My TRS19 U.S. Standard Gauge Procedural Track Project

[blueodessey]

Wow....Does that Track look nice........I'm finishing doing my Yearly Taxes for Uncle Sam this weekend (GRRRRR):'( , but when I finish, you can be assured I will get the updated Route.......

Thank you for your hard work Master Sgt........I would think that with all the documentation, pictures here, and the interest it has spurred across the Forum, many forum members will benefit greatly from your experience and teachings.....Well done Sir........:wave:

 

[MSGSapper]

BTW to go with that new track I have been producing build 4.6 PBR textured based bridges that are now available for download on the DLS. I expect in time virtually every bridge my routes used will be updated in this way, including Ben Dorsey's.

Note: With each bridge release I am including all the Blender projects files for that bridge. No excuse now for you all not to be creative and produce lots of variations of these bridges.

Bob

 

[pitkin]

Thank you for your efforts. I am seeing significant moire patterns with your new track at medium distances. The effect is not seen with Jarrah track on the same route. Any way to get around this? Would love to use the track.

 

[MSGSapper]

Thank you for your efforts. I am seeing significant moire patterns with your new track at medium distances. The effect is not seen with Jarrah track on the same route. Any way to get around this? Would love to use the track.

Sorry, but I have no answer for you on that one, nor do I understand why that happens.

Bob

 

[dangavel]

Sorry, but I have no answer for you on that one, nor do I understand why that happens.

Bob

Normally you get a moire pattern who two patterns that have some portions of them that are transparent ( like a the grid of lines or circles in a net curtain ) are placed on top of each other , if the patterns move you get moving changing line patterns.. I imagine that the tie lines on top of the gravel bed or combos of the tie lines and track are creating the effect . But I'm speaking from experience of creating light installations for art installations and light shows, so there may be better explanations that are due to 3D model making .

 

[MSGSapper]

Normally you get a moire pattern who two patterns that have some portions of them that are transparent ( like a the grid of lines or circles in a net curtain ) are placed on top of each other , if the patterns move you get moving changing line patterns.. I imagine that the tie lines on top of the gravel bed or combos of the tie lines and track are creating the effect . But I'm speaking from experience of creating light installations for art installations and light shows, so there may be better explanations that are due to 3D model making .

Thanks for that answer!

Unfortunately I just don't have the experience to be able to deal with this graphic issue. This was an extremely complex project that took a long time to complete. It also took a lot of juggling to get everything just right so it would all work together. Because of all this I am very reluctant to start fooling around it with once again lest I screw something else up.

Of course if someone wants to take a look at the Blender files I provided with all of this and come up with a solution I will cheer you on.....

Bob

 

[jrfolco]

I just released the San Diego and Arizona Eastern Railway. I used MSGSapper's new procedural track for the entire route, and I'm very pleased with it. It does have a moire effect, but that's mostly in Surveyor. The moire effect is significantly reduced in Driver.

Thanks for your contribution,
Joe

 

[pitkin]

Screenshot of interference lines. Not complaining, just illustrating:

 

[Swordfish]

The maps by msgsapper are wonderful but unfortunately the interference lines of the tracks are making me dizzy and I have to change the tracks to use the maps.

Regards
Swordfish

 

[pitkin]

The maps by msgsapper are wonderful but unfortunately the interference lines of the tracks are making me dizzy and I have to change the tracks to use the maps.

Regards
Swordfish

Yes, and the unfortunate thing is that the game requires a new route if the track is substituted. So sessions will not work without editing the config file.

I have a suspicion that these lines and other issues have to do with PBR. Old track never showed this to my knowledge. In addition to the interference lines, the ballast seems to "run ahead" of you on tracks farther away as it is being rendered.

Also notice the distinct set of "regions" of track as you move away from the view point. This is not an object drawing setting issue, as the train cars are rendered just fine.

 

[MSGSapper]

I continue to get reports of problems with the moire effect but after doing some research have begun to realize that this may not be an issue with the track so much as an issue with TRS19 handling of parallax PBR textures, which my track uses. I searched the forums using the keyword moire and came up with a number of forum posts dating back to well before my release of my track where other track and content items using PBR parallax textures exhibited this same effect. As an example see this forum post:

https://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?148593-Shimmering-scenery&p=1732468#post1732468

What was interesting about that post is that the moire effect apparently went away when a TANE procedural track was placed nearby the TRS19 track. Here is the image from that post:

I would really like to see this issue resolved once and for all for my new TRS19 procedural track but at this point I think it will most likely need to be resolved by N3V, unless someone can furnish additional technical information on how to resolve it.

I am very reluctant to tamper with my TRS19 track because it was so difficult to create it in the first place, as achieving the right balance in height between the ballast, track, ties and other items proved surprisingly hard to get done in order to use a PBR parallax texture and to keep PBR parallax ground textures from poking up through the ballast and ties.

Also according to another post the moire effect was much less apparent in driver then it was in surveyor. I will say that on my system the moire effect has not been that bothersome of an issue, especially in driver.

Here is a screenshot of the graphics settings i Use on my TRS19 (1920x1080 144hz no vertical sync) with my EVGA 1080 graphics card:

Bob

 

[pitkin]

Firstly, thank your for the multitude of assets you have contributed to Trainz.

Insofar as the moire of your track, I think it depends a lot on the use model for the session. I often like to move back and look at large yards. If one is running a train on single track at close range, it probably is not an issue. One has to suspend disbelief to operate a model RR (or Trainz), but to me the effect just seems too unrealistic.

 

[JCitron]

The fact that a piece of T:ANE track mitigates this points to the game rendering engine and not your assets so don't touch the track.

 

[blueodessey]

Maximum length of Track between Splines recommended???

Thanks for that answer!

Unfortunately I just don't have the experience to be able to deal with this graphic issue. This was an extremely complex project that took a long time to complete. It also took a lot of juggling to get everything just right so it would all work together. Because of all this I am very reluctant to start fooling around it with once again lest I screw something else up.

Of course if someone wants to take a look at the Blender files I provided with all of this and come up with a solution I will cheer you on.....

Bob

Hello Master Sgt,

In relation to this older Thread discussion, I need your expertise on the lenght of Splines for Rail in Straight lengths for now.....Because this is where I have a problem occasionally on my Route......When I have long runs of Straight Rail segments.?

https://forums.auran.com/trainz/sho...mit-to-the-length-of-a-single-track-or-spline

From what I gather, sections of the Rail will disappear as your rolling down the screen in surveyor and also on Driver, under some circumstances. So maybe it is my Graphics Card can't deal with long sections of Track and few Splines, as I like from an Operating system perspective, to use less splines etc, Density of Trees and what not, so It doesn't slow my NVIDIA 1050 xt Card down on Frame Rate......to much.......As I have merged 3 Routes together, with a good amount of Trackage in some spots.

It looks like the sweet spot is somewhere between 65' or 20 meters, and North up to 200 Meters or 656 ' feet maximum, if the 656 Feet works, I round it off to 650 feet of Max Distance between any long stretches of Track Splines, in some open country Stretches on my Route.

I knew there was limit on Tree and Shrub, Grass Splines too, it is relatively the same thing, only so much Graphics Rendering Trainz or the Video Card can handle, but I have experienced this in a few spots and wondered if the disappearing Tracks was attributed to this phenomena...And now it makes sense to me....

Just like your take on max distance Master Sergeant that you use for long runs of Straight Track, once it curves naturally, you add a Spline here and there to break up the curves how you want it, and that keeps max length minimized of course......

How do they say it, you trip over something occasionally and helps you learn things.....LOL


Oh and I don't don't care for Meters since I was raised on the Feet and Yards measurement way of doing things. Awkward thing Meters, the World needs to be one or the other, someday, will probably convert to Meters, hopefully, I'll be pushing Daisy's up in Feet by that time...LOL

 

[MSGSapper]

Hello Master Sgt,

In relation to this older Thread discussion, I need your expertise on the lenght of Splines for Rail in Straight lengths for now.....Because this is where I have a problem occasionally on my Route......When I have long runs of Straight Rail segments.?

https://forums.auran.com/trainz/sho...mit-to-the-length-of-a-single-track-or-spline

From what I gather, sections of the Rail will disappear as your rolling down the screen in surveyor and also on Driver, under some circumstances. So maybe it is my Graphics Card can't deal with long sections of Track and few Splines, as I like from an Operating system perspective, to use less splines etc, Density of Trees and what not, so It doesn't slow my NVIDIA 1050 xt Card down on Frame Rate......to much.......As I have merged 3 Routes together, with a good amount of Trackage in some spots.

It looks like the sweet spot is somewhere between 65' or 20 meters, and North up to 200 Meters or 656 ' feet maximum, if the 656 Feet works, I round it off to 650 feet of Max Distance between any long stretches of Track Splines, in some open country Stretches on my Route.

I knew there was limit on Tree and Shrub, Grass Splines too, it is relatively the same thing, only so much Graphics Rendering Trainz or the Video Card can handle, but I have experienced this in a few spots and wondered if the disappearing Tracks was attributed to this phenomena...And now it makes sense to me....

Just like your take on max distance Master Sergeant that you use for long runs of Straight Track, once it curves naturally, you add a Spline here and there to break up the curves how you want it, and that keeps max length minimized of course......

How do they say it, you trip over something occasionally and helps you learn things.....LOL


Oh and I don't don't care for Meters since I was raised on the Feet and Yards measurement way of doing things. Awkward thing Meters, the World needs to be one or the other, someday, will probably convert to Meters, hopefully, I'll be pushing Daisy's up in Feet by that time...LOL

Blue:

I am not sure I understand what you are looking for here. My track has the lod-distance parameter set for 500 meters. For more on that parameter see:

http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php/"track-lod-tree"_container

How much of the track, and many other things, you can see at a time on the screen is governed by both the settings in that content item and your video settings. Below is a screenshot that shows those settings. In my case I have the maximum draw distance set to 2500 meters. If you maximum draw distance is set to a lower number then LOD-distance it will then override the LOD-distance parameter for that item.

BTW please just call me Bob, instead of using my retired rank.

Bob

 

[JCitron]

The more I look at this, I wonder if it has something to do with the shadows interacting with the ties that's causing the moire. Unfortunately right now my Trainzing PC is down due to a hard disk failure last night so I can't confirm this and the machine is copying the data from the dying drive to another one internally and I want to give the system as much oomph as it needs to copy the data.

 

[blueodessey]

Override Draw Distance CAP to use or not to use it???

Blue:

I am not sure I understand what you are looking for here. My track has the lod-distance parameter set for 500 meters. For more on that parameter see:

http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php/"track-lod-tree"_container

How much of the track, and many other things, you can see at a time on the screen is governed by both the settings in that content item and your video settings. Below is a screenshot that shows those settings. In my case I have the maximum draw distance set to 2500 meters. If you maximum draw distance is set to a lower number then LOD-distance it will then override the LOD-distance parameter for that item.


BTW please just call me Bob, instead of using my retired rank.

Bob

Sorry Bob,

I will make that change, with Name usage, I understand, it's just a respect thing........

And thanks for your answer, on the Rail Length, that makes perfect sense, I will need to look at what my Draw distance is set for first in Global Settings.

This part of the information, was what I needed too, too get a sense of how far the track draws out, I should have opened one of your Track Assets and looked at that too, didn't think of it in LOD construct, makes perfect sense in the linear draw out dimension......

"My track has the lod-distance parameter set for 500 meters. For more on that parameter see"

That 500 meters is a good length feet (approx 1640.42') that is more than enough for some spots where I saw tracks disappearing on me........

Will need to set the Track Spline distances in some of those long run areas through open country to say, like 75% shorter than my Global Draw settings and that should do the Trick.........!!!


One last thing, do you ever suggest using the Override Draw Distance CAP switch in Global settings above? The reason I ask, is I like seeing my Mountains in the distance when possible, and I thought if I had that turned on, it would show them, am I thinking correct, or just muddying up the Graphic Waters here by trying to use it......? Thoughts please..........

Appreciate your time sir.........

 

[MSGSapper]

The more I look at this, I wonder if it has something to do with the shadows interacting with the ties that's causing the moire. Unfortunately right now my Trainzing PC is down due to a hard disk failure last night so I can't confirm this and the machine is copying the data from the dying drive to another one internally and I want to give the system as much oomph as it needs to copy the data.

John;

Funny, I was thinking the same thing last night as well when I typed my earlier replies on the subject. When I have some time I will play around with the does-cast-shadows parameter in the mesh-table container and see if that might change things for the track, assuming that will work with the track.

Anyone else tried that?

Bob

 

[MSGSapper]

Sorry Bob,

I will make that change, with Name usage, I understand, it's just a respect thing........

One last thing, do you ever suggest using the Override Draw Distance CAP switch in Global settings above? The reason I ask, is I like seeing my Mountains in the distance when possible, and I thought if I had that turned on, it would show them, am I thinking correct, or just muddying up the Graphic Waters here by trying to use it......? Thoughts please..........

No problem on the name thing. While I am proud of my military service I have been retired for over 26 years now so Bob feels more natural now then being called "Sergeant" once again. Since I have retiring from the Army I have already had two other careers as well. Now its just plain old completely retired.

As for the Override Draw Distance CAP I have not tried using it, nor am familiar with it, so can't really advise you on it. You can go to the below link however for information on that setting:

http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php/Help:Video_Settings#Override_Draw_Distance_Cap

Bob

 

[MSGSapper]

I decided to check the effect that shadows has on the moire effect. I did several tests using the following:

1. In the mesh files I used the does-cast-shadows = 0 setting.
2. In the CM graphic settings I turned shadow quality completely off.
3. Tried different shadow settings in the CM graphic settings.

In all case shadows had no effect on the moire effect showing up on my track.

I also decided to to test the effect of the following CM graphic settings by turning it off or changing it that setting:

1. Main shadow resolution.
2. Post processing.
3. Antialiasing.
4. Detail update rate.
5. Uses PhysX simulation.
6. Texture detail.

With the exception of Shader quality the results of each change had no effect on the moire effect. Of course as my track requires the shader quality to be set to Ultra because of the parallax PBR textures which are being used this is not an option.

At this point I think the problem lies in the shader but can't say much more then that.

Bob