Shelving TRS2010 no more unrealistic Nonsence!

[jjeff1955]

I have gone back to the very reliable TRS2006 and will not go back to TRS2010:udrool: unless Auran patches the Draw Distance and makes it adjustable for High end Computers. In Driver mode the Mountains pop in and out and they are close enough within 5000m to be able to see them without poping in and out and that is very unacceptable .:n: Speed trees do very wierd flaky things. Just for fun I should just add a sound file to them such as Disco music since that is the way they shake and dance.:hehe: I am very sorry to sound so whining and complaining, but what happed to all of the Beta testing that was supposed to go into this program? Please do not get me wrong as I do enjoy the Trs expierence, but only the Trs2006 version. I do not have the time and patience to repair all of the content errors! I want to just create my routes and run them, but not with 2010. I sure that some of you will just laugh at me and think that I am picky. I beleive in quality if I have to pay money for software. I thought that the Trs new releases were to go forward and better not backwards. My suggestion is put the 2010 CPM into the Trs2006 as it is the only stable part that works. I am 56 years old and just want to build fun routes to share with others. Have you noticed that the content creation is mainly for 2004 & 2006 not 2010 as it has become to envolved to create. I hope that these 2004 & 2006 creators will make more 3d trees and and more animated trees as I have seen them and they work very good. You can animate anything in 2004 & 2006 it does not need to be the speedtree to make it possible. The 2010 broke Maddy25s split highway and there is no way to fix it as it can not load the light file. Trs2010 basicly ruined all of the wonderful content that was created through hard work and dedication from others. Monorails have become unusable and no longer are an addon that works. Compatiblity mode yea right? Will not when the content is faulty. Sorry to give neagitive reviews on a new product. It is not the computer fault that this 2010 fails my expectations.

 

[Red_Rattler]

Jjeff1955, if you believe that the product is faulty, then please take the product back to place of purchase, and ask them for a refund, repair or replacement.

 

[bolivar]

Hey redrattler, the product is not faulty, it's just been built that way. After discussing this issue with Zec, who said that the status Quo remains. The draw distance issue is one of the reasons I have not brought my routes over to 2010. Cheers.

 

[tomurban]

Just a suggestion. Have you considered giving TRZ2009 a try? It is TRZ2006 with improved graphics, better frame rates, no speed trees and it will still be supported after September 1st. Also, everything you have in 06 can be transferred to 09. Some will show errors in 09, but many do not. I have almost half of my 06 content content installed and working on 09 including my favorite routes. I did those first although many are built in to 09 and do not need fixing.

tomurban

 

[Approach_Medium]

I'm pretty much stuck with TS2010, since I have built a huge route in it and cannot port that route back to TS2006 or TS2009.
That said, I am not unhappy with TS2010_SP2. You do have SP2 installed, do you not?

As for SpeedTreez, forget it. I don't use any of them.
I'm running an old (5+yrs) computer;
P4 @ 3.4Ghz, 3Gigs DDR2 533Mhz, GeForce 9800 GTX+ 512MB, and a 500GB 7200RPM 32MB SATA drive for TS.

I have to keep clutter (trees, buildings, trains) down to a minimum, and have to set draw distance to below 2Km for populated areas and yards, but i can have it up at 3Km or higher in the middle of nowhere where there aren't other trains and few buildings.

As for high-end systems, you should be able to crank everything up to max without having the problems you describe; The problem is in the old code the program runs on.

That's my personal opinion.

FW

 

[JCitron]

I noticed something about the draw distance, and it's related to older content and in particular track.

Just for kicks, backup your route first and replace the track with the yucky Auran track. This was made to TS2009/2010 specs, and performs much better than the older track. I then went through the long process afterwards of finding the track that would work, and so far the RBMN seems to fit the bill for me.

The ST thing, well there's a utility that will disable the animation so they're not blowing in the wind. This utility is an on-off type thing so the animation can be renabled again at a later date. Speaking of ST, have you installed the SP2 for TS2010? This has a slider now in the environment settings to slow down the animation so the trees aren't blowing like it's a full-force gale wind. This too has helped the performance, and the results are rewarding.

STs are also affected by certain video drivers. Remember these trees are drawn in the GPU and not by the CPU. This helps with the performance by allowing more of them with less overhead. ATI cards appear to have problems with these, and it isn't just with Trainz. It's an Open/GL issue that ATI cards can't handle. This is why they grow out of the ground. Again the SP2 patch seemed to fix this, according to Auran.

Unfortunately Auran has not been forthcoming with CC infortion, which makes it very difficult for creators to adhere to the current standards. Many users still use TRS2004 and TRS2006, so there's still a large amount of content for those versions. Creating content for these version is easier too, which helps so you'll also find fewer new items.

Again, as I've said before in many posts, the errors and problems relating to older items, has to do with errors in the content, and not the program. TS2009/2010 have stronger, more strict, reporting of errors, therefore the errors show up.

Not reporting the errors, and loading the content is not a good thing either. In the older versions, the program would parse through the config files, pull out the broken texture links, and muscle through the program to make it work. This made everything load , but at a cost. The performance was poor, there were stutters and actual crashes, particularly when the program couldn't muscle through an incorrect texture, or bad sound file for example.

So there needs to be a compromise for this. The program could go on and ignore the errors like it did before, stutter and then crash, or throw up and exception, and not load the content. Personally I perfer the latter because it give me a chance to fix the errors. Now having said this, the developer has been kind enough to include the compatibility mode, which allows the older content to load errors and all. This mode muscles through the content, ignores the errors, and performance is hindered just as it was in the older programs.

Now here's the clincher. There's no reason why older content, content for TRS2004 through TRS2006 couldn't be made to the current standards. I don't mean the extra texture information, but with better proofing from the very beginning so that the content was at least nearly error free in the first place.

Now I am in no way laughing at your decision. I fully understand your frustrations with the program, but I felt that you needed a better explanation of what's going on so that you can perhaps look at the program in a different light. Hopefully Auran will address these issues in future versions, or patches. They are the ones that know, we're not and will only see the result when they release it to us.

John

 

[jjeff1955]

Thank You JCitron!

Thank you
JCitron

vbmenu_register
Trainz Veteran
for the kind reply! Yes I do have Sp2 installed as it was built into my new Trs2010 dvd. As far as the track goes I did not even use any on the test map. I used some roads and a Tram. Built some Mountains not more than 5000m away, put in a few trees not Speedtrees.

Then did a test drive with the Tram and in driver mode Mountains went away, exit driver mode and the M ountains pop back in. Same with trees from a distance on a hill, driver mode no trees to be seen. Exit driver mode at the same exact distance the trees pop back in. It is not the video drivers. My Hobby is building Super Computers and I do not pretend to know it all, but I do know computers and hardware enough to know that 2010 is faulty.

As far as the Trs2009, I spent hours with that one also and it has the same exact problems with the draw distance in Driver mode. Trainz Tuner 1.3 does not work with 2009. I have treid DirectX and OpenGL and no improvements, OpenGL is choppy.

Trs2006 has perfect draw distance with Trainz Tuner 1.3 set at 5400m and it solid as a rock and the frame rates is still very smooth. In driver mode Trs2006 nothing goes away in the distance. Even the Mountain textures stay in perfect and do not turn into square patches as it does in 2010.:udrool:

As far as returning the software why should I have gotten a huge bragged about Trs2010 and then have to play the return game. Once it is opened and registered it's over with and I am stuck with it. There will be someone that does not care and that would be the remark that I expected.

One last thing is that the ground content has very poor tearing in 2009 and 2010. Trs2006 can be fixed for screen shots by adding the -disableztest in the config file, then the ground from a distance is solid wuth no tearing of roads and track. Trs2010 has no such thing I have tried.

Computer specs are.
Apevia X-Navagator case,
XP Pro Sp3,
AMD Quadcore 965,
4 gigs of cas 4 memory 3 gigs availble Xp 32bit,
Evga 295 video card co-op Sli turned off 197.21 the best out of all the drivers that where tested,
1100 watt psu,
Crosshair II 780 chipset PCI 2.0,
X-FI sound card,
4x Western Digital Raptors 10,000 rpm in Raid 0.

 

[Approach_Medium]

Maybe I'll re-install TS2006 and all of its SP's and do a real comparison. It's been a long time since I've even run it. But I do not recall having the problems with 06 that I do with 09 and 10, having the mountains suddenly pop up, and the craters that appear in the ground.

I think the problem is that Auran continues to use mostly the same old code, making a few patches and "upgrades" here and there.
What we need is a bran-new program. Throw out everything, and start fresh.
Give Content Creators the "heads up" while the new program is in early stages, so that they can start building content for it. Also, provide a good utility to convert old content to the new format.

What is happening with Trainz is not unlike my experiences with Intuit's Quicken program.
It reached a point where I was happy with it, but was offered a free upgrade, so I took it. It was a backwards upgrade; more of a down-grade.
The next version was better, and I finally had to upgrade to 2008 because it was required to download from my bank.
I have promised myself I will never buy another version of Quicken.
I am doing the same thing now for Trainz. The only way I will buy a new version, is if all of the old code is tossed, and the new program is available on a free 30-day trial.

Enough said. Back to Trainz.

FW

 

[jjeff1955]

Exactly fwassner Thanks for your support!

This is the last Trs I will ever buy. I will run 2006 until I get boared with it , but that may take years.

 

[tomurban]

This is the last Trs I will ever buy. I will run 2006 until I get boared with it , but that may take years.

Sorry to say this, but I am running 09 on a 5 year old 3.0 Ghz P4 (dual core), WIN XP, Sp3, 2 Gb of ram, nVidia nvs series graphics card with 256Mb of ram. My HD drive is only 40Gb so 09 is loaded on a 250Gb Toshiba portable HD. I have set draw distance to 3,000m and I do not experience any of the pop up or tearing symptoms that you have described. My frame rates run in the low 30's except in built up and yard areas where it can drop as low as 10 FPS. If it were not for having FRAPS running I would not even notice the drop. There has to be a rational explanation for your problems, and I wish I knew what it was. I only use 06 for downloads, fixing errors and testing the asset.

It must be quite frustrating to have a high end system and not have good results. I think I would be just as unhappy.

Regards, Tom

 

[Red_Rattler]

At Bolivar, I said it if he believes a product to be faulty, not that the product was faulty.

As far as returning the software why should I have gotten a huge bragged about Trs2010 and then have to play the return game. Once it is opened and registered it's over with and I am stuck with it.

Incorrect, as I have seen similar consumer protection laws somewhere for the United States & United Kingdom similar to what Australia has. As a matter of fact, while not interested (and yes it was a US based model shop/supplier that you can order via the internet), I have a return, replace or repair for faulty items that seem to be equal and in some cases may surpass Australia's consumer protection.

If you brought a product that is faulty through no fault of the customer, then you are not stuck with it.

So if a person buys an item for say the $US10,000 (or whatever the equivalent is in local currency) and found that it was faulty, then that buyer has no right to be able to get the product fixed at the place of purchase?? Of course they have.

As I stated in another thread, I brought it as I found out it was 43% off the price! I found out it was almost half price by accident!

 

[Approach_Medium]

Well, maybe I'm on the same train out of here!
CM3.2 (TS2010_SP2). I thought I had everything with no errors (lots of warnings).
Then I did a EDR and now I've got two dozen faulty assets.
Some of them aren't really faulty; After the EDR things seem to get screwed up, and when you check warnings and errors, it reports 0.
After that, the asset no longer reports an error.

But other assets have all sorts of errors, which I thought I had fixed already.

It's so frustrating! You spend a whole day fixing content, then it gets broken again!

I think I'm going to leave Trainz, buy a video camera, and go out to watch real trains!

FW

 

[narrowgauge]

Frank

Did you have a reason to do the EDR? I have not done one since upgrading to SP2 and I have no problems. If it 'ain't broke, don't fix it' is a very good piece of wisdom and has served me well.

Peter

 

[Red_Rattler]

I know what EDR stands for, but I don't really know what it does. But going on what it stands for, I think it is has something to do with repairing something, what I don't know though.

But if it is something about fiddling, and/editing the items, you should back them up first, if you don't already.

 

[Muliebuck]

EDR - Extended Database Repair, what it'll do, is erase the caches, do a complete double-check of all installed, obsolete, faulty and other things, and rebuild the database. Depending on the level of content, it can take a while

 

[aking4125]

I don't have any of those issues. TS2010 seems just perfect for me. Some old routes I got from da DLS work just fine. But I guess I lucked out.

 

[jjeff1955]

Thank You all for your replies!

I have tried the exteneded data base repairs also and it takes a long time and most of the time it does break the content again. I did not expect this to turn into an in depth and long thread. maybe Auran or someone will take notice and grant me at least one wish that a patch would be released to allow for adjustable draw distance. Then I would just let go of the 2006 map and start a new one with good working content. the one that stated that his Trs2009 had good frame rates at 3000m, I am happy to see that you are getting good results. I have noticed that the Trs2009 was better at not popping in and out like the Trs2010 does. Maybe because it was still Cpu based and not relying on the Gpu. For now I will focus on my Trs2006 as it gives me a lot more fun in driver mode for the extended scenery and Mountains. Thank You to the creator for the Trainz Tuner 1.3, that is what made it possible for Trs2006 to work for me.

 

[Red_Rattler]

In Driver mode the Mountains pop in and out and they are close enough within 5000m to be able to see them without poping in and out and that is very unacceptable.

Jjeff1955, what route did you first noticed that mountains pop in and out?

 

[Isaacg]

Jeff, have you tried the other display options(eg. DirectX if you have it set at OpenGL and vice versa)? I had the same problem as you I think; maybe you could try that.

 

[Approach_Medium]

Frank

Did you have a reason to do the EDR? I have not done one since upgrading to SP2 and I have no problems. If it 'ain't broke, don't fix it' is a very good piece of wisdom and has served me well.

Peter

I thought it would be best if I initiated the EDR before closing CM, since it has been doing it so often on open, which delays the start of my session.

When EDR had finished, it reported over 800 errors. What's the point in that?
The whole DB needs to be re-designed. I wish I could figure out Auran's compression algo, as I would write a database myself.

FW