Need help with understanding signalling.

The diagram will totally depend on what you want to do. That diagram is useless, I've found out, because there is no standard rule or signaling system in Trainz.
I was trying to share a system with everybody but discovered my futile error.
Just plop 'stop' lights down when you don't want two trains in the same area.
That's the simplicity in it all.
You apparaently missed the whole gist in all this, there, Dino. After all, you're the one that made my light shine.

:)
 
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And one other basic principle to remember: never place a signal in a place where you don't want a train to stop! Because otherwise sooner or later one will, causing a stalemate.

--Lamont
 
While your discovery is fascinating, it brings to surface a problem many 'trainzers' will not like. (probably the main reason they are having a problem with it) I.E;
Signals are 'eye candy'... Well to a hobbyist, prototype lover/maker/designer, eye candy is not what they are after. Auran placed signals into their product, thus they should behave as such. NOT the points/junctions.
When I design a layout, I would like for my testers to be able to 'drive' the train according to the signaling system they have in front of them, driving down the line.

I realize you've discovered they way the system works and I do understand that system/methodology. But, I hope you'll agree, it's not a realistic way to signal a railroad empire. I like seeing the signals and I believe others do also.
 
.......... there is no standard rule or signaling system in Trainz.......I was trying to share a system with everybody but discovered my futile error.....You apparaently missed the whole gist in all this, there, Dino.
:)
I'm sorry, Steamdrivre, I still don't get it either. Truth is, that in my route, which has a variety of track layouts, the signals work quite well, but only from an eye-candy point of view, (except as has been said when two tracks converge into one, and there, the signals seem to do their job quite well.)
It would be impossible to implement a realistic signalling system in Trainz without introducing a whole new concept, that is, a signalman, who controls the signals, as opposed to what happens now, which is that the trains control the signals. It will be very interesting to see what the TC3 system is all about.
Mick Berg.
 
Mick,
Most anything I say will be a repeat of what I've already said but, I'll try again.
Here goes. The 'stop' lights that Auran has allowed us to plop on the roads, which have rails, will stop a train from entering a particular section of track if another train is occupying that section.
You can not create any kind of signaling system for a layout because there isn't one.
All you can do is control one section of track at a time with a 'stop' light. That's it in a nut shell.
Two people with the same route will most likely plop lights in two different manners because they will most likely run that route two different ways.
The route and how you run it will dictate where to place the lights to control one section of track at a time.
You cannot control three sections of track with a signaling system, as would be done in the real world, you can only control one section of it three times, one section at a time.
Now, you can call the sections of track 'blocks' if you want too. You can call the lights 'signals' if you want too. When your done with your route, you can say you signaled it but, these terms are misleading and I believe the cause of all the confusion because they are not what is being done in Trainz in comparison to the real world.
We are only allowed to control one section of track at a time with 'stop' lights.

And, this is the quote that hit me up the side of the head like a ton of bricks;

I'm no signaling guru, but I read somewhere that in Trainz, "blocks" are defined as stretches of track in between sets of switches/points rather than track between signals (ie. it's not the same as in the real world).

- Dean

Thanks, Dino.

And one other basic principle to remember: never place a signal in a place where you don't want a train to stop! Because otherwise sooner or later one will, causing a stalemate.

--Lamont
Very good. Thanks, Lamont

Does that help any???

:)
Rick
 
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Hi, guys!

I'm just getting back into Trainz after my computer meltdown last month which wiped out ALL my Trainz stuff (DLS downloaded stuff, my trolley routes, my custom consists, etc.) so I was so pissed off. Now that I've had time to wind down and not so mad, I'm ready to give Trainz another shot.

I'm going to try rebuilding a section of my trolley route this weekend and then try your signalling ideas and then let you know which ones work.

Thanks for all your ideas! Keep them coming!
 
Again, many thanks for the insight into Auran "signalling".

Has anyone tried the method I (poorly?) outlined in my first post:
try the rule ...Dynamic signalling.

I reiterate, am not in UK and do not have TRS with me, so do a search for signalling dynamic or something along those lines. Try the rule out and let us know how you got on.

Reminder - I use this rule for allowing single lane operation in both directions.
 
Mick,
Most anything I say will be a repeat of what I've already said but, I'll try again.
:)
Rick
Thanks, Steamdrivre, but I didn't ask for another attempt to explain it. As I said, I'm going to wait for TC3. Regarding that, here's a question, will it be possible to mix new TC3 type signls with pre-TC3 ones? Will they all work together, albeit with limitations for the older ones?
Thanks,
Mick Berg.
 
This is an interesting thread if anything, as I am learning a few things through it that I didn't know before. So thanks to all that are jumping in and throwing in their 2 pennies...

It takes some seconds for train brakes to apply by progressing back through the consist, but still trains must be able to stop within the signal viewing distance setup for AI drivers.

That reminded me of a question I had a long time ago, and kinda forgot about it. Do AI "see" the signal in the distance the same way we do? What I mean is, if I put a signal (or light) on a straight section of track, it's obviously easier for us human to see it from a fair distance. If I put that light somewhere in a long turn, with trees on each side of the track, we can only see it at the last second. Do AI have the same problem?


Most rail companies have their rule books available on the net for download.

I found those by surfing wikipedia, eventually made it to the page for the "Canadian Rail Operating Rules" page, and found the book in the external links at the bottom. Thanks for the great idea!

realm174
 
Correct me if I'm wrong here but I think the answer to your seeing-the-signal as we do is, no. I believe it was said in an earlier post that they're activated within 150 meters range.

:)
 
Correct me if I'm wrong here but I think the answer to your seeing-the-signal as we do is, no. I believe it was said in an earlier post that they're activated within 150 meters range.

:)


Surely the AI sees the next signal from miles away. Think of all the people who have had half-speed consists. Once you put one signal down you must put two more before it to avoid the half-speed problem. Don't you get that problem, steamdrivre, in your minimalist eyecandy method?
 
It appears that you also need speed boards or speed thingys/limits to control the speed of the AI.
I'm using invisible speed thingys on my route. The two go hand in hand.
You don't want a train barreling down on an 'intersection' at 60 mph when they will most likely have to stop at a light. Ya really got to control their speed logically, too.

These things;

speedmx5.jpg


:)
 
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ABS vs CTC

The signaling system in Trainz is based on an ABS (Absolute Block Signals)system. Signals in this type of system can only see what the next signal is displaying and if there any trains in the next block. What most Trainzers are trying to do (including me) is use it as a CTC system (Central Train Control).:confused:

It doesn't help that the AI's are responsible for changing the setting of switches. On USA railroads the only times that the driver control switches is either in a yard or after they recieve instructions from a dispatcher. I have started to use the "Auto Pilot" command to my drivers and the session rule "Switch Junctions" at the beginning.
 
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