Railworks heads into Muti Player by Next year

"Otherwise all software would be stuck in the 'beta' state for all eternity..."

So is TS2010 ever gonna get out of beta? :hehe:

"So when someone says that they don't have a machine to run Trainz, I always kind of scratch my head because I'm on a fixed income and have been for about four years now and I can save up and buy a piece at a time and make what I have better. And I guess I just kind of figure I don't know why anyone else can't…"

Elementary, Watson, you don't get $400 to $600 per month heating bills in Arizona. I often lose my internet connection in the winter because I need to scrape up another 20 bucks so I can turn the thermostat up far enough to avoid hypothermia. OTOH Wisconsin summers are pretty nice, what's this "air conditioner" thing all you southerners keep talking about? ;)

As for upgrading, I moved from Chicago to Wisconsin 6 years ago, bought a house in September 2005, bought two identical Dell XPS 400 systems in October 2005, $1500 each (all that before the financial disaster from a bad business investment and heart attack the following spring). They originally had Nvidia 6800s, 1 gig RAM, 2.8ghz Intel Duo cores, Maxtor 6L160M0 147.8 GB hard drives. Since I was moving at the time I didn't have the inclination to build my own, so these were the first "store bought" systems since the Dell 80486 DX-66 I had umpteen years ago - and I didn't know about Dell using non industry standard hardware. Currently have an 8500GT since that's the best I can get with the 375 watt power supply, and you can't stick in a generic power supply since the mobo connections are non standard on a Dell. Had some spare money (in the summer!) couple years ago, bought a pair of 1 gig sticks of 800mhz Crucial RAM - then discovered even with the only available BIOS update they won't run over 677mhz since that's all the BIOS will do.

I've been tinkering with settings for TS2010 off and on since I got it, usually seems to run slightly better in DirectX - except for routes like Electric Commuter, which I've been using as a test bench since it had moderate low framerates with the worst rubber banding effect. Using OpenGL instead of DirectX eliminates all the rubber banding and the route is actually pretty smooth, FPS is only slightly higher but FPS never does tell the whole story. On my own route DirectX OpenGL render frames ahead zero or 8, vertical synch force on force off, 32 bit 16 bit yada yada yada the FPS remains about the same at 10-15FPS no matter what I do. I did find that it runs smoother in full screen rather than windowed, and 1024x768 rather than the native resolution of 1280x1024 that usually produces best results.

By contrast I built a similar route in Railworks (available at www.trainsim.com and www,uktrainsim.com, Port Ogden & Chicago Metro) which looks better and runs smoother. But. Again, once I'm finished creating my magical artistic beauty, what can I do with it? Hop in a train, "have a run", and admire the scenery. Doesn't matter what I do with track and signals in Railworks, the AI is completely hopeless, which makes duplicating intense operations interacting with other trains (my passion) totally impossible.

Some videos, first two from Railworks;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxHIUtKO_B4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9QcykJRXZs

This from TS2010;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k4cDDhVAao

The critical difference is that with TS2010 it's a lot easier to set up, debug, and tweak, and most important independent of critical timing. In the railworks scenarios if the player somehow manages to run thru a locked switch crossing the path of an AI train, all of them will go catatonic and sit there sucking their thumbs and sulking. With Trainz I can bust into the middle of a dozen AI trains and screw up their whole schedule, once I get out of the way they usually sort themselves out, figure out who goes first and which way to go, and get moving again. If they get too screwed up you can hit F6 to open the driver menu, and play dispatcher by giving and changing the AI orders during the game.

If they get too screwed up you can hit F6 to open the driver menu, and play dispatcher by giving and changing the AI orders during the game.

No, I said that twice on purpose because it bears repeating, I'm going to say it again.

If they get too screwed up you can hit F6 to open the driver menu, and play dispatcher by giving and changing the AI orders during the game.

For those who have never tried other trainsims, you may not fully appreciate this aspect of Trainz - if the AI screws up you can unscrew it yourself while you're playing because of this "mini dispatcher" control panel. MSTS does not have that, if there's a traffic jam it's Game Over, nothing you can do about it. Railworks does not have that, if there's a traffic jam it's Game Over, nothing you can do about it. Only Trainz has that feature. :cool:
 
Sniper if they think trainz 2010 was ahead of railworks they should see how awesome trainz 12 is. Sure we were behind on droppler effect only thing trainz was behide which was not that big of a deal.
 
"Sitting on fences can give you a pain in the ...." (I think Alan Parsons Project sang that).

Not much has changed in the world of RW, there was a triumphant proclamation from the RSC CEO a few weeks ago about how wonderful the new tech is looking, but since then nothing added and no screenshots or other evidence to back it up.

A reasonable discussion in an ongoing thread at UKTS about this elicited a visit from the bootboy division so as I don't "do" arguments on that forum anymore, that was the end of that. However I can pretty much confirm nothing much has changed in the core of RW or any patches or even news of patches to the long standing issues. So headlights still don't project light, the scenario editor still throws a wobbly if you cross it with an AI train at the wrong time etc. etc.

Back to the subject of fences, I've taken the plunge and ordered a copy of TS12 and once I've finished my current RW project I'm looking forward to seeing what TS12 has to offer. It's been what 3, maybe 4, years since my last Trainz route so long overdue getting something out.
 
Come back to the Dark Side of The Force!

Paul Jackson was gushing about RW when it was first announced too, "The AI dispatcher will be further enhanced". It didn't need to be "further enhanced", it needed to be ripped out completely and start over from scratch. I don't know what the hell he thought he was "enhancing", you put chocolate frosting on a dung pile that don't change it into a cake.
 
"Otherwise all software would be stuck in the 'beta' state for all eternity..."



"So when someone says that they don't have a machine to run Trainz, I always kind of scratch my head because I'm on a fixed income and have been for about four years now and I can save up and buy a piece at a time and make what I have better. And I guess I just kind of figure I don't know why anyone else can't…"

Elementary, Watson, you don't get $400 to $600 per month heating bills in Arizona. I often lose my internet connection in the winter because I need to scrape up another 20 bucks so I can turn the thermostat up far enough to avoid hypothermia. OTOH Wisconsin summers are pretty nice, what's this "air conditioner" thing all you southerners keep talking about?

As for upgrading, I moved from Chicago to Wisconsin 6 years ago, bought a house in September 2005, bought two identical Dell XPS 400 systems in October 2005, $1500 each (all that before the financial disaster from a bad business investment and heart attack the following spring). They originally had Nvidia 6800s, 1 gig RAM, 2.8ghz Intel Duo cores, Maxtor 6L160M0 147.8 GB hard drives. Since I was moving at the time I didn't have the inclination to build my own, so these were the first "store bought" systems since the Dell 80486 DX-66 I had umpteen years ago - and I didn't know about Dell using non industry standard hardware. Currently have an 8500GT since that's the best I can get with the 375 watt power supply, and you can't stick in a generic power supply since the mobo connections are non standard on a Dell. Had some spare money (in the summer!) couple years ago, bought a pair of 1 gig sticks of 800mhz Crucial RAM - then discovered even with the only available BIOS update they won't run over 677mhz since that's all the BIOS will do.

And I stand by my statement.

Your Dell may have non-industry standard hardware, but my Dell didn't. I was able to put power supply in mine without a problem, bought a thermal take 750 W and put in mine. My Dell motherboard connectors are not nonstandard, so I really don't know what to tell you.

But we all make choices in life, yours was buying a house where you have exorbitant heating costs. Mine was downsizing and going someplace where I could take my limited income and stretch it as far as I can. It's all about choices.

Your summers may be pretty nice but that's what three or four months of the year? Then eight months of harsh weather, again that was your choice. My choice was the opposite. I only have to run my air conditioning for four months out of the year and I just got my electric bill yesterday and it was 115 bucks, roughly double what it normally is. Again it's all about choices. But since you made your choices, you should have to live with them and be honest with yourself that you made those choices and be proud of them and accept them.

But you continually seem to make the statement "I don't have the bucks for a nuclear powered Game Dominator 3000" when complaining about Trainz. And I merely say the reason you don't or can't is because of the choices you made in life. Now don't get me wrong they're not bad choices, and I'm not knocking your choices. But they were YOUR choices, no one put a gun to your head and told you to make them.

You spent $150 for the anniversary edition of TS 12 and God bless you…

But then you continually talk about how you don't have this or how you don't have that, you could've… But you chose not to.
 
Actually I didn't spend any money on Trainz, all three versions I have were gifts from adoring fans from other trainsims. :wave: And I wouldn't have picked Wisconsin out of a hat, my oldest son married a local girl up here, gonna need him to take care of my autistic youngest son when I kick the bucket, ergo I had to go where he is. Some people get to make plans, others have to react to circumstances.
 
I have done a comple 360 degree U-turn. Trainz is no longer installed here, after nearly 10 years of running the various versions.

I am now fully commited to developing in Railworks. The route i was building with a friend in TZ, which was 50% finished after 18 months work is now deleted. The same route ( South & West Wales 1950's - 1960's ) will now be jointly created by us for RW and work has started.

IKB.
 
Hi Everybody.
I have done a comple 360 degree U-turn. Trainz is no longer installed here, after nearly 10 years of running the various versions.

I am now fully commited to developing in Railworks. The route i was building with a friend in TZ, which was 50% finished after 18 months work is now deleted. The same route ( South & West Wales 1950's - 1960's ) will now be jointly created by us for RW and work has started.

IKB.

If that is a goodbye to the forum ikb then I for one will very much miss your postings and your presence. Your reasons are understandable, the problems with 2012 and the clique on the forum seem to have taken a lot of the enthusiasm away.

I have not purchased 2012 for the reasons I have read on the forum and have not been a regular poster in recent weeks due to pressure of work. Therefore I have not been so much involved and have only followed the complaints and arguments from a distance.

However, if Trainz are losing dedicated people like yourself ikb then I think the alarm bell should be sounding somewhere in nv3/Auran management that perhaps they have not got things right.

As stated, if your posting is a good bye to the forum, then all the best for the future and the development of your project on Railworks. I will look forward to running it when it's is uploaded at sometime .

Bill
 
To IKB.....

I have done a comple 360 degree U-turn. Trainz is no longer installed here, after nearly 10 years of running the various versions.

I am now fully commited to developing in Railworks. The route i was building with a friend in TZ, which was 50% finished after 18 months work is now deleted. The same route ( South & West Wales 1950's - 1960's ) will now be jointly created by us for RW and work has started.

IKB.

I was concerned about you lately due to the fact that you had not posted here on the Trainz Forums recently.

I think you have me on "Ignore" so you may not see this post.

It is sad that you have decided to go with another game version of trains. I am sure you have reasons for that decision, and I respect that you need to do what works best for you.

Regards and best wishes to you.
 
As much as I love the railworks world editor, I won't be joining you anytime soon, if ever. All they gotta do to entice me back is unlock the blasted switches and give me some kind of AI traffic and scenario tools I can actually work with, or at least work around. As disappointing as TS12 is, RS/RW was even more disappointing after such high expectations. And I DID give it more than enough chances, I had the first railsim in October 2007, first US version of railsim in January 2008, railworks by June 2009. Developed about a dozen routes for it, merged the terrain textures from the European and US sets which everyone was demanding and RSDL/RSC apparently couldn't figure out how to do, uploaded a boatload of reskins and conversions, and spent many many many hours trying to figure out some clever workaround for the AI traffic limitations. No joy, railworks does an adequate job of simulating British commuter rail operations, so everyone should fall in love with British commuter rail and forget trying to do anything more complicated. No thanks.
 
Hi Mike, I think I may buy Rail-works 3 if they ever get around to it, and pull out a few stops. But until they do, I will be staying put, with what sniper said, it looks like the Surveyor well there equivalent anyway has improved, so thats a plus at least. but the lack of interactively is one hell of a big minus. I thought snipers remarks were very poignant.

I hope you got my PM I sent you yesterday.
I wish you well in all you do.
Jonathan
 
Hi Mike, I think I may buy Rail-works 3 if they ever get around to it, and pull out a few stops.

I have no doubts that they'll release a 'Railworks 3', however, I suspect it will be the current incarnation with (some of) the features promised in their spring preview, and the multiplayer support. It certainly won't be a reworking of the game or it's engine in any indepth way.

The transition from Railworks to Railworks 2 was purely a marketing stunt, the same will be true of the Railworks 3 release when it happens (probably about the end of this year - at a guess, Dec 31st when they realise they need to release *something* or else they've lied about the multiplayer 'before the end of the year' promise)
 
Don't go by what I said to indicate the world editor (rw equivalent of surveyor route editor) has improved, AFAIK there have been no significant changes since the original RS release in 2007. Cosmetic changes like squared windows and tool markers, nothing really different. This is strictly a matter of taste - I fell madly in love with the railsim world editor the first time I tried it, if it could make coffee I'd marry it. I've grown to appreciate certain features of Trainz surveyor like the copy and paste everything gadget and route merging, but I still can't love it. I really truly seriously hate the surveyor session editor with its tedious adding of navigate to and navigate via instructions, what the hell was wrong with the MSTS activity editor path editor? 2D map, place start point, click "take other exit" for any switch you want it to diverge, place end point and save. Then you can set up eleventy-six different AI services to follow that same path instead of having to add 5,782 navigate via instructions for each new train.

Nirvana for me, add Trainz copy-paste merge route features to the RW world editor, add Trainz AI traffic logic and the ability to change driver instructions ingame to the old MSTS activity editor, there's a perfect set of tools.
 
Don't go by what I said to indicate the world editor (rw equivalent of surveyor route editor) has improved, AFAIK there have been no significant changes since the original RS release in 2007. Cosmetic changes like squared windows and tool markers, nothing really different. This is strictly a matter of taste - I fell madly in love with the railsim world editor the first time I tried it, if it could make coffee I'd marry it. I've grown to appreciate certain features of Trainz surveyor like the copy and paste everything gadget and route merging, but I still can't love it. I really truly seriously hate the surveyor session editor with its tedious adding of navigate to and navigate via instructions, what the hell was wrong with the MSTS activity editor path editor? 2D map, place start point, click "take other exit" for any switch you want it to diverge, place end point and save. Then you can set up eleventy-six different AI services to follow that same path instead of having to add 5,782 navigate via instructions for each new train.

Nirvana for me, add Trainz copy-paste merge route features to the RW world editor, add Trainz AI traffic logic and the ability to change driver instructions ingame to the old MSTS activity editor, there's a perfect set of tools.

There is a way in trainz so that you only have to create a list of schedules then do "drive schedule". This way you dont need to create a billion different instructions for each train you can create it once then use it over and over again.

hert:wave:
 
I have no doubts that they'll release a 'Railworks 3', however, I suspect it will be the current incarnation with (some of) the features promised in their spring preview, and the multiplayer support. It certainly won't be a reworking of the game or it's engine in any indepth way.

The transition from Railworks to Railworks 2 was purely a marketing stunt, the same will be true of the Railworks 3 release when it happens (probably about the end of this year - at a guess, Dec 31st when they realise they need to release *something* or else they've lied about the multiplayer 'before the end of the year' promise)

About the same as N3V and Trainz then, Nikki. :hehe:

IKB.
 
Pretty much comes down to choosing the lesser of evils. OT, Happy Birthday next Saturday if I don't see you, ya olde geezer! :p

"There is a way in trainz so that you only have to create a list of schedules then do "drive schedule". This way you dont need to create a billion different instructions for each train you can create it once then use it over and over again."

I'm gonna start a new topic on this in Surveyors and WhateverElseItIs, I see a zillion rules - "No description provided". No instructions on use, sometimes the name of the rule gives a vague clue as to what it's for, but usually they're just names that could be "widget" in Swahili. Trainz rules remind me of the first few years of "Ask your doctor about Rogaine with Minoxodyl!" without giving even a hint what the product actually did. Turns out it's for growning hair on baldies, but they never mentioned that the first couple of years.
 
AC

Jim you have your heating bills we have our AC bills of $500, to $ 600 a month. It gets so hot here that handrails on an engine can't be touched, In fact it's so hot here that sand sharks have been known to attack engines on the UP!
 
Neener neener neener!

http://www.wunderground.com/US/WI/Stevens_Point.html

Up in the 70s this weekend, 60s most of the week, we're actually looking for 80s and 90s for beach parties - only had three days so far this year it was warm enough to take the grandcritters to the beach.

I know what it's like tho, I was in a US Navy heavy antisubmarine helicopter squadron 30 years ago, and them Soviet missile submarine skippers were no dummies - play around near Greenland and Nova Scotia in December, screw around in the Caribbean in July, trying to track them it was always either too hot or too cold. :'(
 
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