It's to be expected. Any of mention of Steam here and you'll hear cries of "Great Satan!" You should have seen it coming. The same hate-it-don't-want-it-never-gonna-run-it responses come up at the mention of Windows 8.
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Steam sale
- Thread starter nfitzsimmons
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It's to be expected. Any of mention of Steam here and you'll hear cries of "Great Satan!" You should have seen it coming. The same hate-it-don't-want-it-never-gonna-run-it responses come up at the mention of Windows 8.
At the risk of inflamming the discussion even further, I have to say that I LOVE my Steam. I can't imagine gaming without it, in fact.
I used to be a die-hard CD/DVD guy - I had to be dragged kicking and screaming into Steam (it was Empire:Total War that did it - even though it came on DVDs, it HAD to install and use Steam, which INFURIATED me at the time!).
At first, I was really annoyed by Steam. What is this stupid overlay that runs over all my games?!? Oh wait, I can shut it off... ok then. And what's this?? It's automatically updating my games?? Well, that's actually really awesome 99% of the time, but it sucks for that 1% exception... but it turns out, I can turn off automatic updates, on a game-per-game basis (and enable beta patches on a game-per-game basis too - cool!)
But the BIGGEST wake-up call happened when I started checking out the store, just for fun, and hit the Steam Summer Sale... WOW. I was like a kid in a candy store, but the entire store was 50-80% off! I picked up a ton of games... I think I ended up getting about 13 or 14 games for $100... a steal. And these were quality games, that's I'd seriously considered buying (and I still hunt the big Steam sales - I picked up Batman Arkham City - Game-of-the-Year Edition, for $7.50 the other day... score!)
And I'll second the opinion stated above by nfitzsimmons that a major advantage is convienience when you re-install your computer. This is something that's (thankfully) not as common as during the Win98 days, but I still need to completely wipe and re-install Windows every 18 months or so. Being able to just load Steam, and tell it to download, install and patch all of my 200+ games all by itself is worth a LOT to me.
Having said that, I know that some people will never touch Steam with a 10-foot pole, and that's fine. But I just thought I'd give my 2 cents as to why I think Steam is among the most valuable sofware on my computer.
(BTW - I was a long-time Trainz user - I bought the Original Auran version back in 2002, I think? - but I had put it aside for many years. The Steam sale convinced to get back into it - for 15$, I got Trains 2012 and Murchison 2, which is amazingly brilliant, btw).
I used to be a die-hard CD/DVD guy - I had to be dragged kicking and screaming into Steam (it was Empire:Total War that did it - even though it came on DVDs, it HAD to install and use Steam, which INFURIATED me at the time!).
At first, I was really annoyed by Steam. What is this stupid overlay that runs over all my games?!? Oh wait, I can shut it off... ok then. And what's this?? It's automatically updating my games?? Well, that's actually really awesome 99% of the time, but it sucks for that 1% exception... but it turns out, I can turn off automatic updates, on a game-per-game basis (and enable beta patches on a game-per-game basis too - cool!)
But the BIGGEST wake-up call happened when I started checking out the store, just for fun, and hit the Steam Summer Sale... WOW. I was like a kid in a candy store, but the entire store was 50-80% off! I picked up a ton of games... I think I ended up getting about 13 or 14 games for $100... a steal. And these were quality games, that's I'd seriously considered buying (and I still hunt the big Steam sales - I picked up Batman Arkham City - Game-of-the-Year Edition, for $7.50 the other day... score!)
And I'll second the opinion stated above by nfitzsimmons that a major advantage is convienience when you re-install your computer. This is something that's (thankfully) not as common as during the Win98 days, but I still need to completely wipe and re-install Windows every 18 months or so. Being able to just load Steam, and tell it to download, install and patch all of my 200+ games all by itself is worth a LOT to me.
Having said that, I know that some people will never touch Steam with a 10-foot pole, and that's fine. But I just thought I'd give my 2 cents as to why I think Steam is among the most valuable sofware on my computer.
(BTW - I was a long-time Trainz user - I bought the Original Auran version back in 2002, I think? - but I had put it aside for many years. The Steam sale convinced to get back into it - for 15$, I got Trains 2012 and Murchison 2, which is amazingly brilliant, btw).
wow, so you would rarther have to scrape around manualy updating all your games, managing pathes and save files, making sure all file integrity is secure and having to use useless 3rd party DRM which will always be sub standard to steams DRM. now say you only have 3 games, steam dosent make sense, buying it from the distributor makes more sense, but when you have about 300, steam makes your life a whole lot easier.
I'd rather use NO DRM, Steam or Third-Party. Hence, the whole reason to avoid Steam and buy from N3V.
But the BIGGEST wake-up call happened when I started checking out the store, just for fun, and hit the Steam Summer Sale... WOW. I was like a kid in a candy store, but the entire store was 50-80% off! I picked up a ton of games... I think I ended up getting about 13 or 14 games for $100... a steal. And these were quality games, that's I'd seriously considered buying (and I still hunt the big Steam sales - I picked up Batman Arkham City - Game-of-the-Year Edition, for $7.50 the other day... score!)
And I'll second the opinion stated above by nfitzsimmons that a major advantage is convienience when you re-install your computer. This is something that's (thankfully) not as common as during the Win98 days, but I still need to completely wipe and re-install Windows every 18 months or so. Being able to just load Steam, and tell it to download, install and patch all of my 200+ games all by itself is worth a LOT to me.
As mentioned above, this can be done with N3V's Digital Download version too, WITHOUT the hassles of the DRM, forced updates, being unable to use your game without the activation servers, etc.
Edit: You might have missed the 75% off sale at SimCentral but I got a lifetime FCT, TS2009, and pretty much every DLC they sell for ~ $100.
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nfitzsimmons
New member
I will mention that I bought my Trainz 2009 as a digital download direct from N3V and it took over 14 hours to download. Downloading 2012 from Steam took a little over 2 hours.
And if you don't want "forced updates" just turn them off for each game you don't want updated. And you can turn off internet access for Steam completely if you want, once you've installed and activated your game.
But as I said above, Steam is a personal choice, and everyone can make their own decision as to whether to use it.
On the other hand it would be a little more polite for people to post here why they do or don't like it personally instead of pontificating about why it's good or bad for everyone.
And if you don't want "forced updates" just turn them off for each game you don't want updated. And you can turn off internet access for Steam completely if you want, once you've installed and activated your game.
But as I said above, Steam is a personal choice, and everyone can make their own decision as to whether to use it.
On the other hand it would be a little more polite for people to post here why they do or don't like it personally instead of pontificating about why it's good or bad for everyone.
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As mentioned above, this can be done with N3V's Digital Download version too, WITHOUT the hassles of the DRM, forced updates, being unable to use your game without the activation servers, etc.
...yeah, but it'll only re-intall Trainz. With Steam, I say "go", and it re-installs EVERYTHING. Very convinient, if you have a lot of games.
A few myths to dispell:
1) DRM with Steam is the same as DRM without Steam. If the program has no DRM outside of Steam, it has none in Steam either. In fact, Steam forces some producers to drop over-bearing DRM (Starforce anyone?) and use something more suitable. And I NEVER have to search for my CD to play. And I never lose a CD-Key (they're all in Steam).
2) You don't need to be online (or have access to Steam's servers) to play a game - as long as the game's been fully downloaded, of course. Steam has had an off-line mode for years now.
Again, I'm not trying to change anyone's mind here - some people just hate Steam with a passion. But I feel I need to correct some fo the misconceptions out there... it really does work great.
shaneturner12
Tutorial Creator
I need to point out a potential problem. You mention that Steam has an offline mode - this is true, but it is not foolproof, and you do have to connect to the Steam network once every few weeks or so as a result.
Shane
Shane
I need to point out a potential problem. You mention that Steam has an offline mode - this is true, but it is not foolproof, and you do have to connect to the Steam network once every few weeks or so as a result.
Shane
I believe that if steam thinks you should have an update whether you want it or not, like the issue I mentioned before with Railworks 13, it won't let you play off line until you do the update.
When I had Trainz 2009 from Steam I moved it out of the Steam directory and run the Launcher in the "bin" directory. That bypasses the Steam.I need to point out a potential problem. You mention that Steam has an offline mode - this is true, but it is not foolproof, and you do have to connect to the Steam network once every few weeks or so as a result.
Shane
Probably the same with TS12 from Steam.
Harold
shaneturner12
Tutorial Creator
That is true, but it's worth people being aware of the potential problem.
Shane
Shane
JFDman;10761501) said:DRM with Steam is the same as DRM without Steam. If the program has no DRM outside of Steam, it has none in Steam either. In fact, Steam forces some producers to drop over-bearing DRM (Starforce anyone?) and use something more suitable. And I NEVER have to search for my CD to play. And I never lose a CD-Key (they're all in Steam).
The better solution is not to have DRM at all, whoever's it is. A CD key is simple enough - it's in your profile, or you can save it to a text file (which is what I do), whatever - and doesn't constitute DRM. Also, unless things have changed recently, those who bought Trainz through Steam had to at least "activate" Trainz (or at least the Steam client), if only once, despite the original sim having no DRM. It really doesn't matter. Some of us don't have internet connections at all times, or ever, on our gaming machines.
One of Trainz' greatest advantages is it's portability, which is due directly to the lack of DRM.
When I had Trainz 2009 from Steam I moved it out of the Steam directory and run the Launcher in the "bin" directory. That bypasses the Steam.
Probably the same with TS12 from Steam.
Harold
That raises an interesting point: Several people's key arguments made upthread is the "convenience" of Steam. Going fiddling with moving directories isn't very convenient, not to mention can be very time-consuming, especially if you have a lot of content.
Why would anyone buy Trainz from Steam, with all the known issues with it?
The same people that buy a $379 laptop, or a $89 tablet on sale, at a Big Box Store, on Black Friday, and waited in line, out in the cold, for 36 hours, just in order to save a couple of bucks.
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nfitzsimmons
New member
The same people that buy a $379 laptop, or a $89 tablet on sale, at a Big Box Store, on Black Friday, and waited in line, out in the cold, for 36 hours, just in order to save a couple of bucks.
So it's important to you that you pay full price for everything you buy?
The same people that buy a $379 laptop, or a $89 tablet on sale, at a Big Box Store, on Black Friday, and waited in line, out in the cold, for 36 hours, just in order to save a couple of bucks.
So true! I wonder how much work these people miss to get their "bargain"!
nfitzsimmons
New member
I believe that if steam thinks you should have an update whether you want it or not, like the issue I mentioned before with Railworks 13, it won't let you play off line until you do the update.
Careful, Bob. You just admitted that you bought a game of which we do not speak. Now you'll be cast into outer darkness.
nfitzsimmons
New member
So true! I wonder how much work these people miss to get their "bargain"!
My point is that if the Steam version of 2012 is too much of a hassle I'll just soldier on with my 2009 version and write off the 10 bucks I paid for 2012 for the time being. I'd feel differently if I'd paid $40.
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