The future of Trainz: Part Deux.

JCitron

Trainzing since 12-2003
I watched the Microsoft Next Generation of Windows presentation today. {Link removed due to being removed by Microsoft}. Rarely have I been this excited after seeing a technical presentation. I think the last time this occurred was when I saw a Sun SPARC Workstation with a GUI and mouse instead of the old terminals and green screens. Seriously, it was quite fascinating to say the least, but there are some things that came out of this that made me think about Trainz and other games. There's some great technology for us PC users to look forward to in the future, but more importantly how is this going to impact us.

On the surface, if we're running current technology, nothing is going to be different other then the interface that we call Windows. Then again, i's going to be more of the same which we are used to. There is going to be more in-your-face connectivity, which seems to be aimed at the corporate collaborative crap which most of us no longer care about such as the integration of Skype and OneNote into a big business package. This reminded me of Oracle's Beehive Collaborative Suite with the drawing board, whiteboard, and video chat. I became quite familiar with this while at that company for quite a few years.

After the big blah about the corporate stuff and integration of Office on Windows phones, the first big announcement today was on the new DirectX12 technology. So much for DirectX11 which has now been implemented into TANE. With DX12 there will be supposedly another 50% again improvement in performance and loading of geometry and power savings at the same time. This means that video cards won't fry as they attempt to load up great 3d scenes and push the polys around. This of course will require the hardware behind it to make it happen, and I'm not sure who is making DX12 video cards just yet as I haven't looked too deeply after the presentation. What

That aside the more interesting thing to come out of this is their new HoloLens. http://www.microsoft.com/microsoft-hololens/en-us?ocid=ASPEN_SEM_bing_&cid=ASPEN_SEM_bing_

This is a brand new technology that will display holographic, 3-dimensional objects in live space. Yup. You can touch, manipulate, move around, and modify objects as though they exist in your room. This was quite a fascinating demo which I saw on the video, however, those that were there in person got some more behind the scenes view. What caught my eye though was some 3d models of buildings and trees. Then I thought... Imagine what could be done if Trainz was capable of making use of this new technology. Instead of having our 3d-world restricted to the confines of a monitor and instead be able to walk around the baseboard while we place our tracks and buildings, then eventually go for a drive. As we move along, the hardware will render in real time, our baseboards one after another with a nearly infinite distance, which is helped by the high-end GPU, CPU, and HPU (the new Holographic CPU) built into the system. These are all driven by the new Windows 10 technology and of course most likely DX12. The software developer has to write for this hardware so off-the-shelf, already created applications, won't use the new interface. Too bad though as that would open up a whole new computing world.

But imagine being in Surveyor as we build routes and reaching up and picking a building, an interactive industry, or perhaps some trees from a totally newly designed interface, and placing them with our hands on the ground instead of clicking with a mouse. We then get up and walk along our routes, or perhaps rise up above them as we place objects. I sat there daydreaming as Microsoft continued with its presentation, which at this point was only a recap of what was discussed before.

I know I could have placed this thread in the Parts and Labour forum, but there are many people who don't look at that part of the forums. This is going to be some exciting times coming ahead for us in the computer world.

John
 
Last edited:
Interesting, sort of Google Glass plus. Unless the others in the room are also wearing those glasses, they'll see someone seemingly waving their arms about in random directions, squeezing and pinching empty air. Sort of like now when you see someone having an animated conversation by themselves walking about until you notice an ear-bud and realize they are having a phone conversation. Better have plenty of free room or things around them will get hit and knocked over.

For Trainz, asset creation could be interesting but imagine the god like power and feeling of molding a world and placing objects by gesture alone. Plus since you wouldn't want to do it in full scale, walking a kilometer virtually would not be any more interesting than doing it in reality, you'd want to be able to fly around with ease without actually moving physically or you will need a very large play room. I imagine eventually you would want something like the holodeck from Star Trek the next generation. A fully formed and functional world custom designed and interactive, subject to voice command.
 
Holography the way to go

Hi john,

thanks for sharing and yes this is on my list for years just waiting for technology to mature and of course N3V to support.
Last year I told Ning and not for the first time, "I just would love to have holographic capabilities designing and running my routes".
Holography has a brite future far better than VR but thes are my 2 cents for what this is worth on the forum.
I sincerely hope to get my hands on working and do R&D in this segment a retirement hobby/dream for you and me, you know what i talk about no details here.

you have a great rest of the week my friend!!

Roy:cool:
 
I suppose waving your arms around is a bit more exercise than sitting at a desktop and moving a mouse. I remember when Quake came out and feeling slightly nauseous when ducking and weaving through the tunnels. So I can skip 3D TV and go straight to holographic TV? Can I have a holodeck in my house just like Captain Picard and his crew?

I'll get more excited when new technology means more than just another umpteen ways to take a selfie and upload it to Facebook.

The CNet brief says Win 10 will be a free upgrade for Win 7 and Win 8/8.1. Maybe Microsoft is going to bombard us with ads unless we pay a fee.

Sorry, I'm having a cynical day. :)
 
Google Glass has been a huge fail with techies. They're literally banned in most social settings in San Francisco. 95% of what Microsoft has done in the last 10 years has also been a huge yawner. 3D Tv's and movies have been an empty gimmick that is once again on it's way out. People do not want to wear glasses, goggles, etc...

This post is more like the "future of Microsoft" which is easily predictable: more worthless versions of Windows, more Office gimmicks that force people to spend money through mandatory upgrading. When it comes to innovation, Microsoft is an old caboose requiring constant maintenance.

Thanks for sharing!
 
You're not cynical at all, and the Facebook comment is something I think about whenever I hear about new technology. Technology has to be practical.
 
John,

nVidia is making DX12 available on all GTX 400 GPUs onwards which takes care of about 65% of PCs, and AMD GCN series. Should benefit laptops too.
Provided you have updated to WIN 10 should automatically be available for TANE by late 2015. However, the full benefits will only be realised when N3V codes to take advantage of the capability.
I note in the DX12 blogs that the gains come mainly from spreading the load across multiple CPU cores, and that DX11 has failed to do this. Could be why some of us are seeing high CPU useage.
Sounds like DX12 should be a mandatory stretch goal for TANE.
 
Last edited:
No doubt the holographic demo was in the most favourable of circumstances showcasing in the best light. But for day to day knitty-gritty? How will fine placement be achieved? It will be the same problems as tablets, but in 3D.

There was much excitement about Kinect, but we're still using the mouse and keyboard.
 
Last edited:
... 95% of what Microsoft has done in the last 10 years has also been a huge yawner. When it comes to innovation, Microsoft is an old caboose requiring constant maintenance.

Remember the Apple Newton, the Apple Lisa?

I remember attending an international technology conference back in 1990's. An Apple "Guru", who was flown in from the USA, was talking about and demonstrating (using a simulated version) the "next best thing" in Apple's vision of the future of human interface technology. It was a combination glove and goggles that you would wear to create a virtual 3D environment in front of you to perform all sorts of tasks. Obviously, Apple thought back then that everyone would want to wear goggles/glasses (and gloves).

Incidentally, do a Google search for Oculus Rift and you will find that 3D goggles are far from dead and on their their way out. Likewise, don't write off Google Glass, the scuttlebutt is that Google are going to move into Phase 2 of its development (and that does not involve the trash bin).

Question: Who won the war between Microsoft and Apple? Answer: Google.
 
John,

nVidia is making DX12 available on all GTX 400 GPUs onwards which takes care of about 65% of PCs, and AMD GCN series. Should benefit laptops too.
Provided you have updated to WIN 10 should automatically be available for TANE by late 2015. However, the full benefits will only be realised when N3V codes to take advantage of the capability.
I note in the DX12 blogs that the gains come mainly from spreading the load across multiple CPU cores, and that DX11 has failed to do this. Could be why some of us are seeing high CPU useage.
Sounds like DX11 should be a mandatory stretch goal for TANE.

Sure you really meant DX12 ;o)

Nvidia's take on the Announcement and confirmation that DX12 will be supported on 4xx cards upwards http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/03/20/directx-12/
 


The headset will only render IMAGES,not whole games - maybe in 20 years time

Daz
 
Last edited:
Google Glass has been a huge fail with techies. They're literally banned in most social settings in San Francisco. 95% of what Microsoft has done in the last 10 years has also been a huge yawner. 3D Tv's and movies have been an empty gimmick that is once again on it's way out. People do not want to wear glasses, goggles, etc...

This post is more like the "future of Microsoft" which is easily predictable: more worthless versions of Windows, more Office gimmicks that force people to spend money through mandatory upgrading. When it comes to innovation, Microsoft is an old caboose requiring constant maintenance.

Thanks for sharing!

Yes, this was all about Microsoft, but after all this was their event and demonstration of something new.

How does this impact us?

We have DirectX12 on the horizon which for people using new video cards it will be a boon. For us we're behind the eight ball again with DirectX11, and it took us how long to get here?

Windows 10 is the new Windows platform that Trainz will run on. Sure there is a Mac version, but for the majority of us, it's Windows. Windows 10 technology will be what we'll see going forward. Keep that in mind if you buy a PC within the next year or so.

What do you mean by worthless version of Windows? At least there are programs written to work on it, unlike Linux where everything has to be tweaked or homespun, scripted by hand, and installed after being extracted from a tar ball archive. Oh, this version of so-called worthless Windows is running all versions of previously written software, at least since Windows Vista, on my PC including TS12, Steam games, Origin Games, Office, and even TANE CE. And oh, this will be a freely available upgrade for those that want to upgrade their PC too.

The HoloLens is totally new, as I explained above, and it appears not to be a gimmick as you say. The JPL is already interested in it, and for game developers and 3d creation studios it opens up a totally new world for creativity. As has been said, imagine building a route that's laid out before you on the floor, or perhaps on a table instead of looking through a video screen. This isn't anything like Google Glass, which was more like a spycam mounted on a pair of window glass glasses. This is something completely different and capable of something totally different.


John
 
John,

nVidia is making DX12 available on all GTX 400 GPUs onwards which takes care of about 65% of PCs, and AMD GCN series. Should benefit laptops too.
Provided you have updated to WIN 10 should automatically be available for TANE by late 2015. However, the full benefits will only be realised when N3V codes to take advantage of the capability.
I note in the DX12 blogs that the gains come mainly from spreading the load across multiple CPU cores, and that DX11 has failed to do this. Could be why some of us are seeing high CPU useage.
Sounds like DX12 should be a mandatory stretch goal for TANE.

It looks like I missed that part of the presentation. I heard a brief clip on it, but had a network glitch with my lovely Comcast internet. This is good news for those that have programs that will support the new technology.

I agree this definitely should be more than a stretch goal for N3V to consider rather than something for the future. I too saw quite a bit of both heavy CPU and GPU usage while using TANE.

John
 
Back
Top