New, expanded manual

[normhart]

Manual???

Expanded Manual???

Does the Amazon version of TS12 come with an expanded manual or just a standard manual? If so how many pages should the expanded manual have?

I ask because the manual that came with the Amazon version isn't very detailed. An exanded and more detailed manual with information on how to operate a train in cab mode would be helpful. The tutorials are pretty good but no substitute for the written word.

I have the Amazon version of TS12 (non steam) and it included a 244pg pdf manual. That aside, rather than sniveling about IP rights I suggest N3V respond proactively by making all versions of their manuals available online. It is the right thing to do from both a advertising POV and from a customer service POV.

 

[kd7eirjim]

Show me ONE other game/software product where finding documentation is as hard as it is with Trainz... PROVE that you own our product before you can see our full support site. Want to know if Trainz is for you? BUY it and if you don't like it, too darn bad - we got your money anyway! I think N3V are just totally clueless when it comes to this manual business. Imagine if Microsoft told people that they had to BUY Office before they could actually learn how it works. Imagine if Apple told people that they had to BUY an iPad/iPhone/iMac, etc before they could see how it works. Sorry N3V, but you stand ALONE in the game industry that your MANUAL is top-secret IP that must be protected at all costs. Certainly Apple, Microsoft, Oracle, Intuit, etc have all gone belly up because they didn't treat the documentation for their product like it was a top-secret document. Give me a break N3V and take a lesson from the truly BIG software companies and give people a link to your full support site and your full documentation. These other software developers got BIG because they knew how to treat their existing AND potential customers.

 

[shaneturner12]

I believe the main reason may be to get people to join the forums here and ask the questions. Anyway, the Helpdesk pages are available to anyone with a Planet Auran account.

Shane

 

[VinnyBarb]

I believe the main reason may be to get people to join the forums here and ask the questions. Anyway, the Helpdesk pages are available to anyone with a Planet Auran account.

Shane

That is bl**dy silly to say that. Why should the forum be cluttered up with heaps of questions that could easily be accessed/answered in a MANUAL? My personal beef is having a manual in PDF format which needs to be printed to use it while having Trainz on your PC. What happened to the good old days when everything, games, applications etc. had printed instructions and manuals included with the software? I would rather pay $5.00 extra if I get a printed manual with my software than flick back and forth on screen between Trainz and a PDF manual. That is also the reason I bought the TS12 Anniversary edition advertised with having a printed manual included.

My 2 cents worth.

VinnyBarb

 

[kd7eirjim]

The point I was trying to make is that keeping the manual top-secret and locked away is foolish. No other company that I am aware of does such a thing. People should be able to read the manual BEFORE they choose to purchase the product if they want to. Locking away the manual will not stop people from downloading pirated copies of Trainz, and frankly people that would upload a pirated copy could just as easily upload the pdf manual that comes with it.

 

[shaneturner12]

A lot of programs now have PDF manuals - it saves paper and reduces costs.

There are quite a few FAQ thread here on the forums.


Shane

 

[mezzoprezzo]

~snip~ My personal beef is having a manual in PDF format which needs to be printed to use it while having Trainz on your PC. ~snip~

You can open the .pdf Manual and simply refer to it on screen as required if that is your preference.

It’s then no real hardship to hit the Windows flag key at the bottom of the keyboard to access the manual when running any part of Trainz. You can toggle between the two as often, and as fast, as you want.

Even so, I prefer to have a printed version. It makes it easier to reference Trainz on screen and I can make margin notes, but I'm quite happy to print my own, selecting just the sections I require.

In my early days I’d read and learn one element prior to booting up the PC each day and then apply what I’d read.

It is still always to hand and often referenced.

 

[paulhobbs]

That is bl**dy silly to say that. Why should the forum be cluttered up with heaps of questions that could easily be accessed/answered in a MANUAL? My personal beef is having a manual in PDF format which needs to be printed to use it while having Trainz on your PC. What happened to the good old days when everything, games, applications etc. had printed instructions and manuals included with the software? I would rather pay $5.00 extra if I get a printed manual with my software than flick back and forth on screen between Trainz and a PDF manual. That is also the reason I bought the TS12 Anniversary edition advertised with having a printed manual included.

My 2 cents worth.

VinnyBarb

I think you are being bl**dy silly (again). Nobody reads the PDF manual - if they did (by your logic) they wouldn't come on here and ask any questions. But people do ask questions that could be answered by reading the manual...

Why should people who don't want a printed manual be forced to pay extra for post and packing for something they don't want? And why cut down even more trees to produce something that will end up getting thrown away?

Paul

 

[Robert2d6]

I don't know of any popular game that comes with a paper manual nowadays, programs either. They are all in PDF form. Games like FSX, have manuals that you can purchase. Want to learn a subject or item, I just print out the pages I need, so I can read them while working with the game. It's 2013 , not 1993.

 

[Werewolf13]

I think you are being bl**dy silly (again). Nobody reads the PDF manual - if they did (by your logic) they wouldn't come on here and ask any questions. But people do ask questions that could be answered by reading the manual...

That'd be true but the manual that came with my Amazon puchase (if it is the expanded version of the manual) leaves much to be desired. Very large text, a couple or 4 paragraphs per page. A lot of words that don't do a very good job of explaining anything and doesn't even begin to explain a lot that should be as I've discovered over the last week which is one of the Reasons I'm asking so many questions on the forums. (as to what's left out - not being a train afficianado how can I know - not knowing what you don't know is really the issue when it comes to the current manual).

Why should people who don't want a printed manual be forced to pay extra for post and packing for something they don't want? And why cut down even more trees to produce something that will end up getting thrown away?

Paul

The standard reason for not printing a manual given by software companies these days is cost savings. Riiiiiight.

Gaming software has been selling for betwen $29.95 and $59.95 since I 1st started buying gaming software in 1979 for my old TRS-80. Back then some could be had for $29 some for $39 end even some for $49. By the early 90's it was up to $59 for some. It's now 2012. No one is printing a manual anymore. But the prices are still up there.

Cost savings? Yes. Which leads to higher profits. Which I don't have a problem with at all what with being a hard core capitalist and all. What I do have a problem with is the we're doing it to save costs so we can serve you the buying customer better.

 

[ZecMurphy]

Good Morning All
I do not have access to the Amazon release of Trainz, however it should still include the expanded manual that is included in the 'international' edition of Trainz. You can access this by clicking on the 'manual' icon on the launcher screen. The expanded manual is 241 pages (inc front cover), however it will not cover every little aspect of Trainz.

Due to the complexity of Trainz, and the different in physics, or function of objects, we simply cannot cover the entire functionality of Trainz in the manual. We cover only the basic functions in the 'standard' manual (about 60 pages from memory), and then cover the majority of the common functions in the expanded manual, including 6 pages describing CAB mode. These will only explain the controls, and the basic theories of driving. It will not tell you exactly how to drive a locomotive through session, as this will vary (this is a simulator, and requires some practice to get the hang of CAB driving).

I will, however, speak to the team to see if we can put a copy of the expanded manual online.

As to printing the manual, printing is becoming more expensive, and including a full printed manual requires larger packaging to handle it. No matter what, it will increase the cost, and quite substantially... The TRS2006 'limited edition' that I have here includes the expanded manual for this edition. The manual is as thick as a standard DVD case, being 1.5cm thick (approx 5/8inch). To include such a manual would require either a custom produced case (much more expensive than using standard, widely available, cases) or extra packaging (again, more expensive).

As to 'locking away' information... We have a copy of the standard TS12 manual available for download, albait on the Trainz iPad page (I will, however, drop a link in the helpdesk knowledgebase/downloads area to this). As above, I'll also speak to the team to see if we can put the expanded manual online as well. All other Trainz documentation that is publicly available is on the TrainzDev, which does not require a login.

The helpdesk does require a login, however this is to make it easier for both sides, particularly for the person contacting us. Namely, they can then login and check the status of their ticket. It also means that replies go to one ticket, making it far quicker for us to handle tickets (one area that causes delays for us is when we need to read through 3 or 4 separate tickets, possibly under different accounts, to get all of the information!).

Note, the forums (some sections only) are the only part of our website that requires a serial number to actually post, or access some of the sections. Of course, the online functions within Trainz itself (DLS, iTrainz/multiplayer, chat) do require a serial number, but these aren't information/support functions...

Regards

 

[VinnyBarb]

I think you are being bl**dy silly (again). Nobody reads the PDF manual - if they did (by your logic) they wouldn't come on here and ask any questions. But people do ask questions that could be answered by reading the manual...

Why should people who don't want a printed manual be forced to pay extra for post and packing for something they don't want? And why cut down even more trees to produce something that will end up getting thrown away?

Paul

Who is getting bl**dy silly here? Of course by reading ANY manual will explain some/most/any features one would like to know, hence it would ease the postings here for help or explanation of some of these features.

What do you think will happen if I (and others) print out any PDF manual, would I be saving paper or ink? All a PDF printout does is placing the cost savings publishers have by including a PDF manual back on to the consumer and burden him/her with the costs of printing it. Trainz might be one of the rare games where one can toggle between game and PDF manual. Try some of the games like Dragon Age, Morrowind, Skyrim (if memory serves me right), some of these crash once toggling some of these games to DeskTop or wherever one has a PDF manual/instructions to read up on, on one's PC.

I wrote further above that I would not mind paying extra for a printed manual, I guess as an extra from the publisher, which I haven't exactly made somewhat clear. But that still stands and if you do not like a printed manual in preference to a PDF, well, that is YOUR choice. It certainly is NOT mine.

Cheers

VinnyBarb

 

[chuffbuff]

Who is getting bl**dy silly here?

Me!

I'd pay tripple for a (leather back) hard copy with TS12 book mark for good measure + 300 more pages covering every inch of an updated CCG.

Hows that for stupid!

Cheers

Marty

 

[vernongt]

Hello Chris,
I have the "Railroad Simulator powered by TRAINZ 12" which I purchased from Just Trains [via Amazon.com], and the 242 page manual appears to be a B&W photocopy with Just Trains blue cover on it.
Is this [Just Trains] version's Manual [which they call "Driver's Guide"] the same as I would get [I mean almost identical] if I purchased the $49.90 version from SimulatorCentral???
If the 'hardcopy' manual is not B&W [from SimCentral] then I'd be tempted to buy that 10th Anniversary version in order to get a REAL Manual...
Vernon.

 

[ZecMurphy]

Good Morning All
For those who have said they would pay extra for the printed expanded manual, I should point out that the Trainz 10th Anniversary Edition does include a full, colour, printed manual. However, as per my previous reply, printing this is not cheap, nor will it fit into a standard DVD edition's packaging. It is for this reason that we instead offer the PDF manual, which you can print the desired pages from (and could print, say, 4 of the manual's pages to an A4 page, since the manual is approximatley A5 size). We do not recommend printing the entire manual, particularly if you are an experienced Trainz user, as much of it will cover areas that you will have experience with.

In regards to the JustTrains edition, if they are including a printed version of the expanded manual, then this is their choice. However, I do not currently have access to the JustTrains edition, so cannot say for certain if it is the same as our expanded manual.

Regards

 

[vernongt]

Thanks Zec,
That is exactly what I have gone and done. I, like Marty [above] am prepared to pay some extra for a COLOUR MANUAL [240 pages].
It's worth it to me and I can afford to do it.

I've got nothing to complain about now!!!

Cheers,
Vernon

 

[shaneturner12]

Vernon, can you please edit your post ASAP and remove the semi-offensive word - there are minors on these forums.

Shane

EDIT: Thank you AJ for making that change.

 

[vernongt]

Forgive me Shane,
I really didn't mean to be offensive.
Thanks AJ for correcting my post for me.
I'll be sure to watch my language in future.

Vernon.

 

[shaneturner12]

The reason I mentioned it is because I know young kids visit these forums. Its been sorted now so no worries.

Shane

 

[KenGreen]

Three years ago I decided to buy an iPad one of the main reasons was to store all those instruction manuals that take up so much space and are a nuisance to look through. It is very useful being able to read the iPad whilst using the PC.

Ken