Setting properties of industry tracks when covered by scenery
- Thread starter normhart
- Start date
There are hundreds of routes that have this situation, none of which I've made. I am trying to figure out how to make a session for sharing on the DLS for the B&O and WM Mega Route and this situation is prevalent throughout the route.
Is there any sign that N3V will fix this in SP2? I know they fixed the same problem with switches masked by scenery objects in one of the hot fixes.
This is going to be the case due to the route design in the first place if the route builder did not plan ahead for layers. The only way now, unfortunately, is to visit the various industries and other assets requiring properties and then hiding some or all of the nearby assets.
What I have done is create a sub-layer of the Route layer called HOLD!!!.
When I need to move stuff or hide it temporarily, I will place it in the HOLD!!! layer. When I'm done, I will go back and move the content back to the route layer. Sometimes I will forget and end up merging stuff back in at a later date then recreate the HOLD!!! layer again.
I don't see how anything that N3V can do to fix this problem as it goes back to the route design and the underlying design of the program and how it handles user content, besides, this kind of rewrite would never make it into a service pack anyway. By the very nature, even going back as far as I can remember with TRS2004, of editing and saving a route will create a new version with your own UID and a new KUID. There are manual workarounds if for this if you want, but before you do so, I recommend getting permission from the original author to do so, besides, even uploading a new version of the route would be a no, no without permission.
If you feel this is something that needs addressing in a future version, I recommend posting something in the Suggestion Boxcar forum.
In Surveyor, look for the button with the "?" in the objects menu or in the track menu (depending on what you want to move). Click on that.
Next, go to the related object / track asset and click on it.
You will find the Layer indicator in the top-right corner. Switch that to whatever you like.
In TANE you can also mass-move assets to a different layer using the Mass Replace asset option.
Hi Norm --
I may be wrong but I think that it did exist prior to T:ANE.
If there is an easy answer I'd certainly like to know.
Of course, Norm, the other way (now my preferred option) is to use the Rolling Stock flyout when in Driver mode to load and unload rolling stock. I'm sure you have sen this in one of my other postings?
Phi
I may be wrong but I think that it did exist prior to T:ANE.
If there is an easy answer I'd certainly like to know.
Of course, Norm, the other way (now my preferred option) is to use the Rolling Stock flyout when in Driver mode to load and unload rolling stock. I'm sure you have sen this in one of my other postings?
Phi
Richarde57
Active member
When I have this problem I move the building a bit to the side till track is clear. When done with the industry settings I move the building back to the right spot.
Phil, I just checked in TS12SP1HF4 and you could access the industry track properties without problem. I also checked TS12 49922 and TS2010 and it works fine in both of those too. I'm pretty sure it is a TANE problem, I haven't checked TMR17 yet. Edit: I just checked TMR17 and no it does not work in that either.
Your use of the flyout is OK but doesn't really fit a session intended for sharing on the DLS.
The problem with that is that when you try to save the session the game will want you to save the route also. Again not suitable for making a session for a route on the DLS.
Last edited:
A simple way to reproduce this problem;
Assets;
<kuid:86661:100037> spar tree2
<kuid2:86661:144003:1> SS MultiLOG Deck
TS12SP1HF4
TANE You will note I have two of the log decks in this, the properties of the one "inside" the spar tree2 is shown. I included the other deck to verify the properties showed up correctly when not inside the scenery asset and they do.
Note this was done in the Route Surveyor but the same thing happens when creating or editing a Session.
Assets;
<kuid:86661:100037> spar tree2
<kuid2:86661:144003:1> SS MultiLOG Deck
TS12SP1HF4
TANE You will note I have two of the log decks in this, the properties of the one "inside" the spar tree2 is shown. I included the other deck to verify the properties showed up correctly when not inside the scenery asset and they do.
Note this was done in the Route Surveyor but the same thing happens when creating or editing a Session.
Last edited:
Norm --
Well, those two images above highlight exactly the same issues I've faced in my narrow gauge logging layouts.
The solution I used can be see at 5:27 and 6:10 in this video of the Lilliput Logger layout:
You might like to download the layout and see how it's configured.
You will find:
The Log Decks aren't actually connected to the track.
Instead there is a Multiple Industry New located at each Deck.
The MIN is configured in the Surveyor layer to produce logs (so it's hard wired into all the sessions).
I did the configuration of the MIN by raising the Spar Tree well above the ground, configuring the MIN and then lowering the Spar Tree back to ground level.
The log size is indicated by the logs I've placed on the Log Deck.
Trust me as I've now discovered, putting the responsibility for loading and unloading back on the Player with the Rollingstock flyout in Driver mode is much easier.
Phil
Well, those two images above highlight exactly the same issues I've faced in my narrow gauge logging layouts.
The solution I used can be see at 5:27 and 6:10 in this video of the Lilliput Logger layout:
You might like to download the layout and see how it's configured.
You will find:
The Log Decks aren't actually connected to the track.
Instead there is a Multiple Industry New located at each Deck.
The MIN is configured in the Surveyor layer to produce logs (so it's hard wired into all the sessions).
I did the configuration of the MIN by raising the Spar Tree well above the ground, configuring the MIN and then lowering the Spar Tree back to ground level.
The log size is indicated by the logs I've placed on the Log Deck.
Trust me as I've now discovered, putting the responsibility for loading and unloading back on the Player with the Rollingstock flyout in Driver mode is much easier.
Phil
I have had exactly this problem in TS 12 and the solution then was the same as I use now in TANE. With any scenery item that covers (or is placed on top of) another scenery item where I will need to access the properties of or alter the position of either of the items, I place one of the items into a separate route layer or session layer if the item or items are unique to a session. In fact I create a layer in each route specifically for this purpose.
This happens with small items like seats, luggage and other assorted platform scenery items placed on a platform object where they cannot be moved without first moving the platform. It happens with industrial infrastructure (i.e. a warehouse) placed over an industry active track. I do not see it as a problem that "has to be solved by N3V" but merely a design feature that has to be considered by the route and session creator.
Again, this is not how trainz has functioned up until TANE.
Again, this impacts all older routes that may be imported into TANE and may have industry objects covered by other assets.
While there are many possible work-a-rounds most require modifying someone else's route and are therefore not acceptable for any user wanting to create sessions for sharing with other users.
I will remind you that in early versions of TANE this also affected switches, when a switch was "inside" a scenery asset you could not change it. N3V was able to fix this and hopefully they will be able to fix this problem with industry assets.
Again, this impacts all older routes that may be imported into TANE and may have industry objects covered by other assets.
While there are many possible work-a-rounds most require modifying someone else's route and are therefore not acceptable for any user wanting to create sessions for sharing with other users.
I will remind you that in early versions of TANE this also affected switches, when a switch was "inside" a scenery asset you could not change it. N3V was able to fix this and hopefully they will be able to fix this problem with industry assets.
I have to disagree, as per my post #13 above. If you place one object on top of another and then click the top object, how is Trainz supposed to know that you are trying to click the bottom object?
Your example of the radio mask above the tracks may be a "red herring". It looks like the tower with its supporting cables has lots of empty spaces between the cables for you to click and select any of the tracks below. But is this really the case? Did the creator of that asset simply make the mesh, which may actually be a pyramid, transparent? Its a bit like placing one object inside a building that has transparent windows. If you click on the object inside that is visible through the window are you clicking on the interior object or on the window of the building?
In my graphics package, GIMP, I can place graphic objects above each other by placing them in different layers. The lower objects are partly or fully hidden from view and from selection by those above them. To select an object in one of those lower layers I have to make all the layers above it invisible. It works exactly the same way in Trainz.
Before layers were introduced in Trainz you had to physically move objects out of the way to get at a lower covered object. So how is this now a problem in TANE?
No I'm sorry but you are incorrect. The spar tree above is undoubtedly a transparent pyramid but in TS12SP1 and below you could select the log deck through the transparency (?) to reach it's properties (edit: I checked the mesh and it is not a transparent pyramid each line is it's own mesh). Try it! It is how industry properties have always worked. I would speculate that, just as with switches, an industry asset has properties that are recognized within surveyor and allows the user to set those properties even through a scenery asset.
Try it, seriously, in any version of trainz prior to TANE you can access the settings for an industry.
Last edited:
To return to the first example the WM and B&O Mega Route has many coal mines, most are set up like this one.
In TS12 61388
If I click on the area between the red arrows the properties of the PL track pop up as shown. In fact I can access each of the three tracks' properties.
If you click on non-transparent areas of the mine you get the properties of the scenery object.
This is not the case in TANE. In TANE there is no way to access the PL track properties without modifying the route.
Edit: To be honest I do not know if the mine actually has a transparent plane under the visible wall or not but in either case in TS12 and below you can access the properties of the tracks and in TANE you can not.
Editagain: to be thorough I checked the mine mesh using PEV's mesh viewer
As you can see there is no transparent plane in front of the tracks.
Note that I also tested the spar tree/log deck in TS2009 and was able to access the deck's properties through the transparent sections. BTW I also checked the mesh of the spar tree and as far as I can tell it does not have transparent planes either each line is an individual mesh.
Edit some more: I just tested a MIN under two spar trees and it's properties were also inaccessible.
In TS12 61388
If I click on the area between the red arrows the properties of the PL track pop up as shown. In fact I can access each of the three tracks' properties.
If you click on non-transparent areas of the mine you get the properties of the scenery object.
This is not the case in TANE. In TANE there is no way to access the PL track properties without modifying the route.
Edit: To be honest I do not know if the mine actually has a transparent plane under the visible wall or not but in either case in TS12 and below you can access the properties of the tracks and in TANE you can not.
Editagain: to be thorough I checked the mine mesh using PEV's mesh viewer
As you can see there is no transparent plane in front of the tracks.
Note that I also tested the spar tree/log deck in TS2009 and was able to access the deck's properties through the transparent sections. BTW I also checked the mesh of the spar tree and as far as I can tell it does not have transparent planes either each line is an individual mesh.
Edit some more: I just tested a MIN under two spar trees and it's properties were also inaccessible.
Last edited:
I think you are right Norm. One reason for so few session have been upload for TANE is this problem. While phil has an work around some people want to see the industry action.
Make scenery move and setup of industry and saving the new session and map. Go into CM and altering the configure file for the session to point to the unchanged map. Can you now upload the session? An extra step but may work.
Rob
Make scenery move and setup of industry and saving the new session and map. Go into CM and altering the configure file for the session to point to the unchanged map. Can you now upload the session? An extra step but may work.
Rob
That might work, I'll give it a try thanks Rob.
Alas, I have uninstalled all versions prior to TANE.
