Overcautious signals

R

rhban

Active member
I haven't given up on trs yet, but I have encountered another strange phenomenon: at this stage, I have one piece of double track with three stations. Since it is only a beginning, the track has neither beginning or end apart from track markers telling trains this is the end and signals just after.
I expected, therefore, that the end signals would be red and one or two before that yellow. Instead, every single signal is yellow!
I am using Sig_2AD_Gantry_OHL.
Any explanations? It is annoying because the trains will only go at reduced (I think 2/3) speed.
 
What your signal does can depend on the outcome.

What does the signal look like?
Do you have the KUID?

If we can see the signal, we can help you.

If there are any switches set against the AI way down the track, or if there's another driver ahead, the signals will be yellow. You'll also receive the same outcome as the AI approaches a buffer since the buffer is treated as a stop signal to the AI.

The signal rules in the US, UK and most likely Australia state that if the signal is yellow, the driver will operate under caution or roughly 1/2 the posted speed for the line, and a yellow signal is a caution signal. The reason for this is to warn the driver to prepare to stop at the next signal should that suddenly become red.
 
It is kuid2:125145:24005:3
but as I said, what is most strange is that the signal, that is just before the track ends, is yellow instead of red. Nearly as strange as the fact that every signal the whole length of the track through 3 stations are also yellow. As I said above, the normal expectation is that the signal at the end of a track, buffer or no buffer, will be permanently red and one or two signals before that will be yellow. If I had a different signal, some of them might be showing double yellow to indicate caution ahead, but these are all plain yellow, both directions.
 
So I changed 3 of the signals to UK Gantry 4aspect, kuid2:67906:24101:1 and got straight greens except for one direction through the tunnel. I drove my train manually through the tunnel and, as expected discovered not one obstruction! This game is designed to drive us mad!!
 
The signals are acting as they should.

We basically have these signals to work with regardless of where we live or model in our world.

Absolute = stop signals. They are either red or green and are used to block or allow entry on to a line.

Diverging = Usually two heads or may be a feather signal for UK and Australia. Used to indicate a split usually between single to double track.

Permissive/Distant/Home = These are lumped together in Trainz due to how the AI interpret the signals. Basically, in real life, a distant signal or home signal will indicate the upcoming signal. Your signal 02 may very well be a distant signal which explains why it remained yellow. A permissive signal will have a name-bar underneath the signal head for the driver to call out and ask for permission to pass. Since the AI can't call-out they'll pass the signal.

And finally, there's the interlocking signal used for crossovers between lines, wyes, and other junctions.

Knowing what the signals are used for will help you place the signals you need to use in various places. Using a permissive signal as an absolute signal can cause things not to work correctly as you saw with the 02 signal and no buffer.
 
rhban said:
So I changed 3 of the signals to UK Gantry 4aspect, kuid2:67906:24101:1 and got straight greens except for one direction through the tunnel. I drove my train manually through the tunnel and, as expected discovered not one obstruction! This game is designed to drive us mad!!
Click to expand...
no its the person behind the computer that is running the game that is the Culprit... Gotta be thinking straight or you aint doing anything right or the game acts strange.. based on the signals you have given us to look at and have described THEY ARE WORKING AS INTENDED!
 
rhban said:
Ah, I didn't know that. Of course, it would help if many things in DLS were named better or at least had info files attached.
Click to expand...
That's true of a lot of things with Trainz unfortunately. It doesn't help either that what is called one thing in one place isn't called the same in another. While all the signals work the same, they're not always called the same which is what's confusing as well.

And finally, this comes from real-world observation and experience. When I setup my routes, I use signaling practices that are similar or as close as I can to the signal configuration where I live. I noticed that when I did that with my Trainz route in the early days, the AI actually did what they were supposed to do. There are exceptions due to the eccentric nature of the AI forcing us to make exceptions to the rule especially in places with complex trackage but for the most part the AI do follow signals as intended.
 
RetroRails12 said:
no its the person behind the computer that is running the game that is the Culprit... Gotta be thinking straight or you aint doing anything right or the game acts strange.. based on the signals you have given us to look at and have described THEY ARE WORKING AS INTENDED!
Click to expand...
Pity that the intention of the signals is not...er, signalled. They just come with strange code names.
 
JCitron said:
The signals are acting as they should.

We basically have these signals to work with regardless of where we live or model in our world.

Absolute = stop signals. They are either red or green and are used to block or allow entry on to a line.

Diverging = Usually two heads or may be a feather signal for UK and Australia. Used to indicate a split usually between single to double track.

Permissive/Distant/Home = These are lumped together in Trainz due to how the AI interpret the signals. Basically, in real life, a distant signal or home signal will indicate the upcoming signal. Your signal 02 may very well be a distant signal which explains why it remained yellow. A permissive signal will have a name-bar underneath the signal head for the driver to call out and ask for permission to pass. Since the AI can't call-out they'll pass the signal.

And finally, there's the interlocking signal used for crossovers between lines, wyes, and other junctions.

Knowing what the signals are used for will help you place the signals you need to use in various places. Using a permissive signal as an absolute signal can cause things not to work correctly as you saw with the 02 signal and no buffer.
Click to expand...
A very nice lesson, it prevents you to take for granted something which is not actually about the signals. I was completely unaware of the role the Diverging signal plays.
 
rhban said:
So I changed 3 of the signals to UK Gantry 4aspect, kuid2:67906:24101:1 and got straight greens except for one direction through the tunnel. I drove my train manually through the tunnel and, as expected discovered not one obstruction! This game is designed to drive us mad!!
Click to expand...
I will agree and disagree with your last sentence at the same time. It forces me to say that undoubtedly we all have met this weird feeling from time to time with this game and its logic, on the other hand, i think the majority of the old members will agree that after some years of using Trainz one certain benefit is that it makes your mind more sharpened, it has some frustrations i agree but for sure it does not make you more dumb.
 
rhban said:
I haven't given up on trs yet, but I have encountered another strange phenomenon: at this stage, I have one piece of double track with three stations. Since it is only a beginning, the track has neither beginning or end apart from track markers telling trains this is the end and signals just after.
I expected, therefore, that the end signals would be red and one or two before that yellow. Instead, every single signal is yellow!
I am using Sig_2AD_Gantry_OHL.
Any explanations? It is annoying because the trains will only go at reduced (I think 2/3) speed.
Click to expand...
Haave you got an answer for this yet?

The signal sig_2AD_gantry_OHL is named with a convention that is straightforward and easy to understand once you get to know it.
1 - the 2AD bit is the important one. 2A means "2 aspect" - the signal can only display 2 colours. D means "Distant", the 2 colours are yellow or green. So a 2AD means only Y/G. You will not get a red.
2 You should be using signals with names like "Sig 3A" to show the full range of R/Y/G or "sig 4a" for R/Y/YY/G
3 Some of these signal are scripted to act like a prototype distant signal. This will ONLY show green if any following Stop signals are clear.As you've not got any stop signals, they cannot be clear, so the distant is always "On"
 
davidbird said:
Haave you got an answer for this yet?

The signal sig_2AD_gantry_OHL is named with a convention that is straightforward and easy to understand once you get to know it.
1 - the 2AD bit is the important one. 2A means "2 aspect" - the signal can only display 2 colours. D means "Distant", the 2 colours are yellow or green. So a 2AD means only Y/G. You will not get a red.
2 You should be using signals with names like "Sig 3A" to show the full range of R/Y/G or "sig 4a" for R/Y/YY/G
3 Some of these signal are scripted to act like a prototype distant signal. This will ONLY show green if any following Stop signals are clear.As you've not got any stop signals, they cannot be clear, so the distant is always "On"
Click to expand...
Thank you for that. I had no idea that the 'AD' part of the name had any significance - I just thought it was a name. Now, I really must check which signals I have placed.
 
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