N3V Needs to support pre-SP1 users with DLC

[mikeaust]

I held back buying TS12 for more than 12 mths, until I went to a Victrainz group meeeting when I was in Melbourne. Zec showed me what the graphics could be like and I was impressed so went home and bought it.
It turned out to be a big mistake, with so many problems over time and the fact that N3V didn't seem to be interested in doing much about it, I returned to 2010.
The only reason I have kept TS12 is to run Philskenes routes. I hope he will continue to make them for both Pre and Post SP1.
I own a number of DLCs but will not be getting any more unfortunately and I wont be getting the next version of Trainz either.
I also bought another FCT, my third and now find that quite often access to the DLS is not only slow but non existent, so I wont bother with that again as well.
I have enough assets to keep me happy for a long time, thanks to all the great creators, many of whom have just given up and moved on. I will still be on the forums as I enjoy the feedback and information gained there,
cheers,
Mike

 

[jjanmarine3]

To lay my eggie too -
I guess trainzers attitudes to the upgrades and packs depend on what they do with their specific versions.
I am happy to stay where I am because I am not involved in creating etc , - I just enjoy and have fun with the basic game plus the bonus downloads that I can understand and stuff that I I can fix when there are errors. The rest I will give a go to apply if I see anything that appeals to me , but if I can't do it even with help from other trainzers I just leave it alone and its cool if a fix comes along later.
I don't want to complain about freeware or payware or what NV3 is giving us , I have plenty to keep me busy and still plenty to explore that I have not even touched yet.
While the boffins sort out the serious stuff I won't buy anything new related to SP1 and up, I tried it once, it is too stressful for fun, lucky for me it did not work and did not affect any of what I have as far as I can see.
So basically for me , freeware is thanks very much guys, and payware is my perogative to buy, which I will do if I can use it and to support the guys who make it.

 

[kenneth18278]

I have no intention of upgrading to SP1 anytime soon, not only because of the bugs (widely reported elsewhere), but also the DRM. If I pay for DLC I expect it to be faultless, and for me to be able to do with it what I will (including fixing any errors), as long as I comply with the copyright conditions. SP1 prevents this, or at the very least makes it unreasonably difficult (have a 49922 install also, clone, change in 49922, import to SP1 install, blah-de-blah! Why?).

I was looking forward to getting the LMS Loop (Potteries?) line from the SnC guys when it becomes available. Won't be doing that now, nor any further DLC that requires SP1. As has been mentioned, there are third party payware creators, and I shall continue to support them, but N3V won't be getting any further custom from me under the present circumstances.

I'm with jjanmarine3 on this, Trainz is fun, you can see from my station stops I have plenty to be amusing myself with, so I don't need anymore. I just turned 65 and recently retired, which gives me more time for Trainz, among other things, just as Traiinz seems to have decided to have no time for me!

I hope this does not come across as a rant. It is not intended to be. More a lament.

 

[Kennilworth]

Hi

Thanks to nathanmallard for giving me a laugh this morning with his signature "Your resident voice of wisdom". He continually posts withering comments about TS12 SP1 yet he doesn't even own the pre SP1 version. This means that he can't know what he is talking about but is only rehashing other peoples opinions of SP1 - not much wisdom there then. He makes sweeping statements about the number of people using or not using SP1 without a shred of evidence - a distinct lack of wisdom there as well. When you can show me the figures of how many people worldwide are using TS12, how many of them are using SP1 and how many of them are having problems of some sort I will start to look at your posts seriously instead of just treating them as amusing hysterical outbursts.

Perhaps you should look up the word wisdom in a dictionary and then remove your signature.

Regards

Brian

 

[haddock56]

Guess I'll throw in my two cents as well. I for one am reluctant to update to SP1 since my first go-around with Trainz 12 resulted in script errors and I finally gave up and re-installed Trainz 2010. Recently that game started becoming troublesome and wouldn't install so I ordered a new copy of Trainz 2012, which to my surprise I had ordered the British version of Trainz. I don't quite understand why DRM was implemented, and for the most part I have given up on content creation. If anything, I will only update my scrap 4-8-2 and possibly my Montauk & Aberdeen route, since it was my first route I ever uploaded. I currently run Trainz 2012 without any patches or anything else. It's worked flawlessly for me and I fail to see the benefit in having to patch to SP1 if its so infested with problems. Yes its possible I could give it a chance, but that is a long shot and there's an even bigger long shot that I would even create any content for it. So yeah, running a error-free and stable installation of Trainz must be mutiny or something, bc it appears that you can't do anything but upgrade when they say you have to.

 

[Robert2d6]

As much as I dislike SP1 and the direction N3V is taking - I will no longer purchase N3V products, including Trainz, DLC, etc and am no longer uploading to the DLS - online polls don't tell you much. Odds are, the majority of non-Steam users (who have patches forced on them) probably aren't even aware of it, especially the casual users who only occasionally fire up the game.

Only N3V might have semi-accurate data, based on pings to their servers identifying different versions. The flipside is that any pings do not necessarily account for multiple versions, people who roll back, amount of use, and (obviously) do not account for offline use. I even have one version of SP1 (actually as a beta, since I was in the beta program) running offline, though I don't run it too often for building or running trains.

That said, N3V had better be prepared for an exodus, however small, of not only purchasers, but content creators, all because they really think they're losing sales in countries where the game costs 20% and the DLC 10% of the average monthly salary. :smh:

I am not going to ruin my TS12 with the buggy SP1 and all the attempts to fix it after the fact, so basically I have not downloaded anything since SP1 came out. I am certain that there are many TS12 users that are in the same group as I am. I think that N3V has split the users of TS12 into 2 groups now, and is just supporting the Sp1 group. I doubt seriously if I will buy any new versions of Trainz.

 

[Robert2d6]

Hi

Thanks to nathanmallard for giving me a laugh this morning with his signature "Your resident voice of wisdom". He continually posts withering comments about TS12 SP1 yet he doesn't even own the pre SP1 version. This means that he can't know what he is talking about but is only rehashing other peoples opinions of SP1 - not much wisdom there then. He makes sweeping statements about the number of people using or not using SP1 without a shred of evidence - a distinct lack of wisdom there as well. When you can show me the figures of how many people worldwide are using TS12, how many of them are using SP1 and how many of them are having problems of some sort I will start to look at your posts seriously instead of just treating them as amusing hysterical outbursts.

Perhaps you should look up the word wisdom in a dictionary and then remove your signature.

Regards

Brian

You have no facts at all to back up your statements either , so you probably are just making up stuff , trying to claim the title "self appointed expert" that you think you are.

 

[boc61]

I took the SP1 plunge and it has pretty much been pain free, for me anyway. I'm usually not a early adopter , I don't own a smart phone or mobile thingy and still use CD's as my main music source. Back wjen 2006 came out I was a die hard "You'll have to pry 2004 from my cold dead hard drive" type. I will probably stay with Win7 until it is either unsupported or no long functions according to my needs.Flash forward 5 years or so and here I am now.

Since I was new to TS12 when SP1 hit the rails, I figured I had nothing to lose since I had no legacy content. There were a few hiccups along the way, and I did have to spend some time on "busy work" like adding thumbnails, but overall I'm fine with the way SP1 runs admittedly in large part because I have nothing to compare it to. I am a bit concerned how the DRM thing will pan out moving forward, I'm taking a wait and see attitude toward it all. I do find it amazing how one person can have no problems with the game and others can't run it at all, but that's the nature of computer software I guess, it's not an area that I am very well versed in.

I do think N3V had mishandled the SP1 situation for the very beginning, not communicating it's pending arrival and implications and I think they have been slow to respond to the outcry. The same was the case with Auran back in 06 and you would think they might have learned from it. I think the people who we see here mostly, Zec and Chris, are sincere and care about the game and it's users and want to see it continue to grow and thrive, I'm just not so sure about those behind and above them. But when push comes to shove, even they have to take the company line, especially in today's economic climate.

N3V is in a quandary. They have a popular product with a passionate user base. It is a niche product however, it's appeal and reach will be limited. They need to expand that reach while maintaining the interest and support of it's most ardent users, who in many cases have contributed so much to keeping the game alive. It's not an easy task to reach out to new customers while avoiding alienating current ones while also finding a business model that will work in a very competitive industry. In the end, the game has to move forward to survive. but N3V should strive to keep supporting those who may choose to stand pat at the very least as a reward for their loyalty to the product over the years.

Sorry for the sermon, we now return you to the hyperbole and soapboxing portion of our show.

 

[Vern]

It wouldn't be so bad if the DRM actually worked properly, but the constant looping downloads of already installed content beggars belief and IMHO quite apart from other factors is a good reason why it should have been held off until it actually worked properly. N3V don't seem to be any closer to finding a fix either.

The sad fact is none of this is likely to cut any ice with the money men who now run the company. Past purchase history and loyalty count for nothing, as noted by one of the N3V staff a little while back anyone who doesn't own the latest and greatest version is regarded as a former or one time customer. Don't be at all surprised if resistance to SP1 and the "proud" hotfixes actually leads to an acceleration of the lifecycle policy so failure to toe the company line leaves you out in the cold quicker than you might think!

 

[boc61]

I haven't had any looping of my DLC yet, but I see where people have . I do have the built in "Mosti" updates perpetually stuck in my update queue which is mildly annoying .

I definitely can agree with the rest of your post, it could happen, sooner rather than later.

 

[JCitron]

It wouldn't be so bad if the DRM actually worked properly, but the constant looping downloads of already installed content beggars belief and IMHO quite apart from other factors is a good reason why it should have been held off until it actually worked properly. N3V don't seem to be any closer to finding a fix either.

The sad fact is none of this is likely to cut any ice with the money men who now run the company. Past purchase history and loyalty count for nothing, as noted by one of the N3V staff a little while back anyone who doesn't own the latest and greatest version is regarded as a former or one time customer. Don't be at all surprised if resistance to SP1 and the "proud" hotfixes actually leads to an acceleration of the lifecycle policy so failure to toe the company line leaves you out in the cold quicker than you might think!

This sounds like EA Games. This is what happens when the "suits" and bean counters are in control of a company. They only see things through a spreadsheet and numbers in columns. They are completely distant from customer service and customer satisfaction.

John

 

[JEB114]

Have went thru the sp1 pains and excitement. System running great now, n3v still needs to get the bugs out of CM 3.7. But I believe the program needs to march forward. The past has to fall away for the future to be better. Betamax is gone, cassettes are gone, Lazer disks are gone. buy the end of this year DVD's and CD's will be gone. The point being I know you all love that version of trainz you started with but the company needs to move on. Reading your post's make me chuckle. you all want legacy points. and there are threads in this forum who complain other train simulators have past us by. I say dump the old and start building the new. The young kids today who have been born with I Pads and Smartphone's in there crib's. Will look at these Sims, Trainz 6,7,8,9,10and 12 and say what junk lets see what's new!!!

 

[nicky9499]

I took the SP1 plunge and it has pretty much been pain free, for me anyway. I'm usually not a early adopter , I don't own a smart phone or mobile thingy and still use CD's as my main music source. Back wjen 2006 came out I was a die hard "You'll have to pry 2004 from my cold dead hard drive" type. I will probably stay with Win7 until it is either unsupported or no long functions according to my needs.

Now that you mention it, I realize I'm also quite the "slow adopter" despite my love for technology. I stayed with Windows XP until at least 2010, then tried Vista 6 months before going back to XP until Win7 in 2011. I've never touched a Windows 8 PC before. My iPhone is still running iOS5 because the newer versions dropped Youtube and Maps. All my Macs stay at Snow Leopard 10.6.8 because I tried and abhorred Lion. Since their future products will not support older operating systems (both mobile and Mac), this effectively means I will no longer spend my money with Apple because what point is buying a product you won't enjoy?

Sadly, it appears the same situation is happening with N3V. If the next iterations of Trainz doesn't bring about significant improvements, as far as I am concerned TS12 49922 is the furthest I will ever go in Trainz. They can follow EA and cut off support, but that will just mean I'll also stop buying FCTs.

Nicholas

 

[RRSignal]

Have went thru the sp1 pains and excitement. System running great now, n3v still needs to get the bugs out of CM 3.7. But I believe the program needs to march forward. The past has to fall away for the future to be better. Betamax is gone, cassettes are gone, Lazer disks are gone. buy the end of this year DVD's and CD's will be gone. The point being I know you all love that version of trainz you started with but the company needs to move on. Reading your post's make me chuckle. you all want legacy points. and there are threads in this forum who complain other train simulators have past us by. I say dump the old and start building the new. The young kids today who have been born with I Pads and Smartphone's in there crib's. Will look at these Sims, Trainz 6,7,8,9,10and 12 and say what junk lets see what's new!!!

What exactly is "forward"? What little the SP1 does do is fix bugs that shouldn't have existed in the first place. That's why it's a "service pack" or "patch" versus a new version. Supposedly, some minor improvements have been made (and I'm really taking other's word for that - I haven't seen anything. Moreover, having been a beta tester, I know that these supposed improvements are mostly incidental to the bug fixes, and are not necessarily intentional). I run pre-SP1 TS12 and still have a version of SP1 trainz available. Comparing side-by-side, there is no difference running the game that I can see.

Exactly what do "young kids today who have been born with I Pads and Smartphone's in there crib's" have to do with this or even the price of tea in China? Are you saying N3V should focus on kid's games aimed at IPads and smartphone platforms? Then they can drop PC versions altogether, and your post is moot.

 

[oldie]

Is it possible to produce models,routes etc. that will work in TS12 with or without the service patches ???,I ask because philskene has uploaded one or two sessions for his "trinity bay industrial" route that are listed in his descriptions as just that "will work in TS12 with or without the service patch. They work fine for me in TS12 Pre-patch 49922, and are itemised in the config. file as trainz-build 3.6....I know very little about model making and its problems, but am curious! regards

 

[RRSignal]

Is it possible to produce models,routes etc. that will work in TS12 with or without the service patches ???,I ask because philskene has uploaded one or two sessions for his "trinity bay industrial" route that are listed in his descriptions as just that "will work in TS12 with or without the service patch. They work fine for me in TS12 Pre-patch 49922, and are itemised in the config. file as trainz-build 3.6....I know very little about model making and its problems, but am curious! regards

Sure. That's how content is supposed to be made or repaired, in most cases. Content made for modern versions of Trainz (2.9/TS2009 or after) should all work in TS12, with or without the SP. Routes and sessions are an exception, but route and session builders generally build in whatever version they have. Ideally, they'd build a route or session in, say, TS2010, which will allow it to work with that version as well as TS12.

 

[wkwood]

I just updated toWindows 8.1 on another machine and it is riddled with problems. This is MICROSOFT for god's sake!!! The largest software developer on the planet.

Windows 8.1 is a Beta release OS, a preview. RTM is scheduled for August to align with the Christmas Holiday shopping season.

 

[amigacooke]

My iPhone is still running iOS5 because the newer versions dropped Youtube and Maps.

They're both available in iOS6 now, though I suppose you may just as well wait for 7

 

[boc61]

This sounds like EA Games. This is what happens when the "suits" and bean counters are in control of a company. They only see things through a spreadsheet and numbers in columns. They are completely distant from customer service and customer satisfaction.

John

Pretty much why I am still playing Sim City 4 and will not go near 5.

 

[AntonyVW]

Windows 8.1 is a Beta release OS, a preview. RTM is scheduled for August to align with the Christmas Holiday shopping season.

I doubt that will make that much difference. Just look at the turnaround they had to make in regards to Xbox One. MS are just after our pennies like anyone else and wont do anything to correct problems unless it is having a serious impact on what finances they lose. Same is beginning to be the norm across the board. There were many problems reported during beta testing which are only now being addressed. They should never have made it into the finished product. Does that sound familiar?