Yeah, I think you should have "really shut up now." As you are being quite ridiculous in the statements you are coming out with, would a bit of respect and common courtesy be too much for you to handle? as that is all the Author is normally asking for.
lord9 - again
- Thread starter kenneth18278
- Start date
Yeah, I think you should have "really shut up now." As you are being quite ridiculous in the statements you are coming out with, would a bit of respect and common courtesy be too much for you to handle? as that is all the Author is normally asking for.
Thats a bit harsh .. I think that Lataxe has made some valid points about the differences between "free" software and "freeware" as well as highlighting that different creators will have different views on whether or not they can (or should) control what happens to their work after it has been released.
kenneth18278
Member
OK, when I started this thread I did not expect the response, or for it to go on for so long. I've read through it all just now, and it seems to have gone in directions I did not anticipate, some of them not really having much to do with the original post. Still, so be it. I find myself agreeing in principle to many of the opinions posted, and disagreeing outright with very few (even though many are contradictory, they have valid points to make).
It seems to me, from what I have read that there is no easy or obvious solution to illegitimate uploads as the validation, and confirmation from original creators, would at the very least be inordinately time consuming, if not totally impossible. So it remains an insoluble problem.
I think it's time this thread was put to bed.
It seems to me, from what I have read that there is no easy or obvious solution to illegitimate uploads as the validation, and confirmation from original creators, would at the very least be inordinately time consuming, if not totally impossible. So it remains an insoluble problem.
I think it's time this thread was put to bed.
I would say, someone was far too lenient with him, if he cannot respect other peoples wishes.
So, Shane....do you think Russia is still a communist state?
I had the same thoughts but couldn't put it in words sufficiently tactful.
Sourdough, Shane's comment was not that Russia is still communist, but merely that attitudes from their history are probably still very well alive.
I had the same thoughts but couldn't put it in words sufficiently tactful.
Sourdough, Shane's comment was not that Russia is still communist, but merely that attitudes from their history are probably still very well alive.
As you will know, having assiduously read all my posts and those of others in the thread, I don't disrespect the creators of Trainz content. This is a discussion concerning the matter of copyright in general and cloning or copying of Trainz assets to the DLS in particular. Personally I'm exceedingly grateful to those who create Trainz assets, including those who would rather not have them on the DLS and those who make payware (which I pay for as required and do not myself pass on to anyone else). I am a law-abiding citizen.
But this doesn't mean I can't, in the fine democratic tradition you grim-faced lads seem to have forgotten, discuss the underpinning to such laws and whether they are entirely sensible, reasonable or otherwise worthy. Still, if you are so very, very certain of your own righteousness, who am I to deny you a pitchfork and your cries for a gag to be found?
Lataxe
Way I see it, if you want your own "sensible, reasonable or otherwise worthy" laws, come up with your own. Apart from that, it's the creator's stuff and he can do as he pleases with it. It is very simple; if you are not satisfied with such conditions, the consensus - all over the world - has been to not use the product.
cascaderailroad
New member
I would do it for free, as an unpaid employee ... just for N3V ... I would continually wade through 250,000 uploaded files, checking them, viewing them, and grading them on a scale of 1-10 ... "POO" being a "0" ... REJECT
Some routes would never see the DLS, as they are totally absurd, with warped trackage more curvey than any trolly line, looking more like from the SIM's, Minecraft, or RR Tycoon video game.
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Mr 99,
The point about laws is that they only work if everyone agrees to use them, so no point "coming up with your own" is there? Of course, in certain libertarian-minded countries this is exactly what some lads do, resulting in that rampant individualism and war of all against all that we see, instead of real politics. Perhaps this is why you are so sensitive on the matter?
No, I prefer to obey the local "laws", including the existing copyright laws in force here within Trainz and elsewhere. No illegal downloading or copying of music or films for me! (Or Trainz stuff).
But you seem to be under the delusion that these laws are some kind of physics - immutable and universal like the law of gravity. Of course they're not. We humans made them and can go on remaking them, if enough of a consensus is reached requiring that they say something different. This is called "change"; perhaps you are unfamiliar with the notion, in which case I recommend that you read your Heraclitus.
Personally I would like the copyright laws to change to better reflect the whole human condition, rather than the monopolistic avarice of the few. No doubt this makes me a pink-livered something-or-other in your eyes; but if I put these alternative memes before you they might eventually take root and you will come to your senses.
Of course, my reasoning may be flawed, in which case feel free to take it apart. Pretending the status quo is not only correct but unchangeable is not very convincing, though.
Lataxe
I admire your enthusiasm and ambition but I seriously doubt that one person could ever hope to thoroughly check more than a few new assets each day. So you are going to check every .tga, .bmp and .jpg file looking for copies and even copies with "minor" alterations. Presumably you are going to do the same with all the lines of scripted code, the audio files and the meshes. Would replacing the original thumbnail image with a "No Thumbnail" graphic be enough to throw you off the scent?
It seems that you are also going to judge each asset with an as yet undisclosed set of criteria - you in effect will be judge, jury and executioner. That worries me Mr Cascaderailroad. I know nothing of your values but suspect that you may not be interested in hearing of other people's values - my apologies if I have misjudged you.
The more I read of this nonsense the more I am convinced that N3V's position, however flawed, of waiting until the original author contacts them with evidence of plagiarism is the correct one - and infinitely better than the alternative you have proposed.
Mr 99,
The point about laws is that they only work if everyone agrees to use them, so no point "coming up with your own" is there? Of course, in certain libertarian-minded countries this is exactly what some lads do, resulting in that rampant individualism and war of all against all that we see, instead of real politics. Perhaps this is why you are so sensitive on the matter?
No, I prefer to obey the local "laws", including the existing copyright laws in force here within Trainz and elsewhere. No illegal downloading or copying of music or films for me! (Or Trainz stuff).
But you seem to be under the delusion that these laws are some kind of physics - immutable and universal like the law of gravity. Of course they're not. We humans made them and can go on remaking them, if enough of a consensus is reached requiring that they say something different. This is called "change"; perhaps you are unfamiliar with the notion, in which case I recommend that you read your Heraclitus.
Personally I would like the copyright laws to change to better reflect the whole human condition, rather than the monopolistic avarice of the few. No doubt this makes me a pink-livered something-or-other in your eyes; but if I put these alternative memes before you they might eventually take root and you will come to your senses.
Of course, my reasoning may be flawed, in which case feel free to take it apart. Pretending the status quo is not only correct but unchangeable is not very convincing, though.
Lataxe
You'd deserve more attention to your views if they were not riddled with personal attacks. As it is, various members have already had this discussion with you, I will not be the next. Feel free to continue being priestly, righteous and an enlightenment to all of mankind.
Re: thread topic, at the end of the day it is up to N3V to do what they deem fit with the DLS, a cornerstone and integral part of Trainz. If they feel it is appropriate for it to be inundated with unauthorized cloned copies by pirates, who are we to say otherwise? All I do is add lord9 to my growing "AND NOT / USER" CMP filter.
I am done here.
Mr Truck,
Patience is a virtue, especially if being so allows you to both understand the viewpoints of others and perhaps rehearse your own in reply. You might change your mind or you might not, feeling more secure in your own viewpoint for having explained it to not just the likes of me but also to yourself.
I am being argumentative. I have always seen it as virtue, since close-mindedness seems such a vice ... argumentative "for the heaven of it", if you like. Such discussions are what increase our understanding and are the basis of civilisation. Or would you prefer a Divinely Right Tyrant rather than a Parliament to lay down & enforce the rules?
It does worry me that fellows such as you and Mr 99, to mention but two, feel that having your adamant viewpoint examined or questioned is what Mr 99 calls "a personal attack". How on earth do you survive in the world, being so sensitive to notions that are unfamiliar? Surely you would be better to refute my arguments with some of your own, rather than doing a Duchess of Pout and marching off in a huff, perhaps to report me to the Chief Dogmatist somewhere?
There, Mr 99 can hoot even louder now about how I have insulted your personages, even though I have merely looked askance at his & your copyright memeplex and questioned the effectiveness of your sulk.
Lataxe
Yeah i get along in the world ok thanks muchly and i did not march off in a huff or report you to anyone, I have given you my view on the topic here as have other's but you still post your argument which i'm not interested in, To me content creator's should be able to do with their content as they wish without the worry of having it cloned by lazy people theft is theft. Maybe this coming weekend when i can get drunk i'll come back and argue with you sum more.
Mr Lataxe, while I support your right to present your point of view and some of your points have been valid, well argued and have provided a different insight to the problem, I feel that arguing simply for the sake of being argumentative (your last post), is not contributing to the discussion and has, IMHO, tarnished your previous arguments. There are people on both sides of this debate who can never be convinced by any weight of argument nor will they be ever likely to change their minds in the future. Continuation of this argument is simply leading the thread into personal attacks and a flame war and, mercifully, will mean that the moderator will hopefully soon close it down - now would be a good time.
I second this. Its bad enough for someone to do it once, let alone multiple times. And, as a content appreciator, I don't care how much people want something I skinned/modded for personal use-if its down in the license that you can't release without permission then the reskin/mod stays personal regardless of the amount of "Can/will you ever release this?", no matter if a screenie is posted or not.
ZecMurphy
Community Assistant
Good Morning All
I can state categorically that what Vern is talking about will never happen.
You are saying that, anyone who has uploaded without permission gets a perma ban. I know MANY people who made a mistake by uploading an item without permission when they were new. They've since gone on to be very well known and respected creators in the Trainz community, or sections there of. Not going to name them, as this is between them, the creator, and N3V.
You are also demanding that we act without requiring the creator confirm with us the content was uploaded without permission. Or without us actually finding out if the uploader got permission and the author has decided to withdraw this for what ever reason (I should point out that I have had this happen to me, albeit before I released the content - spent 2 years working on content with permission and then had the original creator decide I no longer had permission; spent another 2 years completely rebuilding the locomotive to ensure it was fully my own or had components that I did have permission for).
Well, how would you feel if someone decided you uploaded something without permission. Say, one of your routes. They tell us "I believe Vern has uploaded route XX without permission from the authro". So, now we perma ban you. No second chance, no appeal - block you serial number and you're outta here. No need to worry about the facts, or if the content was yours or not. Someone has reported you for uploading content without permission, so that's it you are gone.
Sorry, but this won't work. Ever.
Nor will the perma-ban idea, where if you make a mistake (or simply don't understand at the time, as is most often the case; apart from the 3 or 4 'mass' uploaders who we have dealt with previously - and I note that still no one has actually contacted the helpdesk regarding the user Lord9...), you get perma banned.
Regards
I can state categorically that what Vern is talking about will never happen.
You are saying that, anyone who has uploaded without permission gets a perma ban. I know MANY people who made a mistake by uploading an item without permission when they were new. They've since gone on to be very well known and respected creators in the Trainz community, or sections there of. Not going to name them, as this is between them, the creator, and N3V.
You are also demanding that we act without requiring the creator confirm with us the content was uploaded without permission. Or without us actually finding out if the uploader got permission and the author has decided to withdraw this for what ever reason (I should point out that I have had this happen to me, albeit before I released the content - spent 2 years working on content with permission and then had the original creator decide I no longer had permission; spent another 2 years completely rebuilding the locomotive to ensure it was fully my own or had components that I did have permission for).
Well, how would you feel if someone decided you uploaded something without permission. Say, one of your routes. They tell us "I believe Vern has uploaded route XX without permission from the authro". So, now we perma ban you. No second chance, no appeal - block you serial number and you're outta here. No need to worry about the facts, or if the content was yours or not. Someone has reported you for uploading content without permission, so that's it you are gone.
Sorry, but this won't work. Ever.
Nor will the perma-ban idea, where if you make a mistake (or simply don't understand at the time, as is most often the case; apart from the 3 or 4 'mass' uploaders who we have dealt with previously - and I note that still no one has actually contacted the helpdesk regarding the user Lord9...), you get perma banned.
Regards
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