ClintClassic
Known for Nothin' but Gab
When Trainz starts lookin' like the REAL world; I'll go back to playing "Civilization" :hehe:
making trainz look like the real world
- Thread starter train20
- Start date
Actually the biggest single problem Trainz or at least TS12 still has is the stupid auto draw-distance limiter imposed on users. Decided yesterday with 12km of assets placed on my WIP route it was time for a quick test drive. All the time spent doing distant hills and mountains, I might as well not have bothered as none of it is visible from the cab. Combine that with the washed out filtered look through the windscreen endemic to most Trainz motive power and what looks reasonable - and realistic - in the Surveyor editor, turns to an almighty fail when you start driving.
Wake up call to N3V - disable the auto-limiter in TS12 and let the user control how far we see, not the programme or is it the case you are concerned the Jet engine will simply choke on most hardware if the draw distance is pushed out to what other sims can easily handle? And, please, do something about the filtering effect of the cab windows which plagues probably 95% of the built in motive power. (And some built in instructions how to prep the Russian electrics so you can actually drive them would be nice, too).
Wake up call to N3V - disable the auto-limiter in TS12 and let the user control how far we see, not the programme or is it the case you are concerned the Jet engine will simply choke on most hardware if the draw distance is pushed out to what other sims can easily handle? And, please, do something about the filtering effect of the cab windows which plagues probably 95% of the built in motive power. (And some built in instructions how to prep the Russian electrics so you can actually drive them would be nice, too).
mezzoprezzo
Content appreciator
Has anyone tried TrainzTuner with TS12?
My TRS2004, with TT bolted on, effectively over-rides the limits set within the game. I can view 30km in Surveyor and Driver, including Cab view! There is still scope to further extend the range, but I’ve not bothered trying. I normally leave it at 6km which is more than adequate for most of my routes.
I know we’re talking different versions, but it’s the same game engine, so it might work!
With regard to realism, I’ve found that the software and availability of content and textures allows most scenery to be fairly faithfully copied. I’ve tried several types of terrain, rolling countryside, high mountains and coastlines and have yet to be beaten. Choose the correct assets and you can get some very pleasing results. Avoid the early type of SpeedTrees though. Sadly, they will make even the most carefully built and placed assets, particularly rolling stock, appear toylike.
In answer to the OP I reckon the most appropriate and brief answer to the question is the same as was given to the tourist in NY who asked a local, “How do I get to Carnegie Hall?”
“Practice, practice, practice!”
RoysTrainz
Rembrandt van Trainz
Hey Casper,
I still not understand the thread about realism....
We have tons of textures on the DLS and many of real good photo-realistic quality that is what textures do if properly created and used.
You talk about you have cab view different than all of us are used too.
It has been a very long time since i used TRS2004 but i cannot remember cabview different than a redicolous short and cold far from realistic view.
That is the main reason i drive almost exculsively in roaming or follow the train.
Yes absolutely without any doubt you did a more than marvelous job with TRS2004 on scenery and terrain but you still miss the opportunity TS12 offers with texturing/scenery and flora speedtrees based, it is a different dimension I would carefully call it.
Once you would address the Canadian Rocky Mountains full size details near and far than we talk again about realism Trainz and creators offer you should be part of the TS12 experience.
Sooner than later TRS2004 will not run and function anymore and
I bet reading countless posts/emails from Roy's trainz users calling the Canadian Rocky Mountains breathtaking driving on my routes. i must admit i still get the shivers/geesebumps which means job more than well done.
The section i work on now is even of better quality and detail, almost a new dimension if that is possible at least it feels like.
Again Casper i wish you made the small step for trainzers a huge step for Mezzo to call TRS 2004 a day and join us and enjoy the many new possibilites!
Welcome to a brave new world dear friend.
Best regards,
Roy:wave:
I still not understand the thread about realism....
We have tons of textures on the DLS and many of real good photo-realistic quality that is what textures do if properly created and used.
You talk about you have cab view different than all of us are used too.
It has been a very long time since i used TRS2004 but i cannot remember cabview different than a redicolous short and cold far from realistic view.
That is the main reason i drive almost exculsively in roaming or follow the train.
Yes absolutely without any doubt you did a more than marvelous job with TRS2004 on scenery and terrain but you still miss the opportunity TS12 offers with texturing/scenery and flora speedtrees based, it is a different dimension I would carefully call it.
Once you would address the Canadian Rocky Mountains full size details near and far than we talk again about realism Trainz and creators offer you should be part of the TS12 experience.
Sooner than later TRS2004 will not run and function anymore and
I bet reading countless posts/emails from Roy's trainz users calling the Canadian Rocky Mountains breathtaking driving on my routes. i must admit i still get the shivers/geesebumps which means job more than well done.
The section i work on now is even of better quality and detail, almost a new dimension if that is possible at least it feels like.
Again Casper i wish you made the small step for trainzers a huge step for Mezzo to call TRS 2004 a day and join us and enjoy the many new possibilites!
Welcome to a brave new world dear friend.
Best regards,
Roy:wave:
Last edited:
Hi Joosten,
No doubt you Rocky Mountains is a marvelous route deserving of payware credentials, I don't feel it is appropriate to talk down to Casper in the tone that you did; it sounded like you were bragging based on scale and technological superiority. Casper's scenes from TRS04 are breathtaking in their own right and I dare he say he does a better job in TRS04 than many can in TS12. To each his own.
Cheerio,
Nicholas
No doubt you Rocky Mountains is a marvelous route deserving of payware credentials, I don't feel it is appropriate to talk down to Casper in the tone that you did; it sounded like you were bragging based on scale and technological superiority. Casper's scenes from TRS04 are breathtaking in their own right and I dare he say he does a better job in TRS04 than many can in TS12. To each his own.
Cheerio,
Nicholas
RoysTrainz
Rembrandt van Trainz
Nick,
Casper is a friend of mine and I not in the farrest have the intention to put him down really!!!
No way i will read my post again and correct if thsat could been read from it.
i did edit and explain more in detail the former post what I really meant and I did tell him already last year to join us.
Yes he got most out of TRS2004 what NO ONE else did so far and he gets all the credit for that.
I hate to see him end up in a dead ally when TRS2004 cannot go any further.... would be ashame of all his creations and he can still port them to TS12 still time for it.
Roy
Casper is a friend of mine and I not in the farrest have the intention to put him down really!!!
No way i will read my post again and correct if thsat could been read from it.
i did edit and explain more in detail the former post what I really meant and I did tell him already last year to join us.
Yes he got most out of TRS2004 what NO ONE else did so far and he gets all the credit for that.
I hate to see him end up in a dead ally when TRS2004 cannot go any further.... would be ashame of all his creations and he can still port them to TS12 still time for it.
Roy
Last edited:
justinroth
Well-known member
I have found that, at least for me sound is half the experience. Am I wrong?
A decent amount of my experience with trainz (only been a year) and route building/content creation has been devoted to making good environmental and ambient sounds, though I've yet to fully test how jet can handle this.
A decent amount of my experience with trainz (only been a year) and route building/content creation has been devoted to making good environmental and ambient sounds, though I've yet to fully test how jet can handle this.
mezzoprezzo
Content appreciator
Hi Roy.
You’ll be telling me what car to buy next!
I wouldn't call getting a good result with draw distance, "bragging", as you called it pre-edit. It’s simply something which was achievable, IMHO for the better some time ago, which has now been withdrawn. I didn’t make long distance views happen –the developers did that (with, I’m guessing, some 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] party help). Neither did I reduce the viewable distance – the developers did that as well.
My post was intended to be helpful in that TT over-rides the viewable distance, albeit with some shortcomings in the way it impacts particle effect control and other performance settings. I was simply offering a suggestion, intended to be helpful, that it might work in a later version.
Cab view isn't one I use a lot. However, if you prefer to drive in Cab Mode, then you have little choice if you want to use the hands-on controls rather than keyboard short-cuts (or the more simplistic DCC).
Cab view in Trainz is one of the bonuses not available to the physical railway modeller, but has been a goal of many. That’s why builders of physical models sometimes fit mini cameras to their locos for a cab level tracking view. IMHO it’s an essential part of the overall Trainz experience. However, I would expect the range of the internal and external views to be consistent, and would be very disappointed to have anything different.
I’ll agree that the new textures have superb clarity. Artistically though, many fail either because of perspective distortion, or the scaling of the imagery is too big either in the original asset or in its application in Surveyor.
With regard to leaving my current version, I’ll change to another version (or manufacturer) when I'm good and ready. I've found that the encouragement to “move on” usually comes from within.
Cheers
Casper
You’ll be telling me what car to buy next!
I wouldn't call getting a good result with draw distance, "bragging", as you called it pre-edit. It’s simply something which was achievable, IMHO for the better some time ago, which has now been withdrawn. I didn’t make long distance views happen –the developers did that (with, I’m guessing, some 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] party help). Neither did I reduce the viewable distance – the developers did that as well.
My post was intended to be helpful in that TT over-rides the viewable distance, albeit with some shortcomings in the way it impacts particle effect control and other performance settings. I was simply offering a suggestion, intended to be helpful, that it might work in a later version.
Cab view isn't one I use a lot. However, if you prefer to drive in Cab Mode, then you have little choice if you want to use the hands-on controls rather than keyboard short-cuts (or the more simplistic DCC).
Cab view in Trainz is one of the bonuses not available to the physical railway modeller, but has been a goal of many. That’s why builders of physical models sometimes fit mini cameras to their locos for a cab level tracking view. IMHO it’s an essential part of the overall Trainz experience. However, I would expect the range of the internal and external views to be consistent, and would be very disappointed to have anything different.
I’ll agree that the new textures have superb clarity. Artistically though, many fail either because of perspective distortion, or the scaling of the imagery is too big either in the original asset or in its application in Surveyor.
With regard to leaving my current version, I’ll change to another version (or manufacturer) when I'm good and ready. I've found that the encouragement to “move on” usually comes from within.
Cheers
Casper
ray_whiley
Active member
Alan - yes I am, but I've made no secret of it in my posts - 82 now and thoroughly enjoying Trainz with, as you say, the potential for massive layouts compared with the 'one false move and it's off the end of the baseboard' modelling which I admit to enjoying for many years. And as for making models - which is what I always enjoyed most - the potential is enormous, and once one house has been made, it can be used over and over again - unlike the old days of having to find more card, glue, the steel rule and modelling knife ...
Like you, I borrowed Edward Beal's books from the local library - which once obtained a copy of one for me from Bethnal Green library - and more recently looked for years to buy a copy of 'Modelling the Old Time Railways' - then found that a facsimile had been published! It's quite amazing to find how few Trainz baseboards are needed for what were described as large layouts.
Ray
Absolutely agree with this Ray - the 'willing suspension of disbelief' is the key to all modelling.
In regard to the question posed by the OP - I've learned that it 'detail close to the railway, less detail further away.'
Paul
May it be, N3V simply wants us to make "scenery mountains" with tag "backdrop 1" (or maybe "backdrop 0" in 12SP1 ? ). I think you'll not able to find any game without bounden backgrounds except trainz. As example, MSTS and RW automatically generate them, using DEM data. But trainz can't do that itself, because its "ground" is painted with hundreds of different textures, so compilation of aggregated texture is quite hard to implement. Also, no one know, where to save these textures for 800+ km maps.
The second thesis is, N3V feels ***, if it see disappearance of some parts of meshes when the viewpoint is too close. The greater draw distance is, the stronger this effect is. But it is not very noticeable in most of interiors, as the viewpoint is usually far from dashboard. And the last known shortcoming of vast draw distanse [in interior view] in the opinian of N3V - flickering of nearby splines with the ground (but i've not noticed this effect).
So i propose to make an option to trainzoptions.txt that disables draw distance limiter with mentioned "terrible" effects (for users that consider them acceptable) and to add to game development plan a point of self-generated backgrounds.
Hold it... Trainz can be made to look "very nice". Someone mentioned shadows. RailWorks has proper shadowing (at least it looks good to me) and that makes a big difference. The second thing they have is something called THX. Another item that enhances overall scenes. Also most of their assets are not shiny new spray paints but show the actual wear and tear of a railroad operation. I like how it looks but that is as far as it goes (arguments will probably commence).
If you want a route that is not hundreds of miles of repetitive vegetation try the Kanshino route from Checkrail. There the assets were done by people with artistic talent and not spray cans. I tune it up a bit more by varying the height of grass so it does not look like it was recently cut. The Evansville route is also a visually high quality route. Again taking the time to adjust the height and type of vegetation makes a nice difference. Without those routes I would be back with RailWorks trying once again to fix the signaling.
If Trainz had the shadows and the "THX" thingy all of you would see a big difference. Oh, the ground textures and elevation mesh "over there " are pitiful so neither is visually perfect YET.
If you want a route that is not hundreds of miles of repetitive vegetation try the Kanshino route from Checkrail. There the assets were done by people with artistic talent and not spray cans. I tune it up a bit more by varying the height of grass so it does not look like it was recently cut. The Evansville route is also a visually high quality route. Again taking the time to adjust the height and type of vegetation makes a nice difference. Without those routes I would be back with RailWorks trying once again to fix the signaling.
If Trainz had the shadows and the "THX" thingy all of you would see a big difference. Oh, the ground textures and elevation mesh "over there " are pitiful so neither is visually perfect YET.
Yes it's strange in Trainz we work so hard on texturing.. yet Railworks textures are abysmall. Shows how a good lighting engine can make something look real I guess
I too would surely love to see more from the cab, but from what I've read elsewhere in the forums, this is an inherent problem with today's video cards. For some reason they have difficulties rendering distance shots while the graphics are moving. This causes poor performance and the reason why we're stuck at the 2km limit. The way around this is to hide the real distance using closer objects.
The limiter thing is something that the Jet engine has to prevent the program from crashing when there is a lot of load on the system. Usually when the limiter kicks in, it is due to a poor asset or a very old asset such as the old flip-board trees. I noticed that if I remove the old flip-board assets from an older route and replace them with newer objects, the problem goes away.
John
The limiter thing is something that the Jet engine has to prevent the program from crashing when there is a lot of load on the system. Usually when the limiter kicks in, it is due to a poor asset or a very old asset such as the old flip-board trees. I noticed that if I remove the old flip-board assets from an older route and replace them with newer objects, the problem goes away.
John
The limiter and stuttering I don't think are the same, but maybe related. I too have noticed that connection in Surveyor while editing and updating some older routes I have brought into TS12.
It makes sense though. If a poorly constructed asset or a bad texture is used, this can cause stutters and then possibly the limiter could kick in.
John
ray_whiley
Active member
Paul - and to quote from another well-respected 'old-timer', Peter Denny - 'if you can't see it, don't model it'. It certainly worked for him.
Ray
Ray
How much work do these people that want the real world expect from content creators? There's been quite a lot of whingeing about the cartoon quality of locos and scenery items. Often wondered if any of these bozos have ever attempted to make anything of their own, even a reskin? These are the standards that N3v would like for content creators to follow- High poly assets with normal mapping and around 4 step LOD mesh. The assets I have made are fairly much what I want to use in TRS2006, if others like them good if they don't I don't give a bugger.
A few months back in a forum on LODs Windy from N3V asked how good does your asset look from 1 metre distance. I don't know how valid that is, I for one don't zoom in for a good gawk at anything in Trainz that close. Trainz started out as some sort of model railway sim. In the last few years, particularly in some sort of effort to compete with RS and RW or whatever, there's been an attempt to make it into some that it never was. The end result? Speedtrees even the best of these aren't all that good. A huge mess TS12 that just seems to get worse. A good way to lose both freeware creators and customers.
A few months back in a forum on LODs Windy from N3V asked how good does your asset look from 1 metre distance. I don't know how valid that is, I for one don't zoom in for a good gawk at anything in Trainz that close. Trainz started out as some sort of model railway sim. In the last few years, particularly in some sort of effort to compete with RS and RW or whatever, there's been an attempt to make it into some that it never was. The end result? Speedtrees even the best of these aren't all that good. A huge mess TS12 that just seems to get worse. A good way to lose both freeware creators and customers.
Last edited:
Well said Falcon - I've lost track of how many times I've spent time creating a route only to have large parts of it never seen from the cab (and I'm not just talking about the TS12 draw distance which is abysmal and another matter, but other sims too). Railworks gets away with a fairly limited texture palette because most of the routes being created are multiple track mainlines or high speed stretches where the infrastructure itself is the scenery. You don't need 300 terrain textures to detail the adjacent fields and hills if you're hurtling along at 90 MPH, focusing on keeping to a timetable and preparing to brake for the next station stop. That said, some of the recent "scenic" routes created for RW such as Western Lines of Scotland or Marias Pass do look marvellous which is undoubtedly down to the TSX graphics and shading/lighting effects.