Signalling, turnouts and speed limits.

[nicky9499]

Hello all, after more than 3 months in front of the pc, I've finally laid the final track spline completing the entire mainline!

Immediately I face the next problem- the signalling and speed limit signs.

I've tried putting up a few signs, but they only work AFTER the train has passed them. Let's say we have a train in the yard and the yard's limit is 30km/h. When the session starts, the speed limit is still 65km/h (default) but changes to 30 only after the train passes the first sign. Any ideas on how to fix this?

I admit I don't have any idea at all how to place signals, so I've decided not to put up any until I get a clearer idea lest I have to re-signal everything after messing up although I would prefer the US signals given a choice. There are no diamond crossings on the line so simplify signalling.

Thanks in advance,
Nicholas.

 

[Midland]

Use an invisible speed signal immediately in front of the loco of any train in the yard. It can be a bit awkward if you're starting trains at random locations in a yard but I generally find that putting an invisible speed sign at the exit of a track onto the ladder (at each end too) covers it pretty much. Any train I place is going to be almost at the exit anyway.



Cheers

Nix

 

[trackplate]

Hi Nicholas
For signalling a good start point is the manual that comes with the game as far as speeds are concerned as Nix says you are stuck with the default speed up to the point of your first speed board as you have discovered, for a more realistic look you could always add invisible sped boards where this problem occurs this I find also works well for better acceleration from a standing start at long platforms
Regards Bob V

 

[nicky9499]

Ive tried running some trains on a simple stretch of line without any signals at all and they don't seem to have any problems, even when run at a very close range to each other and having many trains on a single track. is it possible to run the entire mainline without any signals at all since the trains seem to "sense" each other and don't actually collide.

note: my mainline is entirely double tracked with individual platforms for every track at every station.

 

[nismit]

you can drag signals along the track to their right places...

Posting Deleted.

 

[nicky9499]

perhaps that would also make the route look more "real" too since there's no other mainline railway in the world that operates without signals other than the Denver and Rio Grande

edit: sorry it's the durango-silverton. both railway's locomotives look very similar anyway =D

 

[nismit]

meep meep

Posting Deleted.

 

[nicky9499]

here's another problem i'm facing after signalling some parts of the line.

I'm running passenger trains as local services. What i would like to know is when adding instructions for Alastair and his pals, do I use "load", "unload" or both when the train has pulled into the station.

with freight trains this problem would not exist, but since passengers are exchanged at stations, i do not knwo what to do. ><

nicholas.

 

[trackplate]

I'm running passenger trains as local services. What i would like to know is when adding instructions for Alastair and his pals, do I use "load", "unload" or both when the train has pulled into the station.
nicholas.

Either will suffice you don’t need both commands, worth noting the unload command isn’t entirely successful as passengers often remain aboard
Regards Bob V

 

[nicky9499]

thanks for the tip, bob!

Okay, I'm now desperate for help on signalling, yes ANY help at all. My trains (not 10 not 20 but TWO) are disobeying the stop signals, colliding into each other, derailing on the turnouts, crashing my game and I still don't have a single idea on how to signal properly. Yes I do know how to signal a straight piece of track but this is so totally wrong.

Imagine this.

There is a big station (I'm leaving all the platforms alone except one for now). This double-track mainline terminates at this platform. Just before the platform itself, the mainline merges and becomes one, so any train going back down the line would have to change directions and use the other track. This is theoretically not a problem as the trains have locomotives at either end.

SO.

Train A comes in and stops to load. Train B would follow soon after, totally ignore the signal just before the merge and smashes into the loading train.

... ?!

Scenario 2.

Train A is stopped at the platform, train B happily rolls past the red signal again, and bumps into Train A. the impact is not hard enough to either train, so they now become one while in trying in vain to uncouple them. The train A starts to push train B out of the station. And because the switch controlling the merge has to be...er..switched, Train A changes the switch which train B is sitting on, derailing train B. AND because both trains are coupled, BOTH DERAIL.

I'm not even going to touch on anything else if this is not big a headache enough.

If anyone has ANY idea at all on how to signal (not that it helps that the signals are classified according to weird numbers and letters which don't make any reference at all to whatever it's supposed to be used as), I would appreciate your response.

Nicholas.

 

[laldfordo]

Is the signal just before the merge the only one? If so it could be train B doesn't have enough distance to stop in after it "sees" the signal. Put two more signals in advance. If you've already got those and the train won't stop you have an interesting problem.

 

[nismit]

you getting there...

Posting Deleted.

 

[laldfordo]

Deceleration (negative acceleration a) is proportional to braking force divided by train mass. To improve braking reduce mass (number of wagons) or add braking force - more locos.

Yes, but. See my earlier thread on stopping distances <http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=18585>

More than two (large) locos together adds no more braking power than the two provide. You have to space pairs of locos along the length of the consist with some wagons or carriages between.

 

[fran1]

put a couple of Ai brakes in the consist, 1/3,2/3 along. go into the config file and reduce the max accel to 100 therefore keeping the train engines doing the work. you could also reduce the max decel to 60000 giving you the stopping power of 4 locos with only two visible.

 

[sethmcs]

Block Signals Work Like This....

Hi Nicholas,

I see that nobody has explained the Block Signal system to you. I live in Pennsylvania and use the PRR NEC signals they are on the DLS. In order for the block system to work you need to have three sets of signals set up. In practice the spacing between signals is the distance need to bring the train to full stop. On my route I use two blocks which is close to a mile.

NEC signals have three settings:
Red = Stop
Yellow= prepare to stop at next signal
Green= Proceed at speed limit

Why don't you try these on a simple route ( just track signals and trains )and experment till you understand how it works. That's how I did it.

Hope this helps

 

[nicky9499]

im not sure if im getting this right, but generally speaking, when I have a point I want to protect with a signal, I cannot use ONLY one signal? if that is the case, then we come to the next signalling problem I face:

signals, as they are, are classified according to all sorts of ridiculous numbers and letters which (to me at least) don't make any sense at all. so what I want to know is which signals should be used for diverging and converging turnouts, a converging/diverging turnout after a turnout, consecutive converging/diverging turnouts after a turnout, three-way turnouts and many more other different scenarios. The manual says the signalling system in TRS2006 is unable to cope with diamond crossings, as such I have eliminated all diamond crossings in hope of an easier job of signalling. But still i face so many problems.

The main dilemma is which signal to use for a given scenario. For example, if I have a crossover which crosses over to the other mainline to get into an industry on the other side, what type of signals do I use? I personally have no problems spending alot of time placing signals on the route; but only if I know which one.

 

[nismit]

Diamond Crossover

Posting Deleted.

 

[laldfordo]

Hopefully you're all sorted if you have followed nismit's comprehensive advice. If not, and you just want to use signals in the supplied assets, the British signals BR 1 to 5 inclusive will work fine.

You've taken on board that you must have three signals close together. Two are enough to allow stopping distance but, unless you have the third, your trains will run at half speed from the previous signal. If we call the signal you want the trains to stop at A, put B about 150 metres before it and C 150 metres before B. (You will have to do trial and error with these distances and the braking power you give your consists, the speed limit and the gradients).

For a converging turnout A should be a BR4. For a diverging turnout a BR2 or BR3. For a triple turnout a BR1. B should always be a BR4 and C a BR5. You use a BR5 for C as it shows double amber when B is amber. The AI interprets it as green, however, so your trains will run at full speed up to C but you as the driver or dispatcher will see the double amber.

The manual states that you should signal all turnouts for operation in the direction reverse to normal. I don't know why and doing that has caused me some strange problems at times. I don't like invisible signals. While you are debugging your layout in Driver you need to see what the signals are doing.

 

[nismit]

Nice ABC example, here comes def

Posting Deleted.

 

[laldfordo]

Hi nismit. Agree with all that.

Haven't heard from nicky in Singapore for a day or so. Hope we haven't discouraged him with our long answers!