SP1... as bad as they say?

[mikeaust]

I finally installed SP1 a couple of weeks ago as a fresh install. I still have my Pre Sp1 and other versions.
I did all the right things when installing. with firewall etc and even turned off the internet. Patched all the way before using it.
I still run TS12 with most of my content there. I found a lot of things that have been dropped between TS12 and SP1, so I just import from my other versions.
There has been very few problem assets, maybe because most were already fixed in TS12. I have only had half a dozen assets with thumbnail problems. I have a dummy thumbnail.jpg sitting on the desktop to put in any that come along.
The pauses are irritating sometimes but I know they are just the database updating or validating. I just leave it alone and it sorts itself out in time. The world today needs everything to happen instantly....no more time to sit and smell the flowers. I think that impatience causes most of the hassles.
I installed SP! with the single job of merging route, that I have been unable to do in TS12.
Would I change over to SP1 completely? the answer is no. It serves the purpose for what I do.I also have a large catalogue of assets at my fingertips to call on, before going externally.
I still wont be worrying about Tane for a few years, let lemmings sort all the problems. Even with TS12 it was about 3 years before I changed, same with 2010. I think that is why I have had a good run with all my versions.
I don't believe in updating because a new model comes out, if the old model still does the job. I still use a 12 year old mobile phone that makes calls and does SMS, that is all I need so why get the new fangled unit with all the bells and whistles I will never use.
The only real hassle I have with SP! is that it takes a long time to wake up the squirrels to get the ball rolling. I sometimes have to click a dozen times just to get the option screen on startup. Again if I leave it and come back later the screen is usually there.
So to each his own, some love it, some have had no problems, others have nothing but hassles. Computers are like people and no 2 are completely the same, so different people will have different experiences. So just suck it and see.
Cheers, Mike

 

[H222]

I installed SP1 this week, had all kinds of problems, and tried rolling it back and Trainz said the data base was corrupted and I needed to reinstall Trainz. I deleted the entire Install, and purchased Run 8. Couldn't be happier.

Cya Later :wave:

 

[Falcus]

Alright, I'm gonna do it this way in an effort to analyze the situation and try to clear up what I believe to be some misunderstandings. I might be unsuccessful in this, and I'll apologize in advance if that occurs... So here goes:

Firstly, from what I have been reading I am still getting the "get over it" jibberish (at least that is how I am interpreting it)

I do not recall reading anywhere that anyone in this thread to date has said anything to the effect of "Get over it". Several, including myself have made suggestions about how to deal with conflicting opinions from your own, but nobody I've seen has told you to "Get over it" or anything of the sort.

.First attempt from 4 months ago. Was suggested I make a fresh install. I did, patched, copied all my content from my current build, no go
.Second attempt. Copied current TS12 folder so I had 2 identical programmes, both worked. Patched one, same problem.
.Third attempt. Fresh install, installed content, patched with new patch install (note different from first attempt), same problem.
.Final attempt. Fresh install, patch, add one 3rd party route, game crashes.

Ok, and thought this is interesting, it doesn't really help us help you.... What does "No Go" mean? And honestly, if you haven't given up on SP1, going forward, right now, we're not too interested in whats happened in the past, but what happens now, in the present with your next attempt. Please include your basic Computer Information, and case Examples of assets that are having issues. We cannot analyze issues and help you solve them if you don't tell us specifically what the issues are...... Running Trainz on XP is Vastly different then running it on Win8, particularly if you're running Era appropriate Machines (XP machines are going to have less available resources then Win8 In general). If you need help in any way collecting this information, we can even help you in that regard.

It should also be mentioned, that there are things you can do before hand to help prepare for a new Install. Please, ask questions and get some answers before just jumping in. There isn't a week that goes by where you don't see at least 2+ people asking for help in General or Parts & Labor about how to install or how to fix a new install, of 61388.

For those telling me that I should stop dissing SP1HF4, tell me, have you tried installing and patching a game four times and still get the same result? You you ensured every single item of content is error free and thumbnail compliant before attempting to play, only to be dismayed to see each attempts yields no positive results. As I have said, there is nothing to suggest this should happen; no errors from the Traindiag, no errors in content manager, even a fresh patch download (which I believe was something like 1.5GB) and each time I growl in frustration whenever I try to fix the problem.

No single person to my knowledge has ever done anything like what you're describing.... And yet the majority of users here are still on working TS12 Build 61388.... Nobody needs to, nor should have to, do anything like what you describe. As for suggestions from the program that are going to be issues.... Thats a conversation thats best held until you have an install of TS12 61388 ready to roll so we can cover step by step what to look for and how to fix anything that arises from it.

I should point out I am not giving up on SP1 (where, big surprise ain't it) but it's a hard ask to keep dealing with a problem that shouldn't be there, especially considering this is meant to fix problems, not cause them.

Its good to hear you haven't given up on it. Presumably you're made this thread entirely because you want to keep up with the newer versions of Trainz.... We have a community here, and if we didn't want to help, we wouldn't be here.... Even the most passive people here are here for the people, because ultimately there isn't a whole heck much else on a Forum (Yea, ok, information, but supplied by people).

Good Luck,
Falcus

 

[pdkoester]

Be nice guys...

As I have experienced similar problems with other software, totally unrelated to simulation and not on Windows platform, it is better to get an installer that is already higher revision/build number. So, that is why I had made my suggestion earlier. You guys should not pick on timothetoolman, he's done nothing but good. He's a great content creator, too.

Paul

 

[Timothetoolman]

The issue has been resolved (finally) thanks to a certain user, but I will still like to do some summing up in light of Falcus' posts;

Firstly, at no point did I say SP1 was not worth it, I merely pointed out that some users were having issues with it and, at least in my case, little was available to remedy the issue as it wasn't the normal "ah, there are too many errors." rants.

Secondly, I always had the same issue; I tried to install a route, all dependencies accounted for, no errors for any of the assets, game would crash whenever I attempted to load it up. This happened to any installed route I tried, and there was nothing to suggest why it would happen.

Thirdly, and this is kinda my fault, but this was a call for help, not a 'praise or curse' thread. There were a few people who attempted to help me (and to those you have my appreciation) but almost everyone else just told me what they liked and didn't like about SP1. Had you perhaps read my first post (and not just the thread title) this may not have dragged on for as long.

Lastly, although my frustration may have made my posts here somewhat brash, I'd like to think it was at least justified considering a) how long I have had the issue and b) how little I was able to do when communicating with some one-on-one. And considering there was nothing to suggest why this was happening (although some were able to offer some suggestions) I hope you can at least understand my frustrations, even if you didn't see it to be justified. If I have a question, I usually prefer a straight answer, not a long-winded explanation.

This thread can be put to bed.
Cheers
Tim

 

[Falcus]

Well, seems like my previous post wasn't as well received as I had hoped, so I invoke the apologies I wrote into the first bit of it. My form of explanative communication doesn't suit everyone, but for some people really hits the nail as it were. It was motivated from trying to help, but different people communicate differently.

However, points 1 & 3, we're in agreement, if your read my second post again, if anything I tried to nullify the idea that updating should ever be a negative experience, nor should anyone (Not just the OP), ever feel it is. It has its own challenges same as any other patch in any other game, though perhaps more so because of the nature of this hobby to date.

As for Point 2, I and I believe several others here would have liked to help, but without more information, theres nothing we can do. That was the point of my addressing that particular issue. Its one thing to say "My Car Broke" and quite another to actually fix it. Computers are much the same....

For the Last point, I entirely understand your frustrations. I have had many of the same ones at different times and perhaps with different platforms in different contexts, but I would posit that anyone with varying degrees of experience with computers has gone through much the same frustrations at some point or another. It is this understanding that tends to motivate people to help others, myself included.

As for prefering straight answers, I entirely understand. But a big part of my last post was in an effort, though I see I never did say it directly, to point out that you had yet to actually ask any questions directly related to the issues you were having with TS12 61388. Can't answer, direct or not, without a question. Instead of asking "Hey guys, I installed this Route <Kuid:XXXXX:XXX>, and it crashes every time I try to load, here's my Jetlog: "Click here to DL Timothetoolman's Log"" or any other such direct question, you simply asked "SP1... Bad as they say?". It was an indirect question for a specific problem and gave no clue as to what the actual issue may have been. Hence you got alot of responses to the effect of "Well, I agree it is because I hate it because my Bathroom Exploded when I installed it" Or "No it isn't because I've had it since 1927 and it bakes me biscuits in the morning".

Anyway, meandering done. Sounds like you got it fixed in the end? Totally awesome. Can't wait for your next content Release, I agree with the previous poster that you make good stuff (Yet another reason to want to help you). I apologize one more time for my unusual responses to things and unorthodox manner of communication, but there ya go. Take me or leave me, people either tend to love it or hate it....

Falcus

 

[GP502011]

Anything and Everything programmed and released will always have some kind of bug guys. It's if you are willing to be patient enough and take the time to fix what needs to be fixed.

I took the time to fix the things that needed to be fixed, whether it be a hornsound or a missing thumbnail. If the asset was beyond being repaired then I simply deleted it and got rid of the file. You guys bash SP1 and all it's hotfix patches because of assets missing thumbnail or a sound file that needs to be fixed (Audacity is free and it was simple to fix the WAV files, which just need to be resaved to the asset). Now for those like Timthetoolman with the issue of their Trainz repeatedly crashing, that's something that should be brought up to a programmer of the simulator.

It is up the initial user to decide whether or not to install SP1 and all it's patches. You guys are preaching something that not everyone is having the same issues with. Another thing is when it comes to the CMP loading slowly or crashing is because of the amount of assets it has to load up. I myself only have around 340,000 assets but i do know someone who has around close to 3,000,000 assets and it takes forever for his Trainz 12 to load up, where as for me it takes 30-45 minutes at the most. It's best to show some constraint when it comes to assets unless you are a content creator, then that is inevitable to not have a crap load of assets. But come on guys let's stop the pointless bickering and learn to compromise and work around all the issues or what features we do not have.

As for me. Yes I still have issues here and there but does that phase me or my experience. No. I just learn how to fix it or work around it. You just need to figure out the limits of what you're working with and everything will start to run smoother.



P.S. Please do not question me about this post or come after me. It is only me speaking my opinion about all the SP1 threads started. Voice whatever opinion you have about mine. Just do not attack me.

Thank you to those who are content creators. Keep up the great work.

 

[JCitron]

I agree with Falcus and the others here, Tim. If you post a vague question, you'll get vague answers. I am glad though that you resolved your problems, whatever they were that caused them.

As someone who worked in the technical support field, in both hardware and systems, for close 30 years, I can say that vague questions only makes everyone else's work more difficult. In the past I'd receive equipment from the field with tags on it that said "broke". We would tell the customers, time and time again, and this was usually the same customers too, that this will only add to the time needed to repair their equipment. The equipment would sit on the bench as we tested the unit for days, sometimes 5-10 days, as we let it run various diagnostics. A call to the customer gave us the same vague "it's broke" answer. I had one unit finally die the day I was going to return it, 5 days later. For this particular machine, smoke finally billowed out the back cover due to a failed video-controller for the attached CRT.

So in the future, ask more direct questions, and you'll get a more direct answer.

John