about replacing billboard style trees with Speedtree varieties. That's what I thought I saw in the first video.
Also, have you tried bulk replacing track and trying out different ones?
I understand how it can be frustrating.
And my hat off to you for running twenty AI trains at any given time.
I can't even keep track of ten, and some of them have no idea how to drive to or navigate to their final destination despite simple signals, trackmarks, directional blocks. I think my favorite driver command in TRS22 is delete train because I have no choice but to fire the lost drivers.
Anyhow, I replaced my beloved older style trees from TRS10 after editing my imported routes into 22. Speedtrees seem to work better.
Also, have you tried bulk replacing track and trying out different ones?
I understand how it can be frustrating.
And my hat off to you for running twenty AI trains at any given time.
I can't even keep track of ten, and some of them have no idea how to drive to or navigate to their final destination despite simple signals, trackmarks, directional blocks. I think my favorite driver command in TRS22 is delete train because I have no choice but to fire the lost drivers.
Anyhow, I replaced my beloved older style trees from TRS10 after editing my imported routes into 22. Speedtrees seem to work better.
kadanstcyr
Member
thank you for your suggestion
, i tried that as soon as i seen your comment but it still made no difference. this is why i'm so confused of how i'm getting better performance in Trainz 19 compared to Trainz 22 if its a bad asset.For example i'll be using Trainz 19 with the Levi & Appalachian route. this map is really big and has a lot of assets scattered all over the route
In this video i randomly switch locations on the map, keep a good eye on the fps counter. the framerates that im getting is way more than acceptable considering the fact that i have the graphical settings on high and everything renders in almost instantly without having the need to pause the game, perfect!
In this video you can clearly see that the fps is getting heavily impacted by something in this area (even tho the fps was very good in the first video) and as i move away from the area my fps skyrockets back to normal but when i return back to that same area it drops dramatically. now its time to go hunt down the assets that's causing my fps to drop so low in this specific area
looking closely at performance statistics it says the worst buffer count and index count is <kuid:-25:1062>. when i searched it up it came up as TANE 1Trk Wood. anyone who used the performance statistics in the past already knows that a lie.
In this last video you can see me in surveyor mode looking for the asset that is causing my fps to go so low. as mentioned before sometimes the performance statistics doesn't really help
so my method is just moving the camera along the map and watching my fps very closely to what area has a major impact in performance. after looking around you can see me focusing the camera on some tanks and vehicles and boom there it is...the fps killer. after deleting those tanks and cars you can see my fps rise dramatically.
This is why i'm a bit frustrated because i totally understand the point of there being assets that are not optimized which would lead to bad performance, but the point that im getting bad performance in trainz 22 but good performance in trainz 19 using the same map is truly weird. i appreciate all the help that i get here but this is such a headache. That's why i wish the performance statistics would be a bit more accurate of finding a bad asset , or a bad script that is killing your fps. in the meantime i will stick with Trainz 19
If anyone is curious to know what the triangle count for one of those tanks it was 153,930 triangles for that one tank.
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Way back in the olden days, this was a method I used to check for bad assets. We had to use some key combination I forget now to allow us to walk or hover with the camera. Today, we have the walk and drone camera to do this automatically and I still do this periodically if I have an area on my route that have awful framerates compared to others.
After I landscaped and added buildings, I'd then go along at the ground-level and look around. If I had awful stutters, I'd then look for the culprit. Sometimes, this was done using the process of elimination. Towards the end I usually had a hunch which assets were the culprits and I then avoided certain assets from certain content-creators.
One of the worst assets, outside of the every so tiny buoys I mentioned before, turned out to be an asset called reeds, or reeds01. These highly detailed models of grassy cat-o-nine-tails would literally cause my system to halt when they came into view. After removing them or replacing them with dead grass, this increased the FPS substantially in those areas.