Mac version crashes to desktop when placing track...

[1611mac]

As a newbie to any version... My first and subsequent experience(s) with creating my first Route was not a fun one. When I go into Surveyor and start placing track TRS19 crashes to desktop. This happens every time I'm in Surveyor placing track. I can't get more than a few track "segments" down before another crash. Makes no difference which style of track I use. Can't even make a simple circle of four 90 deg segments without a crash. Crashes SEEM (?) more frequent if zoomed out, rather than zoomed in.

Other Mac users... are you seeing the same?

(see hardware in sig)

 

[JCitron]

Not good...

What track are you trying to place?

If the track you are using is not built-in then it could be an issue with the track spline.

Have you tried a database repair?

You may have some corrupted data and this will clean it up. Try this:

Close TRS19 if you have it running so that only the Launcher shows.
Click on Developer
Click on Rebuild Database.

Let it run... It should only take a few minutes.

 

[1611mac]

I rebuilt database and things worked better but still crashed after perhaps placing 10 or so segments. I'm trying to place "TRS19" track from the standard built in available track, several different ones including some TANE and other track (but all built in). In addition to my iMac I also have MacBook Pro and I get the same results it it. (Believe it or not, TSR19 Driver runs as well on the MBP as it does on the iMac.) (Both at lowest quality settings)

 

[JCitron]

I rebuilt database and things worked better but still crashed after perhaps placing 10 or so segments. I'm trying to place "TRS19" track from the standard built in available track, several different ones including some TANE and other track (but all built in). In addition to my iMac I also have MacBook Pro and I get the same results it it. (Believe it or not, TSR19 Driver runs as well on the MBP as it does on the iMac.) (Both at lowest quality settings)

The DBR cleaned up some of the data corruption caused by previous crashes, and that's good. The fact that you still crash means something else is going on and I don't think it's the program its self. Sadly this could be hardware overheating causing this.

Does this also occur on both your machines or only your iMac?

How long does your machine run before the program crashes?

I'm familiar with Mac hardware only because I used to support some users in the office where I worked, however, I don't normally use a Mac. What I do remember about the machines from that era, ca. 2010-2013, is they got really, really warm.

TRS19 is very CPU, RAM, and GPU intensive. When the programs operate, they generate heat and the harder the system operates, the more heat is generated. If there is inadequate cooling in your system, this can cause things to get 'touchy' and cause the programs to crash, or worse the hardware to completely shutdown.

From a hardware standpoint regardless of being a Mac or "PC", will shutdown if it gets too warm. This is actually a safety feature to prevent the components from burning up. The system will first slow down, then eventually turn off. This works to a certain extent, but there are some components such as RAM (memory DIMMS) that can become overly sensitive to heat or cold and when they are affected by the heat, they cause the system to crash outright. Way back in my hardware technician days, ca. 1980s, we would use freeze spray and a heater to force components to fail if the system was experiencing untraceable crashes.

So unless Tony can confirm it's software, I definitely suspect hardware here.

 

[1611mac]

I kindly and respectfully say... I don't think it hardware or temp issues. I create/maintain websites and I use my Macs every day for hours with NO issues at all. The crashes appear on both my iMac and MacBook pro. I have temp monitoring and temps and not excessively high. This can happen on a "cold" machine right after startup. The crashes happen on both machines and only when using Surveyor and only when placing track. I've used Mac since BEFORE Macs! (Pre Mac Apple Machines circa 1984) This is not temp related. If anyone can read Mac Crash reports I'd be happy to supply one... I'll investigate more and see if I can glean additional info...

 

[1611mac]

Additional... I do thank you for answering my post though! Appreciate it and I always need all the help I can get!

 

[JCitron]

I kindly and respectfully say... I don't think it hardware or temp issues. I create/maintain websites and I use my Macs every day for hours with NO issues at all. The crashes appear on both my iMac and MacBook pro. I have temp monitoring and temps and not excessively high. This can happen on a "cold" machine right after startup. The crashes happen on both machines and only when using Surveyor and only when placing track. I've used Mac since BEFORE Macs! (Pre Mac Apple Machines circa 1984) This is not temp related. If anyone can read Mac Crash reports I'd be happy to supply one... I'll investigate more and see if I can glean additional info...

Additional... I do thank you for answering my post though! Appreciate it and I always need all the help I can get!

Doing web stuff versus truly CPU and GPU intensive operations is different. There's a lot going in TRS19 such as scripts and background processing (threads) that can really work the hardware in addition to the graphics. When T:ANE first came out, GPU temperatures were spiking up to their maximum allowable ranges and this brought on some concern by us users. As the code was refined, and it is much better today than it was, the temps have gone down, but still the hardware, especially the graphics chip, is really, really pushed by this program.

But not to sound like I'm waffling around which I probably am, the point is there are so many things that can cause this problem, and the only way to find out what's causing the problem is to investigate even what appears to be the most innocuous and not to disregard something that doesn't seem possible. This includes removing assumptions and predispositions about hardware, software, systems, and other things. To get to the bottom, and prove that this isn't hardware, we have to check that first before moving on to the next step. In the end it could very well be the program, but as I said we need to check everything before we get there.

With that said, it might be helpful if you can get someone to look at your crash reports, sorry I can't help you with those. It's been too long for me. If this is occurring only in Surveyor, it could be someone else including the specific assets, although no one else has spoken up. It could also be much deeper corruption that requires an extended database repair. On the PC you hold down the CTRL-key while clicking on repair database. I think that's the Option key on the Mac? Try that and see what happens.

My Mac support goes back to that time as well and so does my hardware experience. I was a bench tech at one time and used to repair circuits for video terminals, and early computers, and later supported my family's graphics business later followed by MIS and eventually IT support. In the early 90's they switched from a proprietary typesetting system to desktop publishing and the rest is history. Today it's all different unfortunately.

Thank you for the appreciation. Hopefully we can get to the bottom of this as this is bugging me as well.

 

[1611mac]

Thanks for the kind and detailed report... as info only... I mentioned web work but I do all kinds of work on my Macs including video editing and rendering and also video conversions. (though not a LOT of video conversions.) As I said, I can startup either Mac (cold) and go straight to laying track and get the crash. Computer has hardly had time to heat up. I'm not saying is isn't heat... but immediately on two different machines? Anyway.... I'll crank up some temp reporting utils and see what temps are actually doing. I'll also try the "intensive" db rebuild. Know that I'm open to anything... but temps is not high on my list of possibilities.

It is odd that no other Mac users are reporting this.... I'm wondering how many Mac versions are out there????

Again.. thanks for your expertise and reply. Know that I am greatly enjoying TSR19 Driver, I only wish I had a high end gaming machine so I could crank the graphics up!

 

[dangavel]

What version of Mac osx are you using? I've had some issues in earlier versions of TANE where I had freezes but it only happened when using particular osx versions.
Since its happening on more than one machine I strongly suspect its a bug which is best reported , not many people use Macs (and there the added downside that some non users often are derogatory when you mention you have one ) you probably aren't going to get this sorted on the forum, as I suspect that most Mac users haven't got the firepower to run 2019 and are waiting a while for a stable mac version to be released in the future.

 

[amigacooke]

As a newbie to any version... My first and subsequent experience(s) with creating my first Route was not a fun one. When I go into Surveyor and start placing track TRS19 crashes to desktop. This happens every time I'm in Surveyor placing track. I can't get more than a few track "segments" down before another crash. Makes no difference which style of track I use. Can't even make a simple circle of four 90 deg segments without a crash. Crashes SEEM (?) more frequent if zoomed out, rather than zoomed in.

Other Mac users... are you seeing the same?

(see hardware in sig)

I'm not having a similar experience with macOS TRS19 97429, being able to lay track, then switch to driver to run locomotives over it. I've found that TRS19 runs much better on the same hardware than MacTANE. If I was you, I'd make a bug report and include the logs.

For comparison: Model Name: iMac (27 inch, late 2013), Processor Name: Intel Core i7, Processor Speed: 3.5 GHz, Memory: 16 GB, High Sierra.

 

[1611mac]

I'm not having a similar experience with macOS TRS19 97429, being able to lay track, then switch to driver to run locomotives over it. I've found that TRS19 runs much better on the same hardware than MacTANE. If I was you, I'd make a bug report and include the logs.

For comparison: Model Name: iMac (27 inch, late 2013), Processor Name: Intel Core i7, Processor Speed: 3.5 GHz, Memory: 16 GB, High Sierra.

Updating now to patch 97429.....

 

[IanOHoseason]

For what it’s worth, I have had no problems with my Mac (s) ever. I have had occasional crashes with EA 2019, but nothing like you describe here. I have managed to build an entire new route with it. My only issue is “firepower” even with the 4Gb graphics I had put in. Complex scenes can be a bit jumpy. I await the completed 2019 to see how we go.
MIne is a late 2014 iMac 27”, running Mojave, and I dread the thought of having to have get a PC with a bigger graphics unit so I can get smoother running with the settings maxed. For everything, but TRAINZ, I would never change.
Best wishes
Ian

 

[amigacooke]

Updating now to patch 97429.....

Ah, you found it yourself

 

[amigacooke]

MIne is a late 2014 iMac 27”, running Mojave, and I dread the thought of having to have get a PC with a bigger graphics unit so I can get smoother running with the settings maxed.

Once N3V depreciate OpenGL and run with Metal2 ...

 

[1611mac]

Ah, you found it yourself

Yes... but at the end of the patch update I received this little nastygram... "You can't open the application "Trainz Railroad Simulator 2019.app" because it is not supported on this type of Mac.

 

[1611mac]

I'm not having a similar experience with macOS TRS19 97429, being able to lay track, then switch to driver to run locomotives over it. I've found that TRS19 runs much better on the same hardware than MacTANE. If I was you, I'd make a bug report and include the logs.

For comparison: Model Name: iMac (27 inch, late 2013), Processor Name: Intel Core i7, Processor Speed: 3.5 GHz, Memory: 16 GB, High Sierra.

Ours is same year and both iMacs but yours is i7 and mine i5 processor and mine 3.2GHz but your 3.5. What graphics card is in that Mac?

I just did a "deep rebuild" of my db and I was able to "lay track" more than usual but as soon as I used scroll wheel on mouse to zoom out the app crashed to desktop.

 

[amigacooke]

What graphics card is in that Mac?

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M 4MB

 

[1611mac]

Just to followup:
Trying a quick test only... todays build release 97557 seems to have fixed my "track laying" crashes on both my iMac and MacBook Pro.

 

[amigacooke]

Just to followup:
Trying a quick test only... todays build release 97557 seems to have fixed my "track laying" crashes on both my iMac and MacBook Pro.

Even with your Mac overheating?

 

[1611mac]

Yeah... I monitored temps with a good util... iMac never got into red... never even got into yellow... temps stayed in green. MacBook pro did get into high yellows but never into dangerously high "stop what you are doing" temps. Of course, not running the app while in the sauna may have helped too. Using in the sauna prevents me from having to turn on "Rain" to get rain. I wanted to to a "real" snow sim but I couldn't fit me and the Mac into my refrigerators freezer. And those desert runs..... I keep having to pour sand out of my shoes.