New dependency-tracking system, please!

ckthomson

New member
It would be nice to see a new method of dealing with dependencies, especially since some assetts are no longer available via the DLS, and others on the DLS wind up requiring content from a third-party site.


A couple of ideas:

  1. Turn the CDP format into a multi-asset container, similar to the archive format already available.
  2. Create a content removal script for the DLS server, whereby if one assett goes missing/gets withdrawn from the server-side database, anything that depends on it also gets withdrawn. It would only be fair to make this type of system email content creators and notify them of why their content was pulled.
  3. Standardize the distribution methods used! I know this subject has probably been ridden like a pygmy pony across the plains of Montana, so I'll leave this one where it is. DLS or External websites, but not both!
Just my $0.50 (cdn).

Cheers,
Craig
 
*.cdps can already contain multiple assets and and withdrawing a route because a telegraph pole is missing is also a pretty daft idea.

Paul
 
Note to mods : please move this thread to the "suggestions" forum where it belongs!

*.cdps can already contain multiple assets and and withdrawing a route because a telegraph pole is missing is also a pretty daft idea.

Paul
  • if the CDP format can include multiple assetts, then why isn't this method of packaging used more often to produce "unbreakable" content?
  • It also seems daft that said telephone pole would be missing from the DLS when there's still an item that depends on it. Doesn't that route have to work w/o a Black Screen Of Death before it gets onto the DLS in the first place? Why shouldn't content be held to the same standards *after* it's been validated as it is before it's validated?
Cheers,
Craig.
 
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Note to mods : please move this thread to the "suggestions" forum where it belongs!
  • if the CDP format can include multiple assetts, then why isn't this method of packaging used more often to produce "unbreakable" content?
  • It also seems daft that said telephone pole would be missing from the DLS when there's still an item that depends on it. Doesn't that route have to work w/o a Black Screen Of Death before it gets onto the DLS in the first place? Why shouldn't content be held to the same standards *after* it's been validated as it is before it's validated?
Cheers,
Craig.

Content does not have to have all its dependencies available on the DLS to be accepted. Some routes contain payware, when you create a route you use anything available on your machine. There doesn't seem to be a mode that says only show items available on the DLS. When a dependency is not available on the DLS an email is sent to the creator requesting a copy is made available on the DLS. Sometimes this copy is not directly visible on the DLS but cmp will be able to download it.

When I create I often use other people's bogeys etc. I am unable to upload these as I haven't created them so a single .cdp file containing both items doesn't work. When I'm sending a batch of vans or wagons out for testing I'll batch them together in a single .cdp helps keep track of them.

Does that give you a better idea of how the system works?

Cheerio John
 
Personally i think the system is fine. It takes a little searching to find third party content. I have found all but 2-3 items and have created a file in bookmarks for sites by KUID when I find a creators site. If I see a thread on a item that is being searched for I will bookmark that link or flag an e-mail address of the creator so that should the need arise for that asset I will have a way to get it.
The fact is there will never be 1 sight with all content, any hope of that is very very very misguided. Also to limit DLS content to non-third party content is ridiculous. Searching for 3rd party content is easy, if you do not find it, ask, someone can usually help you.
 
Content does not have to have all its dependencies available on the DLS to be accepted. Some routes contain payware, when you create a route you use anything available on your machine. There doesn't seem to be a mode that says only show items available on the DLS. When a dependency is not available on the DLS an email is sent to the creator requesting a copy is made available on the DLS. Sometimes this copy is not directly visible on the DLS but cmp will be able to download it.

When I create I often use other people's bogeys etc. I am unable to upload these as I haven't created them so a single .cdp file containing both items doesn't work. When I'm sending a batch of vans or wagons out for testing I'll batch them together in a single .cdp helps keep track of them.

Does that give you a better idea of how the system works?

Cheerio John

In regards to your first point, I had no idea that the creator of an asset with a missing dependency recieved an email requesting that they make it available - it wasn't really covered in the manual or in any FAQs I could find. If it's not related to preventing broken assets from being uploaded I can only assume that it's so that they can screen submissions in order to keep their "G" rating.

I am aware that sometimes a search for "itemname-x" or a KUID search may not always turn up a result, as I am also aware that some dependencies, whilst visible, just won't download.

Honestly, it hasn't been a nice night at work, so I'm a bit frazzled to be coming up with specific examples, but rest assured that when I do find some I'll be more than happy to post 'em.

Cheers,

Craig.
 
Personally i think the system is fine. It takes a little searching to find third party content. I have found all but 2-3 items and have created a file in bookmarks for sites by KUID when I find a creators site. If I see a thread on a item that is being searched for I will bookmark that link or flag an e-mail address of the creator so that should the need arise for that asset I will have a way to get it.
The fact is there will never be 1 sight with all content, any hope of that is very very very misguided. Also to limit DLS content to non-third party content is ridiculous. Searching for 3rd party content is easy, if you do not find it, ask, someone can usually help you.

I have found all of 1/2 dozen of the assetts I'm missing, and only 2 of those through searching Google. I still have probably 15 or 20 more to go, as well as a ton of error repairs/missing texture replacement to do before some assets will even load right.

Google searches for kuid#s usually show nothing. If the main piece of content has been well documented, they might have said whose bogies they used, or what site to find the missing texture/part/etc in.

I'd also like to note that this suggestion really should have covered not only missing content, but broken content (from the DLS) as well. Minor tagging errors cause the same [!], and therefore the same Black Screen Of Death, as an asset that is uploaded missing a texture or a mesh.

"fixing" cmp so that it can do searches on the TRS2004 DLS might help a tad with the missing dependencies - I have fixed literally dozens of asset problems doing manual searches of DLS2k4, but this (like googling KUIDs) can be tedious and not always very productive.

Cheers,
Craig.
 
A system where the DS would display confirmation that ALL assets used within a route ARE on the DS has been suggested many times.
This way, routes that use content not on the DS would still be available on the DS, but people would know in advance whether it was worth the effort of downloading.

I even created a simple example of the sort of graphic they could use.
Hang on, it might still be on my FTP space........Yep, and according the FTP date, I uploaded it on the 11th July 2006, which is when I must have suggested it last (but it wasn't the first time).
Here it is:

dls.jpg


I doubt it will ever happen though.
Still, these days a lot of route authors try to use mainly DS stuff, and a lot of them list the locations of extra assets you need, so it's not as bad as it used to be.

Smiley.
 
In regards to your first point, I had no idea that the creator of an asset with a missing dependency recieved an email requesting that they make it available - ......

Cheers,

Craig.
Even though it sounds that way when you read the post, the creator doesn't automatically recieve an email....I'm sure John meant that when a dependency is missing, the person downloading the item with the missing dependency will usually send an email to the creator to find where the missing dependency can be found.....:cool:
 
Even though it sounds that way when you read the post, the creator doesn't automatically recieve an email....I'm sure John meant that when a dependency is missing, the person downloading the item with the missing dependency will usually send an email to the creator to find where the missing dependency can be found.....:cool:

No the system is that if a route or something includes an asset that is not on the DLS, Auran actually automatically send an email to the last known address of the creator requesting that the asset be uploaded to the DLS so that people downloading the route will have it available on the DLS. There rae creators that have their own web sites and do not have their content visible on the DLS but it is available for dependency pick up.

Broken content is a problem, but the current system whereby the download count is returned to zero for o new version does not encouage creators to correct items, especially ones that where created before the current error checking was put in place. I think one creator commented he did some corrections and put up new versions and lost 1,000,000 downloads on his download counts.

Also not all creators are currently active in Trainz.

Cheerio John
 
No the system is that if a route or something includes an asset that is not on the DLS, Auran actually automatically send an email to the last known address of the creator requesting that the asset be uploaded to the DLS so that people downloading the route will have it available on the DLS. There rae creators that have their own web sites and do not have their content visible on the DLS but it is available for dependency pick up.

Broken content is a problem, but the current system whereby the download count is returned to zero for o new version does not encouage creators to correct items, especially ones that where created before the current error checking was put in place. I think one creator commented he did some corrections and put up new versions and lost 1,000,000 downloads on his download counts.

Also not all creators are currently active in Trainz.

Cheerio John

As I haven't made any content, I didn't know that creators can see how many times something's been downloaded. If the information is available in a column in CMP, then I must have that column hidden (is that even possible?).

I guess maybe I should head off and read the content creation guide. I was planning on skipping until I actually 'get' how to make a nice route to upload, but I'm starting to think that perhapse it should be flagged as essential reading.

Just so everyone knows, it's not routes I'm having problems with - I'm too busy trying to figure out how to make my own ;) - a lot of it is indeed locos, and my suggestion was inspired by the post re: 0-6-0 locos, because I happened to be sitting on a pile of broken ones myself. Obviously I would have tossed out some of my other bizarre ideas, like a bit-torren type content sharing scheme, but the system requirements of a protocol like that prohibit the suggestion in it's own right, plus it assumes that we all run Trainz 24-7 (which I doubt).

I think the software is great, but since all software designers seem to ask for suggestions these days, I thought I'd make one.... pity it ended up in surveyor help by accident.

Cheers,
Craig.
 
I have found all of 1/2 dozen of the assetts I'm missing, and only 2 of those through searching Google. I still have probably 15 or 20 more to go, as well as a ton of error repairs/missing texture replacement to do before some assets will even load right.

Google searches for kuid#s usually show nothing. If the main piece of content has been well documented, they might have said whose bogies they used, or what site to find the missing texture/part/etc in.

I'd also like to note that this suggestion really should have covered not only missing content, but broken content (from the DLS) as well. Minor tagging errors cause the same [!], and therefore the same Black Screen Of Death, as an asset that is uploaded missing a texture or a mesh.

"fixing" cmp so that it can do searches on the TRS2004 DLS might help a tad with the missing dependencies - I have fixed literally dozens of asset problems doing manual searches of DLS2k4, but this (like googling KUIDs) can be tedious and not always very productive.

Cheers,
Craig.

Yes, Google searches take a little playing with. Sometimes using colons works, sometimes no colons works, sometimes putting KUID in works sometimes not. Mostly screen name and Creator number works for me.
As for correcting errors, Yicks- It took me about two and a half weeks to initially correct all assets, Now I just correct as I go and it takes virtually no time. Also I have noticed that now very few assets are faulty now. Occasionally I will have an old asset that gets loaded as a dependancy but most newer creations are good to go.
TARL is great for learning how to fix errors also.
Cheers
Craig (great name eh):)
 
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