Lost In The Shuffle

K

Kris94

Banned
So after doing some research on the Southern Pacific Railroad with my book I received as a Christmas present, something's not adding up. Have been trying to figure where the railroad went bad in their management which led to their demise but obviously something's not right. I refuse to give up until I know the truth. Sorry if I'm being a bit pushy or acting like a top tier detective in a mind boggling murder case. I guess the only way to really know what it was like working for the SP during their hardships was to be in the board rooms, meeting rooms, etc with the president, CEO, and board of directors and listen to them and take notes, which obviously won't happen and have a list of all their finances, transactions, paperwork, and all that's needed to run a railroad, also never going to happen. Not a railroad mastermind, but doesn't take a railroad CEO, president, vice president, and a group of board of directors, with an associates degree in railroad operations, bachelors, masters, and PhDs in business administration and finance which I'm guessing is highly recommended for those positions to figure this out. Even foamers like me can and should know the basics of running a railroad.
 
I'd imagine it'd be pretty hard. You'd need to secure contracts with customers to pull their stuff, I'd imagine Tracks would need to be heavy enough and safe enough, Trains would need to be kept in a good running condition, wages, train maintainence, government restrictions and everything else. it'd be like a business, but I'd imagine a lot tougher due to the fact you move things

Jamie
 
Well, a lot of things went wrong for the SP from 1970-1985.

1) They heavily invested (spent $) on the wrong items. ex. fuel-guzzling sd-45 compared to more economical sd-40; bought thousands of brand new boxcars when shippers wanted rail-piggyback service instead.

2) The Transportation diverted funds from the railroad to telecommunications~ SPRINT.

3) The railroad spent oodles to lobby for de-regulation of the rr business. When it happened (Staggers-Act); SP was not in position to take advantage of the "new" way of doing business.

4) Too many mountains to cross. The more curves and grades cost more to run a train, and wear out the equipment faster. This is called "operating-ratio." The lower the # equals more profit.

5) Bad weather= washouts, flooding, snow, Derailments and ugly recessions in the early 1980s.

Want to know what it was like to be a VP of SPTCO? Read the first-hand accounts of Mike Ongerth (MDO). He gives us an insider look of what was going wrong with SP.

You don't need to be a member of trainorders to read his stories.
http://www.codeline-telemetry.com/mdcs.htm
 
And they were the only railroad still using semaphore signals in the 1990s with large numbers in active service. And probably the only class I railroad using 40 year old geeps and cadillacs.
 
Kris94 said:
And they were the only railroad still using semaphore signals in the 1990s with large numbers in active service. And probably the only class I railroad using 40 year old geeps and cadillacs.
Click to expand...

I believe Conrail had some semaphores operating into the mid-90's if not later. I think around Blandon, PA. Not in large numbers, though.
 
rgcx said:
Want to know what it was like to be a VP of SPTCO? Read the first-hand accounts of Mike Ongerth (MDO). He gives us an insider look of what was going wrong with SP.

You don't need to be a member of trainorders to read his stories.
http://www.codeline-telemetry.com/mdcs.htm
Click to expand...

BOOKMARKED! I've got to go to work now, but from the very first couple paragraphs I've read, this looks interesting. Thanks for the find.
 
Hey be glad that southern pacific made it as far as they did. Penn Central probably was the shortest mainline railroad to last before getting bought out. Sadly it only lasted 8 years of operations and then Conrail took over which now is in the end owned by Norfolk Southern. What I am trying to say is, for every railroad things can change quick from being the most profit to struggling to the point of no return. This was the cycle of most railroads at that time, merging and going out of business and just because Union Pacific is at the top right now doesn't mean that it can't change fast. I recommend filmming what you can and photograph because, just like how steam disappeared, you never know how long or when your favorite company might go out of business. But the bright side all these railroads companies that died in real life are never forgotten and brought back to life before your eyes in trainzs!
 
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Yes all of this was self-inflicted gunshot wounds. Which makes it all the more frustrating for SP fans and me although I'm much more brash when lashing out but these things were so easily avoidable if they had just made sure everything was up to date, traffic slow was smooth as gravy, operating ratios were as low as possible. Customers were happy and were making partnerships, getting new customers and have adequate motive power which they failed to do. Don't know what they were thinking by putting a GP9 on a 4,000 ton train, or is that an SD7 or SD9? Still that's not good. And I'm surprised SP made it as far as they did, as much as I love sometimes you just have to be honest and true to yourself. And I guess it's true you can't fix stupid which is what management was on the SP. And if you're relying on other trains to give you their rear end helpers aka DPU units to assist you up a hill, jeopardizing their ability to descend down Beaumont Hill as was the link on my post, then you know somethings wrong. It's one thing to require helpers and have them on board at the start or pick them up at a certain point because you need them, but it's pretty pitiful to rely on another train to bail you out, let alone other railroads, i.e. BN, UP, Conrail, CSX(Seaboard System Units), etc. So I think it's safe to say they didn't do their jobs.
 
The death of SP Part II ~the DENIED SP-SF merger

1) Putting aside numerous resources outside the Transportation Co. structure only to be ordered by the ICC to sell it off. Remember, sucessful merger applications need to prove that one railroad would be more beneficial than two railroads. SP lost control of its land, pipelines and other holdings.

2) SP lost key persons as the merger drew closer and when it was denied; those people jumped aboard ATSF.

3) Both BN and UP strongly opposed the merger and it was awhile before rr relations improved. Meaning? No run thru power for SP to use and both railroads dried up the Overland and Shasta Routes. SP formed a closer relationship with DRGW which led to Phase III.

Phase III The DRGW buyout

1) DRGW officers move into top SP positions. A horrible attitude of "This is how we railroad on the Rio Grande and your (SP) way never worked."

2) Lines and yards are closed down. Modoc is shut down and SP routes freights to Roseville then back over Donner (1987-88).

3) They hire a ***clown*** Moyers who begins to rip out mainline in strategic parts (Donner, yanking up sidings on the Shasta too) to use for the double - main tracking in Arizona. Of the near 200 miles of welded rails that was salvaged, less than 50 miles was actually laid. Why? Nearly two-thirds was deemed to be in poor shape and was promptly sent to a reclamation company owned by........(surprise) Moyers.

4) Costly expenditures; Move all dispatchers to Roseville (1988) then move them to Denver (1993); in reality the plan to go to Denver is what the DRGW boyz really wanted in the first place.

5) Duffy St, Seacliff-Ventura, Cantara Loop. Trains don't need to use pushers; Trains can be weighed ater descending Cajon; Empty cars can be placed on the front of the train with no worries; Haz-Mat cars never derail. (These are the thoughts of DRGW management regarding concerns of the old way "SP").

~Sigh~
 
You're making me believe you worked for the railroad. I don't get the SPSF merger either. Didn't make sense. A chihuahua could've known that it wouldn't go through. Maybe if it were the mid 1800s before the year 1890 then it would've probably worked since it was the turn of the century when the gov't clamped down on monoploies. Also was Moyer the multi-billionaire that was running the DRGW or was that someone else? I'm confused about the Roseville/Denver dispatcher ordeal.
 
Actually the merger did seem like it would go through. Hence why you even had the SPSF paint scheme for a little bit. Southern Pacific failed to adapt to the changing climate, its failed mergers was definitely the nail in the coffin.
 
Was it true that the SBC put SP as the surviving company? They did change it to UP on grounds of better brand recognition. Other than seeing SP all the time, what would've been if the SP actually was the surviving company.
 
I always heard it was an SP board of directors thing. They wanted UP to buy them, but again, that's just what I heard.

Cheers

AJ
 
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