New PC - Mac or Other?

angelah

New member
I am having the 5 year usual problems with my Windows OS on this Desktop PC and as this is the umpteenth time this has happened and the only cure is a complete reinstall of everything each time (and that is getting boring...) I am wondering about getting an Apple Mac....

But the burning question is what Trainz orientated programs will actually work on it, things like Gmax and older Trainz versions, Gimp and which graphics programs would be viable?
I use Paint and Paint Shop Pro at the moment so obviously Paint won't be on it. Gimp might work as it is OpenSource, but what about a Screen-Grab program?

Has anybody done the switch and has information on this please?

Angela
 
Macs are typically pretty good in terms of maintenance effort, but you'll often lose out (compared to an equivalent-priced Windows computer) in terms of raw performance and exotic applications.

Things like The Gimp, Adobe Photoshop, and other similar programs are most definitely available. Blender is available, but you won't get GMax working and as far as I'm aware Max is not available either. It's not clear what you mean by a "Screen-Grab program"- if you just want to take a screenshot, then that's built-in functionality. If you want to record the screen to video or similar then you'll probably need a commercial utility.

You can of course use Boot Camp (allows you to select between Windows and Mac OS X at boot time) but this lands you back into most of the same problems you had with a pure Windows solution and introduces some new problems of its own. I find that most people who go this way end up basically using their Mac as a fancy Windows box- in which case you'd often be better off just buying a cheap Windows box.

You can use virtual machines (eg. Parallels, Virtual Box, or VMWare Fusion) to run Windows apps on the Mac, and it may be good enough for GMax or similar, but then you're going to have to go through a lot of mucking around that you'd probably rather avoid.

All of that said, I'm a long-time Mac user and don't find myself missing anything from Windows. While there are some things that we don't have, there are also a lot of things that are harder or impossible on Windows. About the best advice I can give you is that things will be different, and if you're not willing to go through that relearning experience and give it a serious chance, then you might not want to buy a Mac.

I hope that helps somewhat :)

chris
 
Been using Windows for decades and have only had to reinstall windows once, when I had a hard drive fail. Not willing to pay twice as much for something that doesn't do anything that much better than a windows machine. I would insist on getting a machine with Windows 7 installed, not Windows 8.
 
As Chris mentioned traditionally Mac is more expensive, in the security world they do not have a good reputation for Malware resistance, its normally considered to be about ten years behind Microsoft. Probably the sanest solution I can offer is to buy a UPS, we saw a 95% drop in software problems when we put them in. Typically the voltage dips slightly when a frideg etc starts up and its enough to stop the magnets flipping on the hard drive which means your hard drive gets corrupted as the writes don't work perfectly.

Other than that I like to run ecc memory helps a bit on reliability, and a quality power supply. I understand the SSDs are a little more reliable.

Software wise the biggest market place is still Windows so the latest version of any software is typically on Windows. For example the new telegraph poles and fencing spines are very good but only available for TS12 SP1 in Windows http://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...2-LOD-Splines-Fantastic&p=1164010#post1164010 there is a screenshot in the thread.

Cheerio John
 
If your going the windows route - dont bother with Win8. MS has a whole load of issues with it. Win7 has been the best recent version. I beta tested both and would not put Win 8 on my pc even if they gave it me with a bonus. But then there are those who will tell you that Win 8 is the best version.
 
Why did you have to reinstall? What was wrong?

I think she's still running 32 bit XP and with XP traditionally one would reinstall it every now and then to clean the file system up. Win 7 is much better but XP has a nice search content in files that is easier at first glance than win 7. I'd suggest 64 bit Win 7.

Cheerio John
 
As Chris mentioned traditionally Mac is more expensive, in the security world they do not have a good reputation for Malware resistance, its normally considered to be about ten years behind Microsoft. Probably the sanest solution I can offer is to buy a UPS, we saw a 95% drop in software problems when we put them in. Typically the voltage dips slightly when a frideg etc starts up and its enough to stop the magnets flipping on the hard drive which means your hard drive gets corrupted as the writes don't work perfectly.

Other than that I like to run ecc memory helps a bit on reliability, and a quality power supply. I understand the SSDs are a little more reliable.

Software wise the biggest market place is still Windows so the latest version of any software is typically on Windows. For example the new telegraph poles and fencing spines are very good but only available for TS12 SP1 in Windows http://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...2-LOD-Splines-Fantastic&p=1164010#post1164010 there is a screenshot in the thread.

Cheerio John

Hello John,
Most of what you wrote is Chinese to me, I am not the best at understanding the innards of a PC.... sorry.
I did post a few days ago and asked the group about a new PC, you may recall it, and there was a lot of helpful advice. Unfortunately and in my personal situation, getting near to any PC shop other than the large ones where there are big car parks, is almost impossible as I cannot walk very far. So going to a town centre is out of the question. That makes a specially built machine an impossibility... and worse the nice litte shop in this village closed several months ago.
So either it is a Zoostrom of some sort, a reinstall of Win XP on this PC or a Mac. Price isn't a problem as far as a Mac goes and my nephew told me they are the machines that do all the latest CGI work. But as I replied, what programs are they using? Gmax/Blender are free but the better progs cost half your left arm and a right leg and as I have stopped making for any current versions of Trainz I am not willing to pay the earth for 3DS Max or whatever it's called just to make for myself and a few friends, and they are getting less and less as N3V change what is allowed in a config, as I discovered when I used a single texture.
This PC has slowed right up and is struggling to run 2004 now, it did not do this when I first bought it a little under 5 years ago, it ran fine. So I suspect it's the Registry that has got corrupted over time, putting different programs on and taking them off again to 'clean up' tends to do that. I run Regclean now and then but that doesn't really solve it. And I tried CCleaner and that was a disaster, it knocked out a load of links from Desktop icons so progs wouldn't open and I couldn't get online to use either the Internet or my email, both neatly undone by CCleaner..!! I was NOT amused..!!
Now, and after fiddling about for ages, I have those working again but I lost the Home page on IE and have got stuck with the BBC one as that was all I could find.
Now it has begun shifting Desktop icons all over to the left side of the screen in a heap... sorted those out 3 times but it did it again the last time I opened and closed a program off the Desktop.
My main concern is how the PC has got so slow, so I need to do something fairly soon. A Zoostorm off Amazon might be my only option, one without an OS installed as I prefer XP to W7 (which I do have on my laptop). I know it isn't supported any more but I honestly cannot see all companies that have it dumping all the OS's for W7, as XP will still work fine for quite some time yet, it won't suddenly stop just because MS have pulled the plug.
I wouldn't touch Win 8 with two barge poles nailed end on end.

That's the problems in a nutshell...

If I go Mac then I won't be able to use Gmax (although 3D Smax might work, not sure about that).

I had thought about Linux... does that support our favourite programs?

Cheers to all who have posted, thank you,

Angela
 
I think she's still running 32 bit XP and with XP traditionally one would reinstall it every now and then to clean the file system up. Win 7 is much better but XP has a nice search content in files that is easier at first glance than win 7. I'd suggest 64 bit Win 7.

Cheerio John

This is correct. As stated in my last post I am using 32 Bit XP. I like it, am used to it and have had problems finding a search function in W7 when in Explore. It is a peice of cake in XP, so easy, why do MS make life harder with each version for no apparent gain?

Angela
 
Search in Win7 Explorer is in the box top right marked Search. ;)
If you can't get to grips with Win7 which in my opinion is probably MS's best attempt at an operating system, although XP was good, I'm afraid a Mac will be totally alien to you.
 
Angelah,

with regards to getting to a shop to actually buy, have you thought about http://www.ebuyer.com/. Order online and they deliver. They have ready-made computers (with or without OS) and all necessary components if you want to put your own together, including OS's in various flavours.

I've used them to buy most of my kit, and they are first class.

Best of luck,

Ken
 
Angela - this will probably not help (!) but as I used Macs for some years and was in fact involved (at the time - over 20 years ago) in choosing Macs as the best option then for all schools in a county, I must add my pennyworth.

I personally found Macs very easy to use (this was before the introduction of Windows on PCs and compared with my first computer, a Tandy TRS80, and later Amstrads) but eventually found the need to use a Windows database program in 1998 for the records of a club of which I had become secretary. The solution then was to buy a Windows 95 (yes!) simulation program for the Mac. I mention this in case such an option is still available.

Eeventually I changed to a PC, not because I had fallen out with a Mac, but because I wanted the much greater range of programs available - this was in 2006 - and of course I was then able to run TRS2004! I have never regretted the decision, and stayed with a PC when I needed a new one - hence TS2010.

Would a better option than forking out for a new computer be to call in a computer expert to sort out the problems? It would be much cheaper, I'm sure. You certainly need to be able to continue using GMax and 2004 - even if only for the benefit of all those who so much appreciate your creations!

Ray
 
As Chris mentioned traditionally Mac is more expensive, in the security world they do not have a good reputation for Malware resistance, its normally considered to be about ten years behind Microsoft. Probably the sanest solution I can offer is to buy a UPS, we saw a 95% drop in software problems when we put them in. Typically the voltage dips slightly when a frideg etc starts up and its enough to stop the magnets flipping on the hard drive which means your hard drive gets corrupted as the writes don't work perfectly.

Other than that I like to run ecc memory helps a bit on reliability, and a quality power supply. I understand the SSDs are a little more reliable.

Software wise the biggest market place is still Windows so the latest version of any software is typically on Windows. For example the new telegraph poles and fencing spines are very good but only available for TS12 SP1 in Windows http://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...2-LOD-Splines-Fantastic&p=1164010#post1164010 there is a screenshot in the thread.

Cheerio John

Many windows failures were the earlier version like XP, that would sometimes lock up and the power switch was used to shut the PC down. Good way to corrupt the OS. Have never had my Windows 7 PC lockup yet....
 
Hi all,
And thank you all for so many posts and advice.

Ken, I will certainly look at that site and see what's on offer and what they could do to help, it sounds good and using the Internet is the way I buy most of the things I am unable to get in Lidl's.

My nephew and his partner both have Macs and they want me to change. I have used thiers so I understand how the basics work but am not at all sure if they would encompass all the small programs and utilities I use on a Windows system.

As I said, Linux might work but again I am not sure if my other profs will, just as with a Mac, I might be stuck for Gmax (mainly, as I use Gimp and OpenOffice apps and they are OpenSource so should work). Don't know much about Linux so will go have a look now I am back home after galloping all over south Wales this afternoon.... I did use a car... haha.

Thanks to Ray for his advice as well and as ever, Clam who seems to know everything about everything because each time I ask for help he pops up, amazing..!

It looks like another PC.... so that's my mind made up. I know a lot of CGI is done on Macs but the programs would be way out of my league price-wise, i.e. very expensive. Gmax is fine for me and I am used to it.

So I am off chasing rainbows now... that site and see what Linux has to offer.

Blessings to you all,

Angela
 
Angela,

I've been in the technical world since the early 1980s and have supported and both Macs and PCs since the late 1980s. The overall cost of Apple computers, and not just the hardware, is much more due to the higher cost of the applications. This is especially true for people in the graphics and CGI community which I supported for many years.

As far as PCs go, there are all kinds of things you can do and all kinds of paths you can take. Like any purchase think about this carefully. Yes, I know you've been doing some homework and I saw your post. I was traveling at the time so I couldn't respond the way I wanted to. Typing on a tablet PC is very difficult! :)

To be honest I wouldn't visit one of those big box stores. They tend to have over zealous sales people that will try to sell the air out of a blown up balloon. In the end they'll sell you a machine with an unnecessary amount of extra baggage, and the machine will never be quite what you'll need. These pre-built machines also have limitations built in. Instead of using the better power supply, they'll put in the cheapest under powered unit they can find. With video cards, they'll go to the bottom end of a famous brand. This will sound great but the results will show when you go to use it. This list goes on with what they'll do. ;)

When I'm building, or recommending a machine for someone else, I ask these questions as I'm determining what is needed for the right job.

1) What do you really want your machine to do?
Is this going to be a wiz-bang gaming machine where you need the latest and greatest hardware with super cooling and high speed fans?

2) Is this a general-use computer?
One where you'd do office stuff and browse the internet.

3) One in between?

What you don't want to do is go about this based on price only. The office machine is the cheapest initially based on cost. You'll have built-in video, or low end video and graphics and a small power supply. This is enough to browse the web and do email. For most home users this is okay.

What you don't want to do, which we've seen here so many, many times, is purchasing the office/home quality machine and expect it to run graphics intensive programs. It's the same as purchasing a car with a 4-cylinder engine and expecting it to tow a big trailer behind it all the time. In the case of the PC, you'll actually spend more money reconfiguring the basic box as you replace the paltry under powered video card and power supply. You'll probably have to add more memory, and a bigger hard drive as well so in the end you would have actually spent less with better hardware to start off with.

In the end, this is based on how much you have to spend on the machine. Coming from the corporate world, I've always set a budget for projects such as this. Having an open purse is lovely, but as we know this isn't the real world. :) So set a budget and we can work with that. This also helps determine which path you want to go in so I can help you get the best value for your investment. The better the investment in the beginning means a longer return on your money spent. You don't want to have to upgrade in a couple of years. Instead you want to get at least 3 years out of the computer. In the old days it was at least 5 years, but things have changed quickly since the old days.

So having said this, PM me and I'll work with you on your purchase. I have done this with a quite few people over the years, and all of them have had successful outcomes. I have some other UK-based mail order suppliers that I think can build a machine you'd be interested in. This is in addition to Malc's source as well.

John
 
I'd start here for discussion then move up or down or a different supplier. ebuyer.com I've used them in the past. Note to John prices in the UK include a 20% VAT or sales tax besides being considerably higher to start with some things that are extremely cheap in the US are much more expensive in the UK so you have to take local pricing into account.

LINUX needs heavy technical support, if you're a computer science student at university you stand a chance otherwise I wouldn't consider it for a home machine. Trainz doesn't run on LINUX by the way for ordinary mortals. You can get reasonable support for Windows on the forum. Win 8 isn't ideal but at least the machines have the latest drivers and SP1 should make it a lot more like Win7. It does have better internals than Win 7 by the way and if I was buying a new machine that's the way I'd go.


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Scan.co.uk

Lovely Angela,

Scan.co.uk is the company that I've used to get the components to build my latest machine (see the spec in my tag!). This is now coming on for two years old, and so far nothing (except good ol' Trainz 2012) slows it down.

At the time, I paid £1300 in total for all the parts that I needed. This was the cutting edge (except for the graphics card) in the UK. Scan also make bespoke machines for customers, and also have ready made, off the shelf ones.

If you go for an Overclocked model, get one with watercooling that has a closed system. This means that you don't need to top up the coolant system (like a car radiator). Processor wise, go for an k version, intel i5 or i7. Don't bother with i3 intel.

Also, if possible, get a EVGA (company name) graphics card fitted. The one I use will do the job and is also overclockable if you need to do so (not tried that yet as no need to!) and are well respected in the P.C. building World.

As said by other posters on here, Ebuyer is another well respected company to go to. Now-a-days you can get a good specification machine for around £550 upwards.

Regards.
CaptEngland.
 
I have to admit that I build my own machines. At least then I know what has gone into them, but that is no help to you unless you have someone close by who can build it for you? If I lived closer Id offer to help but Im over the boarder in Worcestershire.

Linux is where Gimp and Blender started and then got ported to windows. Unfortunately although I am a fan of Linux it is not quite ready yet to run Trainz. Though its going to see some major steps forward over the next few months. So at the moment its at the starting blocks but yet to hear the pistol fire.

3ds max is available for the Mac but it does have a hefty price tag. With a current price of £2347.49 or there abouts its no cheap program.

Edit: There is a trial version of 3ds max available for the mac
 
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