Train Town - FREE 7 day beta on Android, get it now!

[GDennish]

May I ask why you changed the wheel textures for Veteran?

Wii Variant:

Android:

The Wii wheel textures look much better.

There is also a UV error on the wheels also.

I've seen the artist you guys asked to make these models, but why change it if it was correct the first time?

 

[KingConrail76]

Always looking on the bright side of things aren't you

As the introduction stated, this product isn't aimed at our core Trainz Simulator audience. One review says "It would definitely be for kids" which is exactly who the product is aimed at (so we take that as a positive rather than negative).

The other talks about in-app purchases like they are the devil. We haven't decided on the final business model, but at some point money needs to change hands to pay for the product. On 90% of mobile products these days, that money changes hands after the product is installed.

The interesting thing is that people walk into a shop and there are hundreds (or thousands) of items for sale. Yet I have never once heard anyone say "I'm outta here - they want me to buy all this stuff - it would cost me thousands to buy everything and all I wanted was a chocolate bar."

With mobile products, you get to walk into the shop (download the game) and even eat chocolate (play the base game) for as long as you like. If you want anything other than chocolate, you have to pay. No-one accuses a shop keeper of being a thief for selling more than one item in his store.

All due respect Tony, but I think it is you who are not understanding the concerns of your commenters...
--You have a product aimed at young Teen, and more likely, PRE teen CHILDREN which offers and entices in-app purchases BY those MINOR CHILDREN.

I'd get yourself prepared for a lot of Charge-Backs by angry Parents.

I doubt very much that any adults here, would, or do, have a problem with making in-app purchases, that they themselves, as ADULTS, made the decision to purchase and pay for...
--I think you're way off base, and somewhat insulting to your adult forum members who have participated in this conversation, by making comments that indicate "we" are a bunch of "gimme for free" ingrates.

Blackie11 is correct, "Beta" versions of Apps, regardless of future implementation, generally have the "in-app purchase" options disabled. This is what YOU advertised, a "Beta" version, free to use for testing purposes.
--If you don't want to hear the critical reviews of those who expected to get what you advertised, maybe you should have just put out a "trial" version, with paid upgrade (This is actually the "standard practice" in the App world, by the way), rather than a "BETA" version...

 

[amigacooke]

My problem with this model is that you do not know how much it is going to cost you. I would prefer to download a 'demo' to see if it is a game I'd like to spend money on then have an in app purchase for the full cost.

I downloaded the mobile version of Dungeon Keeper and shortly after deleted it again when it became clear the game was unplayable without a constant injection of cash.

 

[Tony_Hilliam]

I'm sorry if I came across harshly towards anyone - text doesn't have "tone" attached to soften any of the words. I know there are many different business models and that it is different with kids vs teens vs adults. Our audience here are not likely to have access to a credit card, so any purchase will be by asking Mom or Dad to buy them some extras. They bought them the app in the first place, so making another purchase is what parents do (of course they won't all agree, but not all will say no either).

With the free trial + full price upgrade, the problem lies in the length and breadth of the trial offering (and results in "you only get X minutes" type complaints). We have tried the full price + no in-app purchases (My First Trainz Set), full price + in-app (Trainz Driver and Trainz Simulator), unlimited free trial and pay for more content (Trainz Trouble), time limit free trial and pay to unlock the full game (Trainz Driver Android). The market is constantly changing and different games also require different approaches. The good thing is that we have options available and if we don't get it right first time, we can tweak things later.

Oh, and by the way, you can now pay $2.99 for "Train Town" on Google Play and play it forever without spending anything extra. You get to use additional content for free for various time limits, and decide whether you want to pay for the extras at any time in the future. (Link might take an hour or so to activate).

 

[shaneturner12]

Tony - I'm hoping that the Train Town app has some form of requirement for the parent to authorise such in-app payments, as I know Apple ended up with big problems not too long ago and had to refund a lot of people after some form of lawsuit after their children ran up large bills, and it's likely that some parents set up their card details on their Google Wallet account.

It's a slippery slope offering in-app purchases for games aimed at children as there isn't a lot to prevent them running up large bills through such purchases.

Just my two cents.


Shane

 

[Tony_Hilliam]

I totally understand the sentiment although there isn't much the developer can do. Transactions are all handled by the store. In a major step forward, Apple just implemented family sharing... which solves a lot of the problems that were being caused by ensuring the "master account" is always notified prior to a purchase being made.

 

[shaneturner12]

Perhaps it may be worth seeing if there's something in the Android API system (or something Google can do) that works in a similar way in that case, if only to avoid problems later.

Shane

 

[phimat]

Really scraping the bottom of the barrel with this one. Next we'll have porn ads...

But one question: Why, if IoS app sells better than Andy for adults, do you aim for Andy children rather than IoS children. Will they be more easily suckered by your scam? Are Andy parents less caring of their children? (Or are there simply more children in that cohort?)

 

[amigacooke]

Really scraping the bottom of the barrel with this one. Next we'll have porn ads...

Oooooh naked trains! Look at the rust on that one!

*rushes off to have cooling oil shower*

 

[Tony_Hilliam]

Really scraping the bottom of the barrel with this one. Next we'll have porn ads...

But one question: Why, if IoS app sells better than Andy for adults, do you aim for Andy children rather than IoS children. Will they be more easily suckered by your scam? Are Andy parents less caring of their children? (Or are there simply more children in that cohort?)

iOS release relies on the Apple approval process while there is no process at Google Play so (as stated in the article on the home page) iOS is likely to be next week, so unfortunately there is no conspiracy theory regarding parent attitudes to their children based upon hardware choice.

What I would really love to know is exactly what barrel you think we are scraping here. Are you talking the focus of the product (kids)? The business model (which may well be modified in the future)? Is it that you see child-focused app less worthy of attention than a simulator? And how does any of this relate to porn ads?

Is your concern that we might make money? or lose money? I wonder which option would concern you more?

I would also love to understand more your concept of scam. In what way is a product which is sold at a known price with the clear statement regarding "Offers in-app purchases" for totally optional extras a "scam"? Surely there has to be hidden elements to qualify as a scam?

Are buyers of Trainz Driver or Trainz Sim for mobile being similarly scammed? The business model is pretty much identical. The vast majority of apps these days are based upon in-app purchases so perhaps all apps are scams?

Please feel free to continue the discussion because I am totally puzzled as to the nature of the hostility towards a really fun product (although perhaps you haven't tried it to find out?).

 

[KingConrail76]

I'm sorry if I came across harshly towards anyone - text doesn't have "tone" attached to soften any of the words. I know there are many different business models and that it is different with kids vs teens vs adults. Our audience here are not likely to have access to a credit card, so any purchase will be by asking Mom or Dad to buy them some extras. They bought them the app in the first place, so making another purchase is what parents do (of course they won't all agree, but not all will say no either).
..snip..

Tony, Thank you for addressing my summation, and clarifying your thoughts on the responsibility of payment.

 

[phimat]

iOS release relies on the Apple approval process while there is no process at Google Play so (as stated in the article on the home page) iOS is likely to be next week, so unfortunately there is no conspiracy theory regarding parent attitudes to their children based upon hardware choice.

What I would really love to know is exactly what barrel you think we are scraping here. Are you talking the focus of the product (kids)? The business model (which may well be modified in the future)? Is it that you see child-focused app less worthy of attention than a simulator? And how does any of this relate to porn ads?

Is your concern that we might make money? or lose money? I wonder which option would concern you more?

I would also love to understand more your concept of scam. In what way is a product which is sold at a known price with the clear statement regarding "Offers in-app purchases" for totally optional extras a "scam"? Surely there has to be hidden elements to qualify as a scam?

Are buyers of Trainz Driver or Trainz Sim for mobile being similarly scammed? The business model is pretty much identical. The vast majority of apps these days are based upon in-app purchases so perhaps all apps are scams?

Please feel free to continue the discussion because I am totally puzzled as to the nature of the hostility towards a really fun product (although perhaps you haven't tried it to find out?).

This kind of marketing plays upon the vulnerability and naivety of children. The point is that parents will feel pressured into paying for extra products that are little more than passing novelties to children. Think sweet racks at supermarket checkouts. All apps that do this are scams.

If it is such an honest marketing strategy, why don't you introduce it to the adult versions (the business models are not identical, as you well know)?

 

[KingConrail76]

This kind of marketing plays upon the vulnerability and naivety of children. The point is that parents will feel pressured into paying for extra products that are little more than passing novelties to children. Think sweet racks at supermarket checkouts. All apps that do this are scams.

If it is such an honest marketing strategy, why don't you introduce it to the adult versions (the business models are not identical, as you well know)?

To be fair, they have, in the form of DLC $$ add-on content for all versions of Trainz.

 

[Tony_Hilliam]

Phimat, I don't think you're going to convince me that creating a product for children is a bad idea nor that asking for money in return for people using the product is a bad idea either.

Sweets last for mere moments, while an app like Train Town can provide hours of enjoyment.

We've also decided to launch with a slight variation on the free trial so unlike sweets, you get a bag of sweet gameplay for free and you can get more every day for free.

If you own an Android device, you can now download the product for free and play it free forever. You can even enjoy content you haven't paid for but only for a limited time in each session.

 

[phimat]

Phimat, I don't think you're going to convince me that creating a product for children is a bad idea nor that asking for money in return for people using the product is a bad idea either.

Sweets last for mere moments, while an app like Train Town can provide hours of enjoyment.

We've also decided to launch with a slight variation on the free trial so unlike sweets, you get a bag of sweet gameplay for free and you can get more every day for free.

If you own an Android device, you can now download the product for free and play it free forever. You can even enjoy content you haven't paid for but only for a limited time in each session.

Not trying to convince you of anything. Leave that to your own conscience.

Btw checked PlayStore. Uploads +1. Only three comments, one by yourself. Oh dear...

 

[Tony_Hilliam]

My conscience is quite clear. We have invested in creating a product where we think there is an audience who will appreciate it. Clearly you aren't one of those, but you seem quite persistent in trying to find every negative response possible to throw at us.

Google Play algorithms take a while to populate - it still says "Not yet rated" in one part of the Train Town page while it shows 6 reviews in another (all 5 star btw).

I am not sure which account you think I have used to comment. Certainly not Ethan Nazareth who quoted "Epic In my opinion , i like this more than i like trainz" - unless of course you think I spend my time reviewing 100 other apps so that I can review our own app highly ... here is Ethans profile: https://play.google.com/store/people/details?id=100867563040691052310.

Are we expecting this product to be bigger than Trainz Sim? No. Do we believe there is an audience? Yes.

Since you have invested considerable time in the debate, can I ask if you have an Android device and if you have tried the app? If so I would be very interested in what you find good/bad or indifferent about the product (even though, I assume, you aren't in our target demographic).

 

[trainman7616]

I dont see why people are getting all butthurt over this. If you dont like the game then shut up about it and dont play and if you do like then keep playing. Its that simple.

 

[boleyd]

Why don't you get revenue in another manner. Why not offer a few levels of contribution from existing customers and a discount coupon for that amount when the new program is available NO development costs to cover and borrowing money at zero interest. So if I sent you $5.00US to help cover the development costs of the new program you would give me a $5.00US discount when I bought it. If I failed to buy it then you keep the $5.00. With this scheme you depend on the goodwill of the existing customers. There is the added benefit of gauging the market minus the hard cases who would not give you a dime until they see the "goods". Unless you can go the the "window" at the USA Federal Reserve you won't get cheaper money, while discounting an internal charge for managing the pre-payment process. Oh, there are no ongoing support costs...... And there is NO out-of-pocket costs when you allow me to download the new program. Discount programs on "none material" products can be beneficial.

There is so much CRAP on the Internet that your product marketing is benign compared to some.

 

[amigacooke]

Why don't you get revenue in another manner. Why not offer a few levels of contribution from existing customers and a discount coupon for that amount when the new program is available NO development costs to cover and borrowing money at zero interest. So if I sent you $5.00US to help cover the development costs of the new program you would give me a $5.00US discount when I bought it.

It might have a few more bells and whistles, but isn't that what KickStarter and similar schemes do?

 

[boleyd]

The pledge system is complex in terms of its "rewards". You want a scheme that is easily understood within less than a minute. I give you $5.00. You use it for the development term. Then return it to me by way of a product discount. It adds to the probability of a purchase and costs nothing out-of pocket for the vendor. It only reduces the revenue stream by $5.00, or whatever, when the purchase is made. A small price to pay for an interest free loan.

If N3V was producing tangible hard goods then it does not work as well. In that case there are hard production costs to cover per unit. With software there is no incremental hard cost per unit.

The idea, in this case, is an easily understood system of a loan to be repaid with a discounted product not some complex multi-tiered pledge scheme.