No 21st Century Steam for 2016 According to Norfolk Southern

[UnumProvident155]

ROANOKE, Va. – Norfolk Southern says the railroad has “fulfilled the program’s goals, and we are scaling back now” in regards to its vastly popular 21st Century Steam Program. In an article published in The Roanoke Times on Dec. 21, Norfolk Southern said the company would not operate any 21st Century Steam trips for the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum or the Ft. Wayne Railroad Historical Society in 2016.
“For one thing, the 21st Century Steam program is over. Begun in 2011,the program was conceived with a five-year life span,” NS spokesperson Susan Terpay told the Roanoke Times.
“We have advised our third party, the Virginia Museum of Transportation, that we will work with them, if they meet financial and operational requirements, so that they can run 611 in Virginia and the Carolinas in 2016,” Terpay added.
Trains News Wire reached out to the Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Society and the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum to see how this affects their 2016 operations and schedule

 

[jordon412]

I had a feeling that this would happen now that Mr. Moorman's retired.

 

[Matt3985]

Such a shame, they only just got the 4501 and 611 running again too.

 

[wholbr]

Hi everybody.
I think the Norfolk & Southern directors feel they have much more important matters on their hands at the moment, such as the preservation of their jobs and large executive salaries in the light of the Canadian Pacific takeover bid. After all there will be no need of that load of "fat cats" if it succeeds. One more Boardroom gone that is living on the backs of the employees that do the real work and the money of the investors.

Shame about the steam though.
Bill.

 

[rwk]

I knew the 765 trips on NS in PA were going to be a one time deal, that's why I rode them. The Horseshoe Curve, and the Lehigh Gorge Special from Bethlehem, PA through Allentown to Pittston and Jim Thorpe. Looks like there won't be any mainline steam outside of the south (VA, NC, SC) next year. That means 765 won't be going east of Ohio again for a long time. At least I got to see and ride behind it twice. The non-NS railroads that it will run on next year and beyond are too far for me to go to. Like CVSR, SRI in Owosso, MI, etc. It will be just like 2009-2011 again. 765 will be able to use NS for ferry moves, but not excursions. Looks like we will have to hoof it down to Virginia to ride behind 611 if my mom is willing to travel that far. Shame that TVRM ended it's contract with NS, too but they have 50 miles of their own railroad to run on with 630 and 4501. 611 has nothing except NS to run on, and a short stretch at the VMT. They are dependent on NS being steam friendly to run long trips for the public. Maybe Jim Squires has a heart and is willing to let the 611 run despite the program ending. At least they're not parking the 611, too.

 

[stevelerro]

Just because there isn't an NS sponsored program doesn't mean the engines won't run. The Virginia Museum of Transportation started a trademark program which is raising the funds needed to run the engine. Anyone that sells merchandise involving 611 owes a percentage to the museum which they are putting towards the 611s operation. So even though NS isn't sponsoring a program, there are still plans to run 611, and NS has stated that they will allow the engine to run on their rails. 4501 is owned and run by the TVRM. So they have all the means to support the engine without NS's help. So just because there is no program, doesn't mean they can't be ran. It's funny how everyone that complains the engines don't run have probably never paid a dime towards either engines operating costs. So who do you think pays for that?

 

[jordon412]

Personally, I wish that NS and TVRM will reach an agreement so that they can continue to run the Chattanooga-Cleveland excursions during their annual Railfest.

 

[rwk]

Yes, TVRM has 50 miles of track to run 630 and 4501 on. It's a lot of work to run these engines everywhere and the crews had to travel with the train for weeks at a time. It is neat seeing steam in cities and lines that normally don't have steam, or Amtrak, or passenger trains of any kind like my area of Allentown, PA or Macon, GA, or Bristol, VA but it costs a lot for coal, insurance, and other things to run these trips. FWRHS stated that NS will assist them in getting the 765 anywhere it needs to go, they can do anything on NS except run a passenger excursion. So, they could take the 765 back to the Reading and Northern and Steamtown and run trips there without touching NS when people are on board. They could run Jim Thorpe-Pittston and Scranton-Water Gap without touching NS. At the Jim Thorpe end they could take the train to Haucks wye to turn the train between trips. But since they were already there this year they probably wouldn't return for a long time. It's a shame there were no steam trips on NS's ex-Reading lines in PA from Harrisburg to Reading, Philly, and Allentown during the life of the new program. There was an Amtrak trip from Philly to Harrisburg via Reading last year, I would like to see a trip like that repeated again. That is very rare mileage that nobody gets to ride except NS employees. NS will continue to allow special Amtrak trips. And 611 can continue to run on NS. Next year, there might be trips with 611 in VA, NC, and SC on Norfolk Southern. There might be a rare Amtrak trip from Allentown to NJ next spring as a test run to drum up support for returning commuter rail service to the Lehigh Valley area of PA. I just rode behind 765 from Bethlehem to Pittston and Jim Thorpe in August. That trip will probably not be repeated again.

 

[Thai1On]

I'm hoping that 611 runs in 2016 because after returning from Thailand after many years living outside the US I really need my steam fix. My lovely wife has never rode behind a steam locomotive nor has she ever seen one operate and it is time for her to see what all the excitement is about. Now after finding my coal smoke and cinder stained cap and bandanna it's time to freshen it up with a new ride.

Dave

 

[Beasty101]

I would not worry about any hostile takeover at this point. The amount offered for NS shares was not even at 50% of the value they are worth. Also consider regulations and the statements made when Conrail got annexed by NS and CSXT. It was said by many investors that any further mergers would bring about monopolies, put other transportation companies at a very large disadvantage in a already small sector when it comes to choices for companies to move their goods. You also have the unions which would also fight this tooth and nail as there would surely be a huge number of jobs lost which would greatly impact dues collected. They would in turn launch huge lobbying efforts. A year or so of the railroad not sponsoring the steam program is not a real issue. Especially considering they have already spent millions into that program and other heritage projects.

 

[wholbr]

Hi everybody.
I believe that the prospect of a hostile takeover of Norfolk southern by Canadian Pacific should be taken seriously for a number of reasons. The financial gearing of norfolk southern has been a major problem with the company for a number of years. The company in its last financial report declared its total liabilities as being over 21 million dollars, while it's total equity holdings stood at only 12 million dollars. The foregoing is the reason for Norfolk Southern having a low value share price as compared to Canadian Pacific a railroad of the same comparative size as NS.

The above figures have been an ongoing concern for Norfolk Southern major shareholders, where over 50% of the total stock holding is in the hands of no more than 20 institutional and mutual investment trusts. The financial press has been reporting that the foregoing investors have formed a single negotiating body to directly talk to Canadian Pacific In regards to its latest offer.

Should the above talks be successful then these majority shareholders may well take the matter to the NS annual general meeting to be held in May 2016 and force the present board of directors to resign. The foregoing could be accomplished by bringing forward a motion of “no confidence” in the present directors (forcing their resignations) and then appointing a board more in line with the then wishes of the majority shareholders.

The above situation has been brought about by CP making a further revision to its offer for Norfolk Southern. In that revision Canadian Pacific have added security called a “contingent value right” that would provide insurance for Norfolk Southern shareholders if stock in the combined companies fell below $175 US dollars before the regulator makes a ruling on the merger.

The above adjustment has raised “a ripple of concern” on the brow of CPs financial director, who has voiced his views on the financial burden Canadian Pacific would carry if they have to make good on the contingent value right offer. However, the Canadian Pacific board advised several weeks ago that it would make a "street fight" of the takeover if the Norfolk Southern board continued to refuse to enter into serious negotiations with the CP board in regard to the merger.

Well, a no holds barred street fight has certainly developed with the heads of both boards of directors on the line (pun intended) in regards to the outcome. In my humble opinion, the board of Norfolk Southern would do well to consider seriously the revised offer, for should Canadian Pacific walk away, then NS would be wide open to a hostile takeover by such bodies as venture capitalist groups who may well be only interested in breaking up the company to realise its land holding and building assets as a quick return on their investment.

if the above was a US owned venture capitalist company there would be little the regulator, unions or any other body would be able to do in regards to the securing the future of Norfolk southern in its present form.

For myself i do love reading on these takeover battles as they give small savers/investors a chance to see their equity (by way of their institutional and mutual fund managers) make very real gains in a no lose situation, and that's the way it should be.

Bill

 

[rwk]

I feel it is a jip that the 765 runs from Scranton, PA to Nicholson, PA and Binghamton, NY and the 4501 runs from Atlanta, GA to Toccoa, GA were canceled last year, but the reasons were beyond the railroad's control. The 765 Nicholson runs were cancelled due to CP. NS didn't own the track yet, and CP was having a fit over the trips, and wanted a high amount for insurance. Hunter Harrison current head of CP wants nothing to do with steam locomotives. Like CSX. You won't see steam on any "C" class 1 railroads for a long time if ever. That's CSX, CP and CN. The 4501 Atlanta trips were canned because of heavy rains. Now NS is ending it's contracts with TVRM and FWRHS so those canceled trips won't even be able to be made up in the future due to the contracts ending and the insurance dropped. You can't run excursion trains without insurance coverage and it isn't cheap. Probably one of the reasons ticket costs were so high as well as the cost of coal. At least they are letting 611 run more trips. But in Trains Magazine, Feb 16 issue it says in the CP merger article that if it happens, Harrison would leave Canadian Pacific, assume control at NS, and implement his ultra-lean operating practices. Meanwhile, CP or NS would be placed in a voting trust while federal regulators take two years to review the merger. Well, if that happens you can kiss ALL steam goodbye on NS! No more 611 trips! 611 will have to sit cold at the VMT again for years! 765 might not even be able to go anywhere with Harrison in charge of NS even though NS says now that they will assist the FWRHS in getting the 765 anywhere it needs to go. Such as to the CVSR in Ohio to run trips.

 

[wholbr]

Snip~ In Trains Magazine, Feb 16 issue it says in the CP merger article that if it happens, Harrison would leave Canadian Pacific, assume control at NS, and implement his ultra-lean operating practices. Meanwhile, CP or NS would be placed in a voting trust while federal regulators take two years to review the merger. ~snip

Undoubtedly "ultra-lean operating practices" is exactly what Northern Southern require at this point in time if it is to rectify its financial gearing problems which are causing its low share value price. The foregoing are the very factors that has opened up NS to hostile take over and will continue to do so as long as those problems remain. Norfolk Southern should concentrate on its core business of moving bulk freight and leave heritage steam running to to the various voluntary groups and society's that do not have to worry about investment returns for their shareholders.

Norfolk & Southern directors have got the company into the position it is now finds itself in and nobody else holds any responsibility but them. I believe that the majority institutional and Mutual investment group stockholders will continue to back the company if its financial gearing and underline investment return problems are addressed. Therefore, the NS board needs to put up or get out and hand over to persons who will run the company in a responsible financial manner. For if Canadian Pacific walk away then Norfolk Southern could well fall victim to a Venture Capital group takeover that may mean that NS would not be recognizable as in its present form within a very short period of time.

Bill

 

[santafe8643]

So 611 is no longer running? :'(

I never thought I have to say this again but…#fireup611!!!!!

 

[cascaderailroad]

One does not simply throw coal and water into an old rustbucket, and quickly fire up an old locomotive ... it has to be boiler re-certified, and re-insured

Why is it that you have bumped @ 40 very old threads, all today, all just minutes apart ?

 

[rwk]

611 is still running mainline excursions, there are more this year! All in NC and VA. Tickets are going fast though. The domes are popular.