Surveyor 2.0 out of Beta?

[johnarran]

Now that Surveyor 2.0 is shipped with Trainz 22 Platinum Edition does this mean that S2.0 is out of Beta or are N3V selling a half finished product?
If further updates are to be made to S2.0 to fix its shortcomings would Platinum users get these updates?

Regards

John

 

[wreeder]

Well, yes and no. The TRS22 PE version of Surveyor 2.0 is by my estimate what Surveyor 2.0 was about 6 to 8 months ago plus a bunch of bug fixes. But the major features are that old. No HD terrain, no working color effect layer and a limited selection of built-in content in the Scrapebook. So yes it is out of Beta as far as no new features that are still under Phased Development™. But no as far what Surveyor 2.0 offers in Trainz Plus where new features are still being added and polished.
At this point of time, about 21 months into the development cycle, I would say that the Trainz Plus version of Surveyor 2.0 will likely be in TRS25. I look for TRS22 PE to get maybe one Service Pack before TRS25 is released around Christmas time next year. Since TRS22 Standard and Platinum seem to have the framework to support TLR if it is activated. There seems to be a good chance that it in its current limited version might come out in a TRS22 Service pack before TRS25.

 

[johnarran]

Well, yes and no. The TRS22 PE version of Surveyor 2.0 is by my estimate what Surveyor 2.0 was about 6 to 8 months ago plus a bunch of bug fixes. But the major features are that old. No HD terrain, no working color effect layer and a limited selection of built-in content in the Scrapebook. So yes it is out of Beta as far as no new features that are still under Phased Development™. But no as far what Surveyor 2.0 offers in Trainz Plus where new features are still being added and polished.
At this point of time, about 21 months into the development cycle, I would say that the Trainz Plus version of Surveyor 2.0 will likely be in TRS25. I look for TRS22 PE to get maybe one Service Pack before TRS25 is released around Christmas time next year. Since TRS22 Standard and Platinum seem to have the framework to support TLR if it is activated. There seems to be a good chance that it in its current limited version might come out in a TRS22 Service pack before TRS25.

Thanks for that. However, the UI still isn't fixed and there are other tweaks that still haven't been sorted. So in my eyes S2.0 is a half finished product.

Regards

John

 

[JCitron]

Thanks for that. However, the UI still isn't fixed and there are other tweaks that still haven't been sorted. So in my eyes S2.0 is a half finished product.

Regards

John

Like a lot of things in Trainz. I won't recite my old house under renovation analogy again. ;-)

 

[schwartz1]

Like a lot of things in Trainz. I won't recite my old house under renovation analogy again. ;-)

Do they know that Super Elevation is broken? The track doesn’t tilt like it can in 19’

 

[PortLineParker]

Strange, I've seen a few users say this about superelevation/cant but in my install (Trainz+, build 122411) cant is working as normal - the track is tilted and the cab view moves with the cant. I haven't changed any settings or messed with the cant figures so not sure why this is happening. Surely I can't be the only person who it works for, so wonder if anyone else has seen this?

Cheers,

PLP

 

[wreeder]

Thanks for that. However, the UI still isn't fixed and there are other tweaks that still haven't been sorted. So in my eyes S2.0 is a half finished product.

Regards

John

I agree but as far as TRS22 PE concerned it is out of beta cause it has been released which as any of us that have been along for the ride knows is quite different from being finished. As I understand it, "Phased Development"™ means that no feature of Trainz is ever truly finished. They can always revise and improve any feature down the road.

 

[JCitron]

I agree but as far as TRS22 PE concerned it is out of beta cause it has been released which as any of us that have been along for the ride knows is quite different from being finished. As I understand it, "Phased Development"™ means that no feature of Trainz is ever truly finished. They can always revise and improve any feature down the road.

Of course. This is exactly what I'm referring to as well. The old house with a brand new pool in the back yard but still has the leaking roof from a decade ago.

 

[jhdale65]

seems all products are never finished guess they run out of money

 

[amigacooke]

Well, yes and no. The TRS22 PE version of Surveyor 2.0 is by my estimate what Surveyor 2.0 was about 6 to 8 months ago plus a bunch of bug fixes. But the major features are that old. No HD terrain, no working color effect layer and a limited selection of built-in content in the Scrapebook. So yes it is out of Beta as far as no new features that are still under Phased Development™. But no as far what Surveyor 2.0 offers in Trainz Plus where new features are still being added and polished.
At this point of time, about 21 months into the development cycle, I would say that the Trainz Plus version of Surveyor 2.0 will likely be in TRS25. I look for TRS22 PE to get maybe one Service Pack before TRS25 is released around Christmas time next year. Since TRS22 Standard and Platinum seem to have the framework to support TLR if it is activated. There seems to be a good chance that it in its current limited version might come out in a TRS22 Service pack before TRS25.

So it seems N3V are trying every way they can to make the retail versions less attractive than subscription versions. Subscription by the back door?

 

[sw1500]

Cants that were added in previous Trainz versions will stay canted in Trainz 22, but if you try to change this to a different amount the tracks themselves will go to zero cants. In UMR summer I notice that the curves were canted an unrealistic amount, so I tried to change them to something better. When I changed them to a better cant, the track changed to a flat curve instead.

 

[wreeder]

So it seems N3V are trying every way they can to make the retail versions less attractive than subscription versions. Subscription by the back door?

Well, I guess if we are guilty of expecting otherwise than that might be a reasonable conclusion to reach. Of course, we would be wrong.

 

[JCitron]

Do they know that Super Elevation is broken? The track doesn’t tilt like it can in 19’

Probably not. Report the issue via the type-form bug report. Put in as many details as you can. You can insert video links, sample routes, and images if needed.

Trainz Bug Report

Turn data collection into an experience with Typeform. Create beautiful online forms, surveys, quizzes, and so much more. Try it for FREE.

n3vgames.typeform.com

 

[schwartz1]

Probably not. Report the issue via the type-form bug report. Put in as many details as you can. You can insert video links, sample routes, and images if needed.

Trainz Bug Report

Turn data collection into an experience with Typeform. Create beautiful online forms, surveys, quizzes, and so much more. Try it for FREE.

n3vgames.typeform.com

Thanks for the tip. I didn't know I could submit a bug report for specific issues. I am used to letting the devs know in the forums on an issue (as with other games or software)

I submitted the report yesterday, but not sure it will be addressed as I think I read somewhere that the issue was fixed in a beta? (how often do they release stable/retail builds?)
I'm hoping it's not a Trainz Plus only thing, while I got a year of it free with my copy, I am not going to subscribe to use this software (it's why I bought Platinum so I could get S20)

 

[JCitron]

Thanks for the tip. I didn't know I could submit a bug report for specific issues. I am used to letting the devs know in the forums on an issue (as with other games or software)

I submitted the report yesterday, but not sure it will be addressed as I think I read somewhere that the issue was fixed in a beta? (how often do they release stable/retail builds?)
I'm hoping it's not a Trainz Plus only thing, while I got a year of it free with my copy, I am not going to subscribe to use this software (it's why I bought Platinum so I could get S20)

Please do post here in the forums too because it gives others a heads up on what's going on. It might be a one-off thing you're seeing, or it could be one of those things that everyone is seeing. The thing is the Devs are pretty busy and rarely, rarely poke their noses in here, so the best bet always is to submit a bug report.

You'll get an email from someone on the team and they'll work with you directly to resolve the problem or at least let you know that they've been aware of the problem and it'll be fixed at some point. Remember too their weekend overlaps ours, so it's the wee hours right now Sunday in Australia. There is a possibility that the current beta has that fixed. If you have disk space, install a new copy of Plus and create a test database. The database doesn't have to be anything more than the built-in assets. You'll be able to test and try new things and even report bugs using that same form I linked.

S20 is better in Plus since the version is slightly ahead and you'll have the opportunity to try new things as they come out, so keep that in mind should you consider dropping back to TRS22-Platinum. This is how it works and has since TRS19 came out. Plus came along and that changed everything.

Previously, there was the Trainz Dev Group. We worked directly with the programmers and tested versions and features prior to being released to the public. If you have T: ANE and used early versions of TRS19, the ability to access train consists and add in or modify trains directly from Driver was one of the things we saw right away. This was replaced by UDS but many of us preferred the old train-only access. The new MPS was tested way in the early days too. We saw it firsthand before it ever became a reality. It was quite buggy back then too and the real pre-Alpha testing wasn't available for long because it was proof of concept. We even created an announcement sticky where I could post information on what was going on. I likened the setup as us being testers in the labs playing with different colored tubes of liquid because things that we tested may or may not make it into the full product as we were told. In the end, the things we tested did become reality after all.

 

[schwartz1]

Please do post here in the forums too because it gives others a heads up on what's going on. It might be a one-off thing you're seeing, or it could be one of those things that everyone is seeing. The thing is the Devs are pretty busy and rarely, rarely poke their noses in here, so the best bet always is to submit a bug report.

You'll get an email from someone on the team and they'll work with you directly to resolve the problem or at least let you know that they've been aware of the problem and it'll be fixed at some point. Remember too their weekend overlaps ours, so it's the wee hours right now Sunday in Australia. There is a possibility that the current beta has that fixed. If you have disk space, install a new copy of Plus and create a test database. The database doesn't have to be anything more than the built-in assets. You'll be able to test and try new things and even report bugs using that same form I linked.

S20 is better in Plus since the version is slightly ahead and you'll have the opportunity to try new things as they come out, so keep that in mind should you consider dropping back to TRS22-Platinum. This is how it works and has since TRS19 came out. Plus came along and that changed everything.

Previously, there was the Trainz Dev Group. We worked directly with the programmers and tested versions and features prior to being released to the public. If you have T: ANE and used early versions of TRS19, the ability to access train consists and add in or modify trains directly from Driver was one of the things we saw right away. This was replaced by UDS but many of us preferred the old train-only access. The new MPS was tested way in the early days too. We saw it firsthand before it ever became a reality. It was quite buggy back then too and the real pre-Alpha testing wasn't available for long because it was proof of concept. We even created an announcement sticky where I could post information on what was going on. I likened the setup as us being testers in the labs playing with different colored tubes of liquid because things that we tested may or may not make it into the full product as we were told. In the end, the things we tested did become reality after all.

I got a response, a very short response that basically says "we know about the issue, it's been fixed and will be released in a future update"

Very blunt with no info on when to expect the update tho

I ran into another bug today though, this time with grades. It seems the tracks when you set a gradient, it does the grade as you drag out the splines to where you want them, but then when you click to place them, the gradient goes away and it just lays on the ground as it is. I don't get how this was broken since the original beta where if you put in the grade degree, it would place the track regardless of where the ground was, even if the track was in the air...

Is anyone aware of that? or maybe I am just not placing the track correctly for the gradient to "stick"

 

[JCitron]

I got a response, a very short response that basically says "we know about the issue, it's been fixed and will be released in a future update"

Very blunt with no info on when to expect the update tho

I ran into another bug today though, this time with grades. It seems the tracks when you set a gradient, it does the grade as you drag out the splines to where you want them, but then when you click to place them, the gradient goes away and it just lays on the ground as it is. I don't get how this was broken since the original beta where if you put in the grade degree, it would place the track regardless of where the ground was, even if the track was in the air...

Is anyone aware of that? or maybe I am just not placing the track correctly for the gradient to "stick"

I'm glad you got a response and a good one too. At least you know the fix will appear sooner than later.

My usual luck is, "hey that's a good one, but it'll be a while until because the fix will require a complete rewrite.", or as usual it's one of those things that only occurs in my setup and I can repro the problem hundreds of times but when I have N3V check it out, everything goes fine.

I recommend submitting a bug report on the gradient issue. I rarely use the apply grade and have always adjusted my grades manually since I have better control over them.

 

[pware]

I got a response, a very short response that basically says "we know about the issue, it's been fixed and will be released in a future update"

Very blunt with no info on when to expect the update tho

It is probably wise not to give a specific date for the release of a fix. All sorts of things can go wrong between the fix and the promised date. Then you get bombarded with complaints about it not being released on the date promised - have we all forgotten the dramas over the much delayed release of T:ANE?

I usually, but not always, get a non-automated response from the Devs for my bug reports. I am still waiting on one for my latest report but for my previous one they confirmed the existence of the bug, that it had now been fixed but that the fix was too late for the next release. It would be in the following release (which it was).

For the last few weeks there seems to have been a new fix released each Friday (local time) - but now that I have stated that there probably won't be another for a few weeks.

 

[schwartz1]

It is probably wise not to give a specific date for the release of a fix. All sorts of things can go wrong between the fix and the promised date. Then you get bombarded with complaints about it not being released on the date promised - have we all forgotten the dramas over the much delayed release of T:ANE?

I usually, but not always, get a non-automated response from the Devs for my bug reports. I am still waiting on one for my latest report but for my previous one they confirmed the existence of the bug, that it had now been fixed but that the fix was too late for the next release. It would be in the following release (which it was).

For the last few weeks there seems to have been a new fix released each Friday (local time) - but now that I have stated that there probably won't be another for a few weeks.

Do I have to be using Trainz Plus to get the update tho? I only have PE installed

 

[pware]

Since Trainz Plus and TRS22, and especially TRS22PE, share the same computer code, I would suspect that any fix released for Trainz Plus would be followed, after due testing, by a fix for the TRS22 versions - but that is an assumption on my part.