More competition for Tony and Co

[pfx]

I like to think that those who have such a negative attitude towards RW actually own both sims and don't just base their opinions on what they've read. I don't see why any discussion comparing the two sims needs to descend into argument. As nicky9497 says, you can't compare like for like as both sims excel at different things.

I use both RW and Trainz and there are pros and cons to both. For route building, it's Trainz every time. The interface is quick and easy to use and RW doesn't come close in terms of ease of use so Trainz wins hands down in that respect. If I want to 'drive' trains however, then RW is always first choice for me. From the driver's view, the experience is really immersive which means I stay in the cab whereas in Trainz, I would tend to use a tracking camera. I generally only drive in Trainz for route testing. RW is payware which is a big minus when you consider what's available for free in Trianz. This is obviously a big gripe for some who don't want to or are unable to pay but it doesn't make RW a bad sim. While I would rather not fork out for everything I get, if it's good quality, it takes the sting out somewhat and it gets used.

I have what I consider a good PC set up and while I can run RW with maxed out settings and a good FPS 95% of the time, Trainz still manages to cause stutters. I'm hoping TANE will address the graphic rendering issue with the new engine.

I'm new to RW but I can see the advantages it holds over current versions of Trainz. That said, I'm still going to be installing TANE on release and will be sticking with Trainz. Just because I use one program doesn't exclude me from using the other and I enjoy both for differing reasons.

 

[tads1]

Tane's roadmap looks a little more exciting,but the amount of prototypical payware routes available for RW from dedicated teams seems to have a great future,apart from S&C no other payware for the UK.
I would love to see Payware Woodhead,WCML......

Daz

 

[wholbr]

Hi everbody
[

I like to think that those who have such a negative attitude towards RW actually own both sims and don't just base their opinions on what they've read. I don't see why any discussion comparing the two sims needs to descend into argument. As nicky9497 says, you can't compare like for like as both sims excel at different things.

I use both RW and Trainz and there are pros and cons to both. For route building, it's Trainz every time. The interface is quick and easy to use and RW doesn't come close in terms of ease of use so Trainz wins hands down in that respect. If I want to 'drive' trains however, then RW is always first choice for me. From the driver's view, the experience is really immersive which means I stay in the cab whereas in Trainz, I would tend to use a tracking camera. I generally only drive in Trainz for route testing. RW is payware which is a big minus when you consider what's available for free in Trianz. This is obviously a big gripe for some who don't want to or are unable to pay but it doesn't make RW a bad sim. While I would rather not fork out for everything I get, if it's good quality, it takes the sting out somewhat and it gets used.

I have what I consider a good PC set up and while I can run RW with maxed out settings and a good FPS 95% of the time, Trainz still manages to cause stutters. I'm hoping TANE will address the graphic rendering issue with the new engine.

I'm new to RW but I can see the advantages it holds over current versions of Trainz. That said, I'm still going to be installing TANE on release and will be sticking with Trainz. Just because I use one program doesn't exclude me from using the other and I enjoy both for differing reasons.

As always well stated pfx. I one hundred percent agree with everything you advised the forum of in your above posting. One earlier posting that made me chuckle was when a member stated that the graphics in RW are too dark together with a too high contrast definition. Well, there are controls in the settings of RW to change both contrast and brightness which the opening pages of the software points any user toward.

If the above is not to the users liking, why not just change the settings on the system monitor (lol). I believe that posting was really scraping the bottom of the barrel for trying to make a case against RW.

As stated in my earlier posting, I have run both RW and Trainz on my system for the last four years. Both have their good and bad points and that is as far as the argument needs to go on this forum as far as I am concerned. Anything more is simply nothing else but biased hot air.

pfx why not resurrect the " beer is brainfood " thread as this forum could certainly do with some real good humour these days.


Bill

 

[Vern]

I would assume the core update will be free again although, as always, if you don't already own the "new" default routes as DLC you will have to buy them, possibly at reduced price.

As most regulars on here will know, I keep my feet firmly in both sims and my general consensus is that Trainz Surveyor is great for building routes, but I find the driving frustrating for the reasons as already mentioned - namely having to route set yourself as you go. If this aspect has been dealt with for TANE, all well and good.

So far as driving is concerned, it doesn't get much better than WCML North (probably still the best ever route for RW), in a Class 86 or 87 with accurate tap changer throttle and heading out from Carlisle on a darkening and stormy evening. The editor is inferior to Surveyor in some ways, mainly the painting and manipulation of terrain textures. However it's not that bad and certainly not impossible to use providing you spend time getting acquainted with it and clear your mind that it's *not* Trainz (or MSTS for that matter).

 

[ex-railwayman]

I cannot understand why folks thinks that FAILWORKS is competition for Trainz, both are different, Trainz isn't a cash cow and has 10 years head start over the other and that will NEVER be bettered in freeware content or variety.
I looked recently at the Chinese routes that were released by Just Trains for Failworks, it made me laugh, they are still building routes utilising the same ground textures, railtrack, trees, etc, as they were 7/8 years ago, and they have the exact same content for every region around the world, at least with Trainz we have thousands of different trees, and ground textures, and at least our maps from around the globe actually look more realistic.
The major difference for me is that for the last 6 months I can play on any Trainz route guaranteed that I won't be interrupted by a stupid sbhh that crops up so often on the other game for no apparent reason, which completely throws the end user out of their stride and enjoyment, and as the game so often froze when driving trains at ridiculous speeds, 240Kph, for example, I gave up, the entertainment level dipped to a minus figure.....And don't get me started on paying good money for various American locomotives all with the same cab interior, enginesounds and horns, that you can't change as effectively and easily as Trainz, built by British computer software designers with absolutely no knowledge of foreign railways structure, rolling stock or anything else remotely considered as authentic, it's embarrassing and expensive.
Stick with Trainz, we also have raindrops on train windows and tilting mechanisms on track and rolling stock, FAILWORKS are still playing catch up.

Cheerz. ex-railwayman.

 

[clam1952]

I wouldn't be worrying too much about TS2015, the real competition for T:ANE although seemingly some way off yet, would be this, http://www.engine-driver.com/articl...egins-work-on-next-generation-train-simulator. New game engine as in Unreal 4, of course that raises similar questions to the ones raised over here about compatibility, content creation etc.
At the end of the day there will still be those who prefer one or the other or even both.

 

[Vern]

I should also point out Malc, that Trainz remains the best and only really practical means of building narrow gauge routes (which I love), thanks to the efforts of your good self, edh6 and many others who have contributed to the DLS. Ditto tramways. There is little evidence that anyone from DTG downwards has any real interest in supporting either concept, whether freeware or payware - the only assets which were available as DLC having been long since withdrawn from sale.

Of course, tramways even more than rail routes in Trainz would benefit from some sort of automation to assist the player-driver in route setting and running to an actual timetable. (And hopefully elimination of that irritating 20cm gap twixt spline bottom and terrain in non-chunky road and rail splines).

 

[tads1]

I wouldn't be worrying too much about TS2015, the real competition for T:ANE although seemingly some way off yet, would be this, http://www.engine-driver.com/articl...egins-work-on-next-generation-train-simulator. New game engine as in Unreal 4, of course that raises similar questions to the ones raised over here about compatibility, content creation etc.
At the end of the day there will still be those who prefer one or the other or even both.

To have access to UE4,it's a monthly subscription of $19 - and then a 5% royalty fee of the product.Don't know if this is just for game DEVS,always thought this engine was designed for first person shooters
and have never seen it used for simulation.

https://www.unrealengine.com/faq

Daz

 

[clam1952]

To have access to UE4,it's a monthly subscription of $19 - and then a 5% royalty fee of the product.Don't know if this is just for game DEVS,always thought this engine was designed for first person shooters
and have never seen it used for simulation.

https://www.unrealengine.com/faq

Daz

Yes I saw that a while back, it's access to the Software development kit, the UDK for UE2 and 3 used to be free, up to the point that you are selling a finished product when you needed to start paying! Now it seems you can only get UE4 UDK by paying the monthly fee.

 

[Vern]

Reading between the lines on RW et al forums, I do get the impression there is some concern that a UE4 train-sim will either be closed architecture (like World of Subways) or so complex that it will be beyond the ability of mere mortals to develop for. That could be entirely assumption of course!

However it does mean that providing T:ANE retains the flexibility of the current Surveyor system, may well have the edge for route building in the second half of the "teenies".

 

[Scitimar]

Now it seems you can only get UE4 UDK by paying the monthly fee.

It's not at all the same as previous iterations of the UDK. What you get is >> " the entire C++ source code, which includes code for the Unreal Editor and all the tools " . The source code for the editor and tools allows them to cut out bits and pieces they don't need and then build a suite of tools to import content and such from most of the top 3D packages available [ Blender included ] it should be much like they already have with the Blueprint Editor/Mesh Viewer. Based on what I've been told by guys that do code it is possible to use UE4 for what they want. Time will tell whether they turn hype into reality >> much like N3V and TANE.

I already have a UE4 sub.

 

[clam1952]

That explains the monthly charge then, other than open source game engines, nobody is going to hand out full source code free.

 

[Sourdough]

.....and the route editor really is impossible to use.....

Great....I can do the impossible. You need to clarify that it is impossible for you to use....that's a concept most people here can grasp...

 

[tads1]

Yes I saw that a while back, it's access to the Software development kit, the UDK for UE2 and 3 used to be free, up to the point that you are selling a finished product when you needed to start paying! Now it seems you can only get UE4 UDK by paying the monthly fee.

Thank's for that infomation Malc,I wasn't sure but it's very clear now,it must work out better with monthly fees rather than a lump sum.

Daz

 

[rjhowie]

My first discovery of rail sims was Microsoft then by chance came across Trainz which I moved to. Trying to build something MS was beyond the pale. Iwas curious when this particular offering came out but as has been said before it too is a nightmare for building anything. Having bought it in it's early days I wasn't taken with it at all as it was a nightmare trying to build on it too. Bothe will be okay for the techy minded but the vast majority of those of us who are average (suspect the majority!) it is a no-brainer. So it went into the bin and I just stuck with Trainz. I have no problem with anyone wholes the alternative player but every so often up comes a thread here on a versus situation between them! When you have been here for years it makes me sigh costantly having this other sim brought up here over the yearsbut in fairness many will not be aware that there is a long history of the contest but doesn't stop me getting bored with it though! With some permanent ill-health interventions I am glad I found trainz even if a pssing compliemnt but generally i am very pleased I discovered it and am as loyal as they come.

With Trainz being one of the many who don't want a Mount Everest to climb in building, Trainz is an easy and brilliant sim to use and create things on. From Glasgow I would send the creator a crate of our other national drink, Irn Bru and maybe enclosed a giant supply of shortbread to go with it! Meantime being okay a little bit selfish, I do hope this thread dies like all the previous ones as it just tends to be the same things but just said differently!

 

[martinvk]

Interesting how this type of thread keeps coming back at regular intervals with very similar points of view: "they're all bad or they've got some good points ." Since going to the Steam delivery format has killed any chance of personally trying it, I can only go by my reading of various RW dedicated forums to see what is going on over there. With that proviso, it seems that the RW environment is becoming more and more locked down to what RW decides to supply as well as more and more a straight game with tasks to complete with penalties for errors. Great if that is what you like. Not my cup of tea.

Me I like the almost total freedom to do what I like in Trainz. True that freedom comes with a price, greater variability in quality and a much more chaotic environment.

 

[dpgibbons]

TS2015 will be a relatively minor update. The real debate is how the new UE4 based version of TS due next year (?) is going to shape up against TANE. It seems that TS:UE4 will not be compatible with TS content, which will allow more scope to address the former's long standing issues with AI and physics, and DTG clearly has the resources and experience to build a class-leading sim. On the other hand the non-compatibility is a risk as it may dissuade many TS users from upgrading (or encourage them to look at TANE instead), whilst use of the UE4 platform suggests that looks rather than performance will remain the focus.

 

[Red_Rattler]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHnLUvqvncM

I think this video (not by me) does an excellent jobs of comparing Trainz and RW.

But he claims in the video that he only has one game, and not the other, therefore he really has no right in comparing the two, even though he seems to have some access to Trainz, that only customers would have access to, such as running the game itself.

But instead of him just yapping away, he should have compared them more, by ACTUALLY running them, for most of the video, and only explain when need to.

If he is going to compare two different games, he could've at least used similar rolling stock, similar routes, with similar lighting. I note that the video shows Trainz in a darker light.

This also goes for all simulators and physical models; it also depends on how well the item or product is made.

To put it simply, their are PROS & CONS in every simulator, be it train or not simulator.

Edit: For some reason, I can't post a comment on the Youtube video. I was going to say that you forget to say that Trainz has the DLS & Content Manager

 

[rjhowie]

I wish I had noted how many times (whisper the competition) has been brought up here time after time. Must be near double figures including before the great forum crash. I do I admit give a long sigh then a wee groan as although changing the wordiness it is essentially the same blooming thing over and over. I live in Glasgow and out subway system (amongst the oldest) goes round in a circle too.....

 

[martinvk]

So I had a look at the so-called head-head review and underwhelmed would not be an exaggeration. He totally missed the DLS plus the multitude of third party sites, both pay and free. No mention of the superior physics. Overlooked the AI that is not brain dead and doesn't hog its whole route. The ease of building your own world and if you're so inclined of adding your own home made objects wasn't mentioned either. Kind of makes you wonder if he ever really ran Trainz at all.

Competition, eh.