Prototype vs. Fun to run

[Thai1On]

Coming from a model train background I am painfully aware of size restrictions evolved in model railroading. Now that I have entered into the world of virtual railroading I no longer worry about space. All though I am becoming aware I need to build a new computer to see this sim in its full glory.

One thing about model railroading that I enjoyed was the "fun factor" or runnin them trains! I want to build a route that will run north for 95 miles before turning west and running another 77 miles to be a railroad that never was set in real life scenery map. This is something I could never dream of doing in HO.

I have been reading about large routes being designed or built and thinking about the "fun factor" and which would be more enjoyable? Would it be better to shrink the route by say half and use best guess scenery from google maps or "keeping it real" and stick with the full route and lose the model train feel?

 

[DELETED-aYx9Q4SYwhiI2h6]

I'm like you; I have a model train background and love the fun factor.

I quickly get bored with miles and miles of realistic scenary. I like action so I say go for the fun factor.

Besides I have no idea how real trains operate.

Dave

 

[wholbr]

Hi Their
I take it that this will be your first routes, so my advice would be to start by not thinking too big. It may even be an advantage to start with an imaginary route or just a small section of the large route you intend to build..

The ideal start I believe is to lay track between two stations approximately 3 to 4 miles apart with perhaps a gradient somewhere along the route and signaling. Then learn how to develop the topography around the track and how to populate the scenery with buildings, hedges and roads etc. you could also build your first tunnel and bridge. Remember it's your creation it can be anything you want it to be.

Building your stations with footbridges, canopies, lights and buildings I have always found to be the most pleasant part. You then have the pleasure of driving or just riding on your first consist into the stations.

Most importantly don't think too big or too complicated when starting your first route. We often see newcomers to our hobby posting that they are going to create a large route with all sorts of railyards, industries and complex stations but then unfortunately we never hear from them again.

So to sum up, start simple and build your skills gradually ensuring that you have each skill firmly planted in your mind before moving on to the next. Be patient, everything takes time to learn and create. But most importantly have fun. You will make mistakes so laugh at what you have done, and then if necessary delete what you have done learn from the mistake and start again.

Hope this helps, so have a great time

Bill

 

[Vern]

Well I prefer to run prototype routes - a journey of 80 to 100 miles can easily be broken up into 3 or 4 driving sessions. Not saying model or condensed routes don't have a place, but not really a substitute for an interesting real world rail line. However my biggest problem at the moment is I seem to have lost my patience, or mojo, when it actually comes to building such routes myself. Easy to lay the track but when you start to paint and place scenery on that first 1km strip, with the realisation there's another 119km to go is when the pain hits...

 

[cascaderailroad]

Personally when building a route, I lay track and adjust curves and gradients ... asside from a few named Towers to mark the cities or locations, my routes have no textures or trees ... these will come dead last.

Track & Topography only, first ... Git' Er' Dun' is my motto

 

[wholbr]

Hi Vern and Everybody.

However my biggest problem at the moment is I seem to have lost my patience, or mojo, when it actually comes to building such routes myself. Easy to lay the track but when you start to paint and place scenery on that first 1km strip, with the realisation there's another 119km to go is when the pain hits...

I've got a job to believe that you have really ran out of patience Vern. I have always viewed you as one of the true Trainz veterans with patience and skills to match

I find route building is something to relax with. With the exception of posting on the forum last night I have been busy over the last couple of days investigating and completing a workplace accident report. After returning from Exeter this evening I have come up to the office and spent a good hour and a half on my North Devon route.

It's something to relax with as I built the scenery around Blackmore gate on Exmoor taking my time and not setting any deadlines as to how much I will do this evening. That I find is the key, not setting any timescales or deadlines. Just do it as you feel you want to do it, taking your time and admiring what you have done before moving on.

Like this evening. As I said done about a hour and a half, broke off, looked on the formum, went and got myself a glass of wine, posted on the forum and now I may think about doing a bit more on my route.

That's the key I find, making sure that it is enjoyment and relaxation.

Bill

 

[philskene]

Smaller can be more beautiful

Hi Thai1On --

Welcome to Trainz.

I began with big routes but I must admit that my routes have become progressively smaller and smaller.

The first route that I released was "AustralBay" which went through several iterations before becoming the Port Ogden and Northern that is now included in TS2010 (you will find a better and updated version of this route on the Download Station).

Next it was "IndustRail" which became bigger and "better" as it expanded.

Both PO&N and IndustRail are big routes. Then it was medium sized routes (Riverside) and even smaller ones like HarborMaster and DowntownTraction (both in TS2010, both with improved versions on the DLS).

But my latest pair, and the one that gives me greatest pride, are "IntenCity" and "Krashnburne". The first is just one baseboard, the second only two. But in many respects I find these two small routes just as much fun, possibly even more fun, than the bigger routes. And, hey, they took so much less time to make.

Phil

 

[IsambardKingdomBrunel]

Prototype for me every time, i cannot stand piddly little model trainset type routes.

IKB.

 

[mrscsi]

Coming from a model train background I am painfully aware of size restrictions evolved in model railroading. Now that I have entered into the world of virtual railroading I no longer worry about space. All though I am becoming aware I need to build a new computer to see this sim in its full glory.

One thing about model railroading that I enjoyed was the "fun factor" or runnin them trains! I want to build a route that will run north for 95 miles before turning west and running another 77 miles to be a railroad that never was set in real life scenery map. This is something I could never dream of doing in HO.

I have been reading about large routes being designed or built and thinking about the "fun factor" and which would be more enjoyable? Would it be better to shrink the route by say half and use best guess scenery from google maps or "keeping it real" and stick with the full route and lose the model train feel?

I would say do whatever makes you feel good, I bought TransDem and had a big smile on my face knowing that I could now create the "world" realistically. But quickly found out that laying 100 miles of track, not to mention the yards it was then I had to put in 100 miles of texture, vegetation, fence, power lines, all the roads and bridges and not to mention buildings and parking lots etc. etc. etc.

It can be a rather daunting task, for me anyway because I just am relaxed watching trains roll through a desert landscape like what I see here in the Southwest. I like industries and making trains do things etc. but I don't know if I have within me to take years to painstakingly re-create the landscape that some content creators and Route builders have done.

That's really the beautiful thing about this particular simulation, it can be all things to all people. It can be as simple as you want it or as complex. I think the key is to strike a balance somewhere between the two where you feel comfortable...

On a side note if you really want to get into prototypical or even more realistic fun route building, investing in TransDem should be your next move. I find that even on realistic terrains you don't have to lay track realistically. You don't have to put industries or buildings exactly where they're supposed to go, you can build your fun factor into the Route and have realistic looking terrain a whole lot easier than trying to terraform from scratch...

 

[stovepipe]

For me it's prototypical routes all the way..........but in the UK there are plenty of examples of 20-40 mile sections of routes that could be done in a reasonable timescale.

I imagine though that the distances involved in doing a proto US or AUS route could be a large disincentive, and maybe fun-to-run is a better way to go. If you go fun-to-run, remember that real railways have gradients, so be sure to put some in your route too......

 

[Wyonate]

For me I like the larger routes and set the AI to run to destinations with unit trains in repeat mode. (exsample, BNSF coal = drive to mine, load, drive to plant, unload, wait __ mins, repeat). While that is running you can do all your switching, running locals, and working industries. When you have a train built, send it to the destination, then work in another town/industry/refinery what not.

 

[Dap]

I'm very much into prototype - both route and operations. I also enjoy doing the research needed for a prototype route. I am currently historically modeling the Ft Dodge, Des Moines & Southern. I started it several years ago as the Boon Valley Coal & Railway company and have extended the track and changed the name as the prototype did. It started as a steam line, then was electrified and then moved to diesel.

I first laid all the track and detailed everything. Of course it was only 3-1/2 miles of mainline track. As the railroad has grown, I have done less scenery, but have laid all the track. I am up to 103 miles of mainline track and am able to operate according to the 1905 timetable. I also use the CMTM car destination system which keeps me busy delivering freight to all my customers.

I have also taken up creating prototypical operating sessions for both prototype routes and fantisy routes. I am currently working on a 7 day session for Philskene's Harbor Master route.

Trainz offers something for everyone. The best part is the Trainz Community. Have a question? Just ask here on the Forums. Need an asset? Most likely someone has already made it or is willing to make it for you (if you ask nicely).

Just go with what you enjoy and you will soon find you have no life outside of Trainz .

David

 

[JCitron]

I too like the prototype of running myself. I find that the small table-size model railroads are quaint and fun, but the train acts as though it's chasing its tale. I did build and upload a small-sized layout based on the Scenic and Relaxed from John Armstrong's Nine-NScale layouts. This was actually the basis for my own N-Scale layout I had several years ago.

Anyway, I have taken DEM files, imported using Hog, and more recently TransDem, and used them as a basis for some imaginery parts of my route. The section from Bristol to Sandy Point is non-existent in real life. Bristol is Bangor Maine, and Sandy Point is fictional. I decided to "scout" the land out and lay the track as it could have been, and went with it. The end result wasn't half bad. A little tweaking here and there with the grades, and it looks totally convincing. You'd think the route was there in read life.

As the others have said here, take it easy and let it come to you in bits and pieces. Going full guns on a big layout can become a drag as you get overpowered. What you might want to try is to fit different scenes and areas from the prototype into your route. One of things I do is look at maps, online, and in books as well as 3d images from Bing. This gives me ideas on track layouts for yards, city streets, and industrial parks. I then go about building these little vignettes into the route so that they blend in to make a cities, towns, and the countryside.

John

 

[sparky15]

Virtual railroading is the ultimate kit bash. A basement route might only have a mile or two of prototype trackage. Computer based, might have all of it. Find what it is you like and go with it. No restrictions at all. You can have a 200 mile prototype mainline in addition to a basement sized route or anywhere in between.

The biggest draw back of this simulator is what you want to make. It's an open canvass with zero restrictions. I like model railroad type routes along with long run prototypes. No basement walls, wallet or lack of space. The only hinderance is your time. The ultimate I wish scenario.

It's all up to you and your time.

 

[Thai1On]

Great comments and there all very helpful. I must agree I want this to be fun and relaxing. I find when I get home from teaching English conversation all day its nice and relaxing to sit down and start building the world.

Two comments I really find interesting are, build the line between two stations first and building individual boards.

Building between two or in my case three stations Levi, Booneville, and Beattyville Kentucky is a perfect start and very doable! I'll be starting right away.

I too use google images and bing to find old pictures of yards, passenger stations, and my favorite engine service facilities to try recreate with my slant thrown in. Now if I build these "modules" can they be later brought into the master map or route?

 

[Retro00064]

Great comments and there all very helpful. I must agree I want this to be fun and relaxing. I find when I get home from teaching English conversation all day its nice and relaxing to sit down and start building the world.

Two comments I really find interesting are, build the line between two stations first and building individual boards.

Building between two or in my case three stations Levi, Booneville, and Beattyville Kentucky is a perfect start and very doable! I'll be starting right away.

I too use google images and bing to find old pictures of yards, passenger stations, and my favorite engine service facilities to try recreate with my slant thrown in. Now if I build these "modules" can they be later brought into the master map or route?

Yes, they can, by using the "Merge Route" function in the Surveyor menu.

Regards.

 

[JIb228]

I tend to build my own routes, and combine both model railroading and prototypical railroading. I like taking a train out on a long haul, but at the same time dont want to watch the same tree, road, cow, tree, go by.

So I lay out about 7-8 miles of main line, then add some town with a few switches leading off to no where. Then after I have built most of that base board, I come back and do track. So my "track crews" have to lay track the way real crews do. Avoiding buildings and what not. Gives my routs a more realistic feel, yet keeping them fun both in building and running.

My mainlines are first haphazardly laid out, then I refine them until they look prototypical. I even try to include features from real railroad's in mine. But just as in model railroading, my layouts are never done. Even my favorite layout, only 8 boards long, sees work, and lots of changes.

I then use a lot of AI trains to keep the main line pumping, while I try to do a few switch jobs.

But to each is his own, what works for me might not work for you.

 

[chrisjohn]

For me it is the construction of timetables, and interaction of trains at an interchange between several lines. It may be a large station, where several lines converge or terminate. Only a few miles of track exist in any direction, terminating in a portal set to return the train at a predetermined delay. This means I can have several trains running in virtual "loops". The point then is to watch the trains, from a point other than a driving or passenger position, or in fact to become the signalman, when there is conflict. The "navigate to" is to wide a construct as AI trains try to avoid a block. I would rather the trains wait until the obstruction such as a junction is cleared for the train to continue to its proper platform, than do a complicated manoeuvre planned by AI.

 

[Vern]

I've got a job to believe that you have really ran out of patience Vern.

I admire your "Zen" approach, perhaps I should learn to adopt that!

I finally gave in and ordered a new laptop as at least some of the frustration has come from not being able to develop properly in TS2009/10 (or even RW) on the existing one. It seems my performance problems are at least in part due to the machine beginning to die (either the HD or the HD/Mainboard interface). Rather than get it repaired, I decided to put the money towards a new 64 bit build which should be the incentive to get cracking with some of the projects which I've wanted to progress. It will hopefully be future proof for at least the next couple of Trainz re-issues!

 

[Railwayz]

Now if I build these "modules" can they be later brought into the master map or route?

They sure can! Just use the merge function from the menu on the top of the screen and merge the different modules together. Keep in mind though that they can't be rotated as they merge with each other so it's something you might like to consider when you're beginning each module.

As for your original question it's entirely up to you as everybody has already said. For me my day job was driving main line freight trains so I tended to lean toward the bigger routes. Now that I'm a little older I tend to enjoy shunting and staying close to home more both at work and in the simulation. Occasionally though it's still enjoyable to go for a long run over varied terrain, so why not build both types?

Railwayz