Tons of trouble with MicroDEM - HELP!

Blutorse4792

Now T:ANE I can get into
DEM ISSUES

I've managed to find another computer on which to operate MicroDEM. Unfortunately, since installing, the program is causing me nothing but grief. I'm using the tutorial located here, and the Complete Install of MicroDEM located here. It is MicroDEM 16.0, build 2012.4.30.1. I have also downloaded and installed HOG just as the tutorial explained...

Going step-by-step, I'll point out the trouble...

1. All of my DEMs have an obnoxious Key at the top, explaining the elevation colors (They are 10m DEMs)
2. The "In/Out" button is grayed out, so I am unable to merge the multiple DEMs I've downloaded from here.
3. The screen pixel size always comes out to 9.9 meters instead of 10 meters. The tutorial claimed that 10m DEMs already have a pixel size of 10m, but these do not.
4. Despite posters claiming otherwise, I am unable to save as a .tga (Not a huge problem, I'll convert it).
5. There is no "All TIGER" option under Overlay, the closest option is "Vector Outlines", and when I load the TIGER Data with that, it fails to appear.

This was as far as I made it before giving up. And no, switching to TransDEM is not an option.

Can anybody help?
 
Last edited:
9.9 seems normal unless you tweak the numbers slightly sorry forget what I tweaked.

To get rig of the elevation Colours, right click on the image > Legends/marginalia, untick everything in the Window that appears, then OK

To save as TGA appears to have been removed from the latest version, hmm

If you are running Win7 need as with Trainz, need to run as Administrator.

Older version of Microdem which should save to TGA I uploaded here a while back http://www.mediafire.com/?da9b7baa1mit5nq for someone who was having problems with fathoming out the latest one, should have the all Tiger Option in it as well.
 
Thank you for the link, I will report back once I've installed it and given it a try.

*EDIT 1* - Okay, it appears to be working fine with the older version of MicroDEM. I have not yet tried using HOG or bringing it into TRS, but most of the issues appear to have been solves (It is giving me 10.1 instead of 9.9 for pixel size, though I think that's just the computer being picky).
 
Last edited:
For Trainz use, you would be better off buying Transdem which is entirely geared towards what is required to get a terraformed and mapped route into Trainz. For the relatively small cost, infinitely better than any other method.
 
I'm actually having much more success with his older verison of MicroDEM.
It worked, I now have a perfect DEM route. Thanks Clam, you're a life-saver!
 
Last edited:
Alright, so I've got a DEM route and TIGER data into the game just fine. For the most part, it's largely accurate. However, there are certain discrepancies.

- The TIGER Lines do not always line up with the DEM itself. For example, the TIGER boundaries for Lake Michigan are often (approximately) 50-100ft away from the actual, physical drops where the lake should be. Is this to be expected?

- For the most part, the elevation is accurate, but there are certain spots where it seems too hilly over the tracks and roads. Are these elevations that I just don't notice in real life, or is it an issue stemming from using the more sensitive 10 meter DEMs instead of the 30 meter DEMs? It's almost like riding a roller-coaster at certain spots with fairly steep grades. I feel like an Illinois route should be a bit more flat.
 
Never used Tiger lines as we don't have any for the UK however I understand they are often a bit out. DEMs are only accurate to a point, you get some rounding off and flattening out and invariably have to do some adjusting in hilly or mountainous areas.
 
That's what I figured. I suppose I'll just use the terrain leveling tool around roads and right-of-way.
 
Last edited:
TIGER resolution can be way off, and you have to be careful, I have occassionally established it to be 'near enough' in a specific easily-found location like a track through a gully, or a river crossing, only to discover that it is way out on the same map just a mile down the road!

I use rivers as a rough guide - nothing in life is certain EXCEPT the river is always in the lowest spot in the valley. You can generally work out from there that the tiger is 50 meters north and 20 meters west (or whatever) of where it should be. I generally finish up laying tracks and roads parallel /offset/ to the Tiger rather than right on it. Having a FlashEarth or Google Earth window open at the same time and occassionally flicking back and forth can help, other times it just makes it more confusing!

On the 9.9 / 10.1 meter thing it's probably close enough, but the trick to getting it right on is to re-size twice! Go about 1/2 way first time, then hit it exactly on the second re-size. If that still hits 9.9, re-size 3 times (roughly 1/3, roughly 2/3, then nail it). I've never missed 10.0 yet!

Andy
 
Last edited:
Thank you for the info, Andy. Upon further inspection, I've been able to find enough familiar landforms to determine that all of the roads/tracks are approximately 660 ft. south and 660 ft. east of where they should be, which is resulting in a lot of the hills where the (relatively) flat roads/ROW should be. Is there any chance that getting it from 10.1/9.9 meters to an even 10 would help make up for some of the disparity?

Anyway, I'll try your strategy of determining the distance and laying them consistently offset.

A big thanks to everyone who provided input!
 
Last edited:
I don't think the scaling would change the Tiger location, MicroDEM overlays it (I think - pretty sure!) at any scale. It's just one of the things that makes HOG generated DEM maps less-than-perfect. I have gotten quite good at getting a couple of bits of track 'right' in obvious locations and just 'winging it' from there, then just laying roads so they look 'right' without too much atention to the Tiger lines at all.

If you want a better DEM outcome have a look for the TransDEM thread in the Payware forum - it's worth every penny and will give you much much better results - perfect in fact!
 
Relating my experience with Transdem, it is still not unknown to find the mapping or other surface data slightly out (by up to 70m) when transposing it on top. So you end up with rivers drawn up a hillside or similar. Two options, you either eyeball it or Transdem has a very useful feature which actually allows you to shift the DEM to achieve a better match with the mapping. There's probably a similar feature in Microdem but when I asked the question on their forum I was basically told to widdle off and read the Help pages (fine if you know where to look). Hence why I recommend Transdem.
 
For a US route, using USGS geo data, and processing it with TransDEM, results should be spot-on in almost every case. Known exceptions were e few of the DRG 1:24k topos form MS Research maps (TerraServer USA), but that service no longer exists.

Working with proper 1/3 arc sec NED DEMs, you'll find cuttings and embankments (high fills) in the DEM. (Unfortunately some nominal 1/3 arc NED DEM areas are upscaled lower resolution DEMs and do not offer such detail.) Applying correctly georeferenced 1:24k maps on top of the DEMs will nicely place the transportation arteries into or onto those cuttings and embankments.

The MicroDEM, HOG and TIGER process plays in a different league. That's mainly due to the error-increasing manual steps in the process and the limitations of HOG and TIGER. Among other shortcomings, HOG seems to apply some type of low pass filtering which abrades higher resolution DEMs. TIGER data scale is only 1:160,000, according to the specs, not the ideal source for building a Trainz route.
 
I have Transdem (Trainz version) but encountered a problem dealing with output from 3DEM and MicroDEM (v16.0). Both programs neglect to post certain entries in the files that Transdem can read, leaving them unusable. I'm using 10m SDTS dems that I acquired from USGS NationalMap site plus TIGER ALL-LINES shape files I downloaded from geocomm.com.

To reduce the clutter from TIGER, I recommend getting a copy of MapwindowGIS. (Open Source, so it's free.) It has excellent query and editing tools that allow you to create custom extracts of your TIGER data. (I must be a masochist attempting a route covering seven counties in two states, but that's another story.) Since the shape files created by MapwindowGIS are the same format as the original TIGER files, Transdem and MicroDEM have no problems reading the data.

Download MapwindowGIS from http://www.mapwindow.org/
 
Sorry but I utterly fail to understand why you would put Tiger data into TransDEM! It's like harnassing a racehorse to a tinker's cart.....

The great beauty of TransDEM is the ease with which you can import exact vector data so why settle for the 'orrible limitations of Tiger?
 
Back
Top