Modelling UK Signaling in the 1950s and 60s

[johnwhelan]

However, I don't think this will end up on the DLS. The file size is massive and we haven't even added the Horsham and Portsmouth DEMs yet! If you've seen those Canadian Rockies payware routes on the Trainz Store then you'll get the idea of how big this is going to be.

jatws.org can probably find it a home.

Cheerio John

 

[blueodessey]

I can't say I've seen any of the Southern approach light signals and the only standard colour light ones I've seen that don't have a rectangular surround only have a rounded top. I think there were only two aspect ones available.

You may well have seen the following link before, https://www.railsigns.uk/info/appsig1.html

This perhaps the best overall guide for UK signalling systems I think in all the years I've ever seen.

Was tooling around reading several old post that peaked My interest.

The guide is multi faceted with excellent comment, actual pictures to help one from across the Pond to benefit with good understanding when I see strange looking signals constituted within a UK Route.

Always good to pickup additional knowledge contained within these forums.

Thankyou for sharing!

 

[lewisner]

I'm grappling with signalling Darlington now and this bracket signal needed a bit of trickery to get it right. The Sig NER Cantilever is too tall and the Sig Lner signals are set to a Zero Trackside value so it won't reach over so I made this out of LMSR Gantry and LMS Gantry splines plus LMS Gantry Start for the centre post. The tall post of the junction signal had a "calling on" arm below it so I attached a miniature signal doll to Invisible Track and moved it so that its post disappears inside the main post. It doesn't work but makes the signal look more prototypical.

Darlington Bracket Signal 23.9.24 by A1 Northeastern, on Flickr

 

[edh6]

Th solution to this sort of problem is to use surveyor 2. That lets you move trackside items to arbitrary locations whilst still maintaining there relationship to a chosen point on the track.

 

[lewisner]

Th solution to this sort of problem is to use surveyor 2. That lets you move trackside items to arbitrary locations whilst still maintaining there relationship to a chosen point on the track.

Really ? I have TPG but put off using Surveyor 2 because it looks like it has a huge learning curve.

 

[edh6]

Really ? I have TPG but put off using Surveyor 2 because it looks like it has a huge learning curve.

It's pretty straightforward to swap between the two surveyor modes, you can do most work in the version you prefer, but switch across to use features unavailable in the other when needed.

 

[pfx]

Th solution to this sort of problem is to use surveyor 2. That lets you move trackside items to arbitrary locations whilst still maintaining there relationship to a chosen point on the track.

I was just about to suggest exactly the same thing but didn't bother as I was unsure if you were using a version that has S2.

The best thing about it is you can flip back and forward between the original surveyor and S2. I find that both have advantages and disadvantages. The ability to move track objects up and down, in and out, is extremely useful.

 

[blueodessey]

I'm grappling with signalling Darlington now and this bracket signal needed a bit of trickery to get it right. The Sig NER Cantilever is too tall and the Sig Lner signals are set to a Zero Trackside value so it won't reach over so I made this out of LMSR Gantry and LMS Gantry splines plus LMS Gantry Start for the centre post. The tall post of the junction signal had a "calling on" arm below it so I attached a miniature signal doll to Invisible Track and moved it so that its post disappears inside the main post. It doesn't work but makes the signal look more prototypical.

Darlington Bracket Signal 23.9.24 by A1 Northeastern, on Flickr

Proverbs ala Blue: Where there is a will, there is a way!

OR Necessity is the Mother of Invention.


Either way, kudos to you Sir, it looks terrific.

 

[blueodessey]

Th solution to this sort of problem is to use surveyor 2. That lets you move trackside items to arbitrary locations whilst still maintaining there relationship to a chosen point on the track.

Good morning,

I have fought stuff like this many a time over the Years, and usually ended up not having something to use, or using another Asset that wasn't complimentary to the eye.

Since I am relatively new to TRS19, not new to trainz, I have had several versions, from Trainz Driver II on up. This is wonderful that Surveyor 2 will allow some lateral movement for positioning of Said recalcitrant Signal.

Thank you for sharing..

 

[lewisner]

I was just about to suggest exactly the same thing but didn't bother as I was unsure if you were using a version that has S2.

The best thing about it is you can flip back and forward between the original surveyor and S2. I find that both have advantages and disadvantages. The ability to move track objects up and down, in and out, is extremely useful.

I'm currently watching a 2 hour tutorial by Approach Medium so hopefully the light will shine through the clouds at some point.

 

[Tanker46]

jatws.org can probably find it a home.

Cheerio John

I'm definitely open to the idea once it gets to a state where it's ready for a proper release. I'm thinking about releasing the Southern Half of the Route once we get the addons for Portsmouth and Horsham since the Eastern section of Newhaven, Eastbourne and Hastings is almost complete, but it will take some time for the West End to get developed. I'm hoping to complete the East End by Christmas this year, but we shall see.

File Size is also a factor too. The route is roughly the size of the Canadian Rocky Mountains: Ottertail to Castle Jcn Route on the Trainz Store which sits at a whopping 812mbs on the game disk. Granted, this is before a majority of the blank baseboards have been deleted from the file, but once Horsham and Portsmouth are added and the fat is trimmed, I imagine it will still be around this size. It will definitely be a massive route not every computer will be able to handle as a whole, but the idea is that people can split it up into multiple smaller sections the same way the SnC was split up way back in 09. That way everyone can enjoy the route without sacrificing overall quality. Perfect for screenshots and prototypical operation!

Currently I am hosting everything related to the project on Dropbox using a membership subscription, so if Jatws.org cannot hold the final file I can always host the complete route on DB and the split sections on Jatws.org if that works.

 

[JCitron]

If you can keep the total size below 1 GB, then you can compress the route into a cdp file. The size of a cdp is roughly 45% to 50% of the size on disk.

I agree not all computers can handle that and sometimes neither can the AI. I've noticed that when routes are huge, the AI drivers become increasingly stupid over time. This is probably due to too much going on for the program to handle. Breaking up the route into smaller chunks is a good idea to get around this.

 

[lewisner]

I've got to grips with Signal Placement in Surveyor 2.0 now and I'm upgrading all my signals and removing all the ones from the old days when you could alter trackside distances. This signal at Sunderland had calling on arms below the main arms so I laid 2 strips of Invisible Track and attached "Sig LMS gantry home miniature mech" to each track then raised them up so the posts disappeared inside the main signal doll. They don't function but look nice.
Question; when I try to move a signal over an adjacent track to the one it applies to, it attaches itself to the nearest track. The only way I have found to avoid this is to slew or temporarily delete the offending track while I move it. Is there any simpler way to avoid signals attaching to the nearest track when being moved ?

Sunderland Bracket Signal 30.9.24 by A1 Northeastern, on Flickr

 

[johnarran]

I've got to grips with Signal Placement in Surveyor 2.0 now and I'm upgrading all my signals and removing all the ones from the old days when you could alter trackside distances. This signal at Sunderland had calling on arms below the main arms so I laid 2 strips of Invisible Track and attached "Sig LMS gantry home miniature mech" to each track then raised them up so the posts disappeared inside the main signal doll. They don't function but look nice.
Question; when I try to move a signal over an adjacent track to the one it applies to, it attaches itself to the nearest track. The only way I have found to avoid this is to slew or temporarily delete the offending track while I move it. Is there any simpler way to avoid signals attaching to the nearest track when being moved ?

Sunderland Bracket Signal 30.9.24 by A1 Northeastern, on Flickr

Maybe move the offending track to a temporary layer and hide? Just a thought

 

[JCitron]

I've got to grips with Signal Placement in Surveyor 2.0 now and I'm upgrading all my signals and removing all the ones from the old days when you could alter trackside distances. This signal at Sunderland had calling on arms below the main arms so I laid 2 strips of Invisible Track and attached "Sig LMS gantry home miniature mech" to each track then raised them up so the posts disappeared inside the main signal doll. They don't function but look nice.
Question; when I try to move a signal over an adjacent track to the one it applies to, it attaches itself to the nearest track. The only way I have found to avoid this is to slew or temporarily delete the offending track while I move it. Is there any simpler way to avoid signals attaching to the nearest track when being moved ?

Sunderland Bracket Signal 30.9.24 by A1 Northeastern, on Flickr

In Surveyor 2.0, you can actually move signals and other track objects towards or away from track by adjusting the properties. I can't remember the exact tool but it's available and works well for situations such as this.

 

[lewisner]

In Surveyor 2.0, you can actually move signals and other track objects towards or away from track by adjusting the properties. I can't remember the exact tool but it's available and works well for situations such as this.

Yes , I'm using it and it works well but the problem is that if I move a signal to the left and it has to cross one track , the attachment point for the signal attaches to the track it is trying to cross so at present all I can do is temporarily delete the track it is crossing or move it out of the way. This isn't a problem in simple areas but in complex ones it is tricky. However I have moved most of the signals now.