Need help with understanding signalling.

[Veristek]

Hey all.

In my alpha testing of my route, I've been struggling to figure out the signalling system. I know about signalling for switches, as I browsed a tutorial about that. However, the tutorials don't cover signalling for multiple trains occupying the same track.

I'm trying to have like 4 or 5 trolleys operate in one direction (outbound to the suburbs), and another 4 - 5 trolleys operate in the opposite direction on the adjacent track. As it stands, all the signals turn red if just one trolley is occupying the entire track, therefore making automated AI operation of the trolleys impossible.

Here's what I want to do...

Create a signal system in which signal blocks are like 100 meters apart. If a trolley is occupying a 100 meter "zone", the signal after the zone is green, but the signal before the zone is red. Then the signal just before the red signalled zone is yellow. Therefore making a "cruise, slow, stop, wait for trolley ahead of me to move on, then proceed further down the track" system.

Switches are only located at the endpoints of my route for the trolley to loop around to the other track, and also to create branch lines. There's no switches at all in the middle of the route, so no trolleys can jump over to the other track unexpectedly, like some AI's are prone to doing. Thus, switches are NOT the primary focus of my signalling stuff.

Any ideas or suggestions for this? Is there a script or particular signal I need to download? I need a signal preferably similiar to a traffic light- three lights in a signal box, vertical. Also, the signal needs to be like 4 - 5 feet off the ground, not 10 feet or so like most signals.

 

[steamdrivre]

Good luck. I started the same thread months ago and there is no rhyme nor reason for any signaling in Trainz.

Type signal in the search engine and start studying... You'll find 100dreds.

 

[ess1]

Veristek,

does this help: http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?p=191228#post191228

 

[Veristek]

I looked through the thread. However, it was about a two track into single track then back into two track transitions.

Here's a few basic diagrams of my route.

The switchboxes are displayed as well. The green box = green signal, "Trolley 1 / 3, go ahead at speed". The red box says "Trolley 2 / 4 stay and wait here until Trolley 1 / 3 goes into the next signal block". The yellow box says "Trolley 2 / 4, slow down for stop at red box".

I'm *not* trying to have two lines merge into a single line, diverge one line into two lines, or switch trains from one track to the other. Just keep multiple trolleys running on a single track all the way from the end of the route (where the loop is) to the other end (with another loop). That way, trolleys can run constantly over a double track without need of switching, reversing, and such.

 

[steamdrivre]

Oh, one thing for sure, a loop throws all signals off. Good luck.

Here's my thread. It's dated September last year and I still don't have a solution for the signals,
http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=16574&highlight=signaling

Here's a tutorial,
http://trains.0catch.com/tutorial.html

This is one of my post answers and should help, LOL.

LOLOLOL I'm not laughing at anyone here, please don't take this the wrong way but, only at the situation at hand.
Do you realize how many answers I have received to what should have been a simple solution to a simple problem? I don't understand this at all... There should have been one answer with all of the rest of you agreeing to it. I'm more confused then ever, now. Which 'rule' should I apply in the future? Which one of you have given me the correct answer to my problem that I may apply to any track work I may construct in the future?
I've been told to lay track in all the same direction but fran1 says to change that.
John, from Razorback, has pointed me toward some reading material I believe I may have to read.

More confused then ever , now...

Thanks, guys

In other words, I'm afraid you won't find a solution.

 

[Mick_Berg]

I think the reason that you get so many different answers is that the signalling system is very haphazard, and people find their own ways of fixing particular situations. Hopefully the new system in TC3 will be predictable and reliable.
Mick Berg.

 

[Veristek]

I read the signalling tutorial, and it mentions setting up signals for switches and such.

I don't think my loop will have problems, since it *does* have a switch. One track becomes the loop, and the other track continues straight on. Same for the adjacent track. That straight-on track goes to a trolley storage yard, whereas the "branching" track loops over to the opposite track.

I'm still struggling with the signalling for the stretches of straight track. The tutorial also mentions signalling blocks, but not quite clear on that. The AI can't jump tracks between train stations or the loop itself because there's *no* switches between the double tracks except at the train yard.

 

[sw1500]

All signals red?

When you place the one trolley on the tracks, all signals should be red except the two in front of the trolley. In Trainz signals stay red until there is an approaching train. For example: R___R___R___Y___G__trolley___R___R___etc.

 

[BLACKWATCH]

The tutorial also mentions signalling blocks, but not quite clear on that.

Block System.

 

[Veristek]

Gotcha. Do I try using Right-hand or Left-hand signalling for the route, considering that there's no interlockings or switches between the two tracks except at the endpoints of the route?

 

[paperpusher]

I am also looking for a similar fix for a trolley or bus system, I tried the invisible signals past each stop but the hook up the rolling stock occurred anyway, I posted a message with basically same request for help.

 

[frosty90]

to set up signalling on a straigt strech of track is easy,

---[t1]---S1--------S2---------S3--------S4----------S5


just put signals at what ever spacig you need along the track (use some thing like 'UK 3 aspect' or 'signal 004' or 'signal 2 004' as these are '3 aspect' block signals as such.) in my ddgy little diagram above S1, S2 etc are the signals and [t1] is a train (heading to the right). as t1 approaches S1, both S1 and S2 will go green (and S3 yellow) to let the train through, and as it passes each signal they will return to red and the 2 blocks of 'green' signals will 'move foward' as well so that (as long as the line is clear) the train will always have green signals ahead.

now say the train has moved to the right past a couple of signals and another is coming up behind it:

---[t2]---S1--------S2----[t1]----S3--------S4----------S5

now the signal s1 will show yellow for t2 because s2 shows red because t1 is occuping the track between s2 and s3.

Basically all the signals will show red unless there is a train approaching, and when a train approaches then they will clear to either green or yellow, depending on whether the next signal is clear (yellow or green) or not. basically just place the signals along the tracks in surveyor at 100m intevals (make sure they are all facing the correct direction!) and put a couple or trains down and move them around in surveyor and see what happens.
note: if the track ends after a signal then that signal will always show red, and so the signal before it wil only ever clear to yellow.

 

[frosty90]

i just read your original post propery lol! if you want a short signal rather than a tall one try "misc dwarf LH"

 

[Dinorius_Redundicus]

I'm no signaling guru, but I read somewhere that in Trainz, "blocks" are defined as stretches of track in between sets of switches/points rather than track between signals (ie. it's not the same as in the real world).

If that concept is true, your stretch of track with many signals will appear to Trainz AI as just one block instead of many blocks, so it would be little wonder that it is not behaving as you expect.

Consequently, I've seen that some people insert junctions (with invisible levers and one branch leading off to a short stub of invisible track) to trick Trainz into reading the intended number of blocks. I guess you would have visible signals on your visible track where the junctions are, so they look like and behave like real world signal blocks.

For my own peace of mind, I'd like to know (a) if that concept is right and (b) if it helps you make your layout work.

If all this is complete BS, then I hope someone will correct me quickly.

- Dean

 

[steamdrivre]

I have just recently learned that changing the priority level of you engines makes a big difference. I have actually gotten my trains to work relatively well by changing their priority.


Rick

 

[laldfordo]

I'm no signaling guru, but I read somewhere that in Trainz, "blocks" are defined as stretches of track in between sets of switches/points rather than track between signals (ie. it's not the same as in the real world).

For my own peace of mind, I'd like to know (a) if that concept is right and (b) if it helps you make your layout work.


- Dean

I think you can define blocks as between signals, as Frosty90 does in her/his reply. But the turnouts do have some sort of overriding function if they have, as they should, a signal protecting the opposite direction of travel. This feature sometimes, but not with all consists, holds following trains at a red until the consist in front has cleared the "opposite direction" signal at the next turnout, even if that is miles down the track.

I have found the only reliable solution is to take away the "opposite direction" signal. But, of course, you can't do that if you have a loop, as in this query, or you want two-way working. Somebody, somewhere, must know the rules that are programmed in (TRS04). I am going only from reading the manual, the forum and experimenting.

 

[laldfordo]

Loops

Correction to my previous post.

The "loops" in the original question are not loops in the sense of coming round and back to the track the loop started from. which does complicate signalling.
They just complete an oval of track with unidirectional running (plus four branches to yards). So there should be no signalling problems as long as no signals are placed anywhere for trolleys coming in the opposite direction.

 

[Mick_Berg]

I have just recently learned that changing the priority level of you engines makes a big difference. I have actually gotten my trains to work relatively well by changing their priority.


Rick

Could you elaborate on this at all please??
Thanks,
Mick Berg.

 

[steamdrivre]

I believe I've just discovered a solution to the whole thing. Don't have time right now but will post pics and everything within 24 hours...

Yee Haa! I think I figured the whole thing out...

Later,
Rick

 

[steamdrivre]

OK, folks, I found this set up to WORK after a year of experimenting.
I don't know the proper terms to use so bare with me and if anybody tried to explain this to me earlier, I'm sorry for not understanding it.
Here goes,
The black letters represent the proper way signaling is supposed to work in the real world but it never has for me in Trainz.
The red Xs are signals controlling the Block in hot pink and is the key to making this thing work on my layout.
Each set of sidings needs a controlling signal to govern it, the red Xs. In other words, an approaching train needs to see the red Xed signals BEFORE entering the blocked area in hot pink.
The Zs are nothing more then another signal that sometimes needs to be there to help control the space between the hot pink Blocks.

I have finely gotten the AI to run as it should with this set up.

Signaling has been a nightmare for me, I only hope this helps anybody else.

@Mick , In Surveyor, click the query tool, (?), then click on an engine and the window that pops up has a Priority level for your engines. Just click on the number to change it.


The happy route builder,
Rick