New User - Hardware Question

[ajleske]

Hi All,
I only downloaded Trainz 2010 last night - I got addicted to the iPad version so decided to get the full version for my PC. My problem is regarding the "jerking" motion or lag I am experiencing. It is fairly noticeable when operating any loco using any view other than the cab - I will be watching the loco stutter as it progresses along its route.
Now I must admit I know nothing about how computers operate and the requirements needed - I had to use google to work out how to find my graphics card .
So, I am using an AMD Phenom 9750 Quad Core 2.40GHz, with 4.00 GB RAM, on Windows 7, 32 bit operating system, direct x version 11, and an ATI Radeon HD 3450 graphics card.
So my question is, is my hardware adequate for running Trainz 2010 or do I need to upgrade a graphics card or something.
Sorry if this has been answered somewhere else or if I have posted this in the wrong spot, like I said, I am pretty new to this.
Thanks for your help,
Aaron

 

[Euphod]

Direct x version is wrong, I believe. Go to your Auran/Trainz/2010 folder and look in the bin folder. Find the trainz Diag file and run it, then post results here.

 

[Bill69]

Hi All,
I only downloaded Trainz 2010 last night - I got addicted to the iPad version so decided to get the full version for my PC. My problem is regarding the "jerking" motion or lag I am experiencing. It is fairly noticeable when operating any loco using any view other than the cab - I will be watching the loco stutter as it progresses along its route.
Now I must admit I know nothing about how computers operate and the requirements needed - I had to use google to work out how to find my graphics card .
So, I am using an AMD Phenom 9750 Quad Core 2.40GHz, with 4.00 GB RAM, on Windows 7, 32 bit operating system, direct x version 11, and an ATI Radeon HD 3450 graphics card.
So my question is, is my hardware adequate for running Trainz 2010 or do I need to upgrade a graphics card or something.
Sorry if this has been answered somewhere else or if I have posted this in the wrong spot, like I said, I am pretty new to this.
Thanks for your help,
Aaron

Hi Aaron,

Looking at yor computer specs I would think the HD3450 graphics card is the bottleneck. You don't say how much memory the graphics card has but it is probably only 256Mb. The latest graphics cards are quite expensive but if you go for one that has 1Gb of memory and somewhere about the 5800 series you should get much better performance. To find out how may frames per second (fps) you are getting in 2010 run the game for a while then when you close it down navigate to the main Trainz folder and open the file 'jetlog.txt'
It will open in notebook, scroll down to the very bottom of the file and it will show the average fps and the time run in seconds. If your average is below about 40fps you will get stuttering.

Cheers,
Bill69

 

[itareus]

Aaron,

You could try switching between DirectX and OpenGL and see if this makes any difference.

To do this: From the Trainz Launch screen (first screen when you start Trainz) select "Options". Then select the "Display Settings" tab. At the top of the tab is "Display Mode" - change this to the option not currently selected (there are only 2 - OpenGL or DirectX).

You could also check that you are not running in "Compatibilty Mode" which may slow things down. To do this: From the Launch screen click "Start" and then when Trainz loads click "Menu" > "Options" and look under "Video Settings", there is a checkbox for Compatability mode. Also on this screen are some other settings for graphics, turning some of these down to lower settings should improve FPS performance.

As suggested by Bill69 your graphics card is probably the bottleneck but before you consider upgrading this you should check to see if your PC Power Supply Unit (PSU) is capable of supporting a faster card - generally speaking the more powerful the card the greater its power supply requirements. There are also other complications about the number and type of connections required by some cards.

 

[ajleske]

Direct x version is wrong, I believe. Go to your Auran/Trainz/2010 folder and look in the bin folder. Find the trainz Diag file and run it, then post results here.

Okay, first off, thanks guys for the quick replies - greatly appreciated!

Here are the results (I assume this is what you are after):

CPU Speed : ~2.40 GHZ : Passed
CPU supports SSE instructions : Passed
System Memory : 3583 MB : Passed
Hard Drive Space: 251.40 GB Free : Passed
OpenGL : Version 3.2 : Passed
DirectX : Version 10.0 or later : Passed
Desktop Mode : 32 bit colors : Passed
Card Type : ATI Radeon HD 3450 : Passed
Video Driver's Age : 12 months old : Passed
AGP Memory : 1535MB Free : Passed
Total Video Mem : 1786MB : Passed
Stencil Buffer : 8 Bits : Passed
Multi-Texturing : 8 Textures : Passed
Texture Compression DXT : Passed
Texture Combiners : Passed
Vertex Shaders : Version 1.1 : Passed
Pixel Shaders : Version 2.0 : Passed
Bump Mapping : Passed
Spherical Environment Mapping : Passed
Cubic Environment Mapping : Passed
Vertex Buffers : Passed
NVIDIA driver compatibility : Passed
Monitor: No compatability problems detected : Passed

I will now start going through the other suggestions - will let you know how I go.

 

[ajleske]

Aaron,

You could try switching between DirectX and OpenGL and see if this makes any difference.

Okay, checked this - was running OpenGL so have now changed to DirectX.
I also went in and changed the scenery, texture and train details from high to normal (assumed this would make a difference??). So far with these changes there has been a noticeable improvement. I assume, at a later stage if I upgrade the video card I will get more improvement and will be able to go back to high detail. Will continue trialling over the next 24 hours with the changes made to see how it goes.
Thanks again for the help.
Aaron

 

[clam1952]

Aaron,

You could try switching between DirectX and OpenGL and see if this makes any difference.

Okay, checked this - was running OpenGL so have now changed to DirectX.
I also went in and changed the scenery, texture and train details from high to normal (assumed this would make a difference??). So far with these changes there has been a noticeable improvement. I assume, at a later stage if I upgrade the video card I will get more improvement and will be able to go back to high detail. Will continue trialling over the next 24 hours with the changes made to see how it goes.
Thanks again for the help.
Aaron

Adding daytime fog should also help a bit.

 

[ajleske]

Looking at yor computer specs I would think the HD3450 graphics card is the bottleneck. You don't say how much memory the graphics card has but it is probably only 256Mb.

I have no idea how to find this out, but using Google (again) I found a comparison table of the ATI Graphics Cards - it has 22 columns of information on each card. From the table I can see my card has a memory size of 256 / 512 MB. Sounds like you guys were right about it being the bottleneck!
So suggestions for a replacement card? 1GB 5800 series? Does this mean any model starting with 58XX that has at least 1Gb?
Sorry for the dumb questions!

I thought changing the settings made a difference, I was wrong! I just tried driving the Blue Comet On Avery - Drexel track and it was constantly bunny hopping (looked like a learner learning to drive a manual car)! Then it started freezing, then the whole program crashed. Can someone let me know if this sounds like a graphics card problem. If it is I will go get a new card tomorrow - I have checked my power supply unit and it is good for 550W so should be good for a new card.
Appreciate the help.

Just tried and again, and it is running pretty bad. Trying to change views is ridiculous - freezes really badly. At the point where it is unplayable - not sure why it worked better last night when nothing has changed...

 

[itareus]

Few more things to check/try:

Are you running fullscreen or windowed? - you should run fullscreen.

Even though your graphics card driver is fairly up to date it may be worth checking the ATI site for any updates.

Check that you are running Trainz at the native resolution for your monitor.

And along the same lines, are you running a big, e.g. 24", monitor at full HD? If so the card probably can't cope!

Be careful when selecting a new card, it can be a minefield and one through which I am not qualified to guide you! Hopefully someone will be along to help with that one.

 

[fran1]

Further advice

A 550w psu will struggle if you get a 500w card, the cpu will take 70-90w. Then you have to add whatever else draws power. So 700-800w is minimum.
Getting trainz to run at a decent fps can get expensive. If you can get near 30fps on a hard route the system will handle the rest with ease.

 

[ajleske]

Few more things to check/try:

Are you running fullscreen or windowed? - you should run fullscreen. It is running full screen

Even though your graphics card driver is fairly up to date it may be worth checking the ATI site for any updates. No new updates on ATI site

Check that you are running Trainz at the native resolution for your monitor. This was a mis-match, but fixed now, with no improvement.

And along the same lines, are you running a big, e.g. 24", monitor at full HD? If so the card probably can't cope! Screen size is 21", resolution 1600 x 900.
​

Be careful when selecting a new card, it can be a minefield and one through which I am not qualified to guide you! Hopefully someone will be along to help with that one. I have no idea either! Just done some research and discovered my PSU is a crap brand anyway (Besta PT550) - can not even find any specs for it on the net! Looks like if I want to have any success with TS2010 I need a new PSU and a new Graphics Card! $$$

 

[ajleske]

The options so far

This is what I am currently considering, for those with the knowledge on this stuff, your guidance and opinions are greatly appreciated

Corsair GS-600 Gaming Series 600W Power Supply - ATX/EPS - Silent 14cm Fan - 80 Plus - Black (CMPSU-600GS)

XFX Radeon HD 5670 - PCI-E 2.1 - 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 - 775 / 4000MHz - Dual-Link DVI, HDMI, Display Port - Fan - Rev 2.0 (HD-567X-ZNF3)

Let me know if this combination is any good.

Other options (though more expensive) are:

Corsair TX-750 750W ATX Power Supply, 140mm Fan, Dual PCI-E Graphics Card Connector, 8 SATA Connectors, Universal AC input 90~264V (CMPSU-750TX)

XFX Radeon HD 6850 Video Card - 1024MB 256-bit DDR5 RAM - 775 / 4000Mhz Clock - PCIe 2.1 - DVI, HDMI, DisplayPort - CrossFire Ready (HD-685X-ZNFC)
HIS Radeon HD 5770 Video Card - 1024MB DDR5 - 128 bit - Core Clock 850 MHz - Memory Clock 4.8Gbps - Dual DVI - HDMI - HDTV - HDCP - 1080p - Crossfire - PCI-E 2.1 - DirectX 11 (H577FK1GD)

Gigabyte Radeon HD 5770 Video Card, 1024MB 128-bit GDDR5 RAM, 850 / 4800MHz Clock, PCIe 2.0, Dual DVI, HDMI, DisplayPort (GV-R577UD-1GD)

I have no idea what any of this means, all I know is that all of the above are in stock and sound like they would do what I need... All I want is to try and make TS2010 run smoother!

 

[Bill69]

Few more things to check/try:

Are you running fullscreen or windowed? - you should run fullscreen. It is running full screen

Even though your graphics card driver is fairly up to date it may be worth checking the ATI site for any updates. No new updates on ATI site

Check that you are running Trainz at the native resolution for your monitor. This was a mis-match, but fixed now, with no improvement.

And along the same lines, are you running a big, e.g. 24", monitor at full HD? If so the card probably can't cope! Screen size is 21", resolution 1600 x 900.​

Be careful when selecting a new card, it can be a minefield and one through which I am not qualified to guide you! Hopefully someone will be along to help with that one. I have no idea either! Just done some research and discovered my PSU is a crap brand anyway (Besta PT550) - can not even find any specs for it on the net! Looks like if I want to have any success with TS2010 I need a new PSU and a new Graphics Card! $$$

If you are going to buy a new PSU try to get a modular one. That is one that does not use leads you don't need. This leaves a much tidyer case which in turn gives better cooling. I can recomend Corsair HX either 850w or more. They are a little more expensive than some but come with a five year manufacturers waranty. The Corsair will drive either an ATI 5800 series or 5900 series comfortabley. I use a Corsair HX1000w but I need it because I have four hard drives to power as well.

Cheers
Bill69

 

[fran1]

PSU at least 700w so go with Bill on a 800-850w for power to spare. I've just got a card with 1024mb gddr5 and 256 bits, runs fine. So any card near that will cope well.

 

[Wessex_Electric_Nutter]

I thought changing the settings made a difference, I was wrong! I just tried driving the Blue Comet On Avery - Drexel track and it was constantly bunny hopping (looked like a learner learning to drive a manual car)! Then it started freezing, then the whole program crashed. Can someone let me know if this sounds like a graphics card problem. If it is I will go get a new card tomorrow - I have checked my power supply unit and it is good for 550W so should be good for a new card.
Appreciate the help.

Just tried and again, and it is running pretty bad. Trying to change views is ridiculous - freezes really badly. At the point where it is unplayable - not sure why it worked better last night when nothing has changed...

I have to ask, firstly, does the fans become increadibly loud when you start playing the game? If so, then it could be that the CPU fan is not dissapating the heat quick enough, making the CPU having to slow down to stop itself from burning. I've had that happen on a stock AMD fan set before.

Secondly, how dusty is your machine? Is it soo dusty that the computer is overheating? Try running this (you don't have to install it) and see how hot your temps get: http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html
As long as the tempratures remain under 80C, I wouldn't worry too much.

 

[RRSignal]

Question, do you want and can you afford a new, fairly high-end GPU and PSU? I was recently in the position of upgrading my GPU and had to choose between a low-end card that would work with my 500W PSU and a relatively high-end, slightly more expensive card that would have needed a PSU upgrade. I ended up getting the lower-end one because laying out $80-$100 for a proper, quality PSU was just more than I wanted to spend; the $15 price difference in GPUs was also a consideration. Still, though, I now rarely dip below 60fps in Driver with my "low-end" GT240.

Of course, YMMV due to system differences, and all the folks who have replied know what they are talking about and are giving great advice. I just wanted to be sure you aren't getting carried away and point out that you don't necessarily need to do a major overhaul to get a performance improvement. How much improvement and future-proofing you get will, as always, depend on how much you are willing to spend.http://forums.auran.com/trainz/member.php?u=526868

 

[fran1]

With regard to RRsignals post above and my new graphics card, my psu has 700w total output, enough power yes. BUT the total amps on the 12 volt rail are 25 and the card recommends/wants 30 amps.
Just another pitfall for you to look out for.
With that I'm off to get a psu.

 

[ajleske]

I have to ask, firstly, does the fans become increadibly loud when you start playing the game? No - there is no noticeable fan noise when playing the game.

Secondly, how dusty is your machine? The machine is fairly free of dust - I ensure it is kept clean, and had it serviced only 2 weeks ago.

 

[ajleske]

Upgraded Graphics Card - Still Freezing???

Okay, I have now upgraded my graphics card (my local computer shop helped me choose one). The card is installed, and working, yet I am still having the game freeze during use. Does anyone know what could be causing this now?
The card I ended up getting is a Gigabyte GTS450, 1GB, GDDR5 - supposedly a decent card and quite capable of running TS2010 - yet something is still not right as it is freezing!!!! As always, any help is appreciated.
Cheers, Aaron

 

[backyard]

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