jr signalled route?
- Thread starter Ghost42
- Start date
norfolksouthern37
what's a normal map?
I don't think so, but the Mojave Sub in TS12 is using JR signals.
What exactly are you looking for?
What exactly are you looking for?
So far with signalling I have used semaphore signalling on UK steam routes and the USA signals on others.
These can be thrown on a system without too much thought, 01-02,03- 04,05. Straightforward.
But a search regarding jr signals tells me I need to know what I am doing.
Seeing them in practice seems to be the way forward.
norfolksouthern37
what's a normal map?
I see.
I designed these signals so that you have to do a minimal amount of configuration to use them. The only real configurations have to be done with complex interlockings (08 signals) as it is pretty much impossible to predict them automatically. There are a few constants in the numbering of the signals and all you really need is some basic knowledge of real US signal practice to have them work
signal type use
03 absolute with slow aspect
04 absolute
05 permissive
06 2-head diverging
07 2-head converging
08 3-head interlocking
more to follow...
I designed these signals so that you have to do a minimal amount of configuration to use them. The only real configurations have to be done with complex interlockings (08 signals) as it is pretty much impossible to predict them automatically. There are a few constants in the numbering of the signals and all you really need is some basic knowledge of real US signal practice to have them work
signal type use
03 absolute with slow aspect
04 absolute
05 permissive
06 2-head diverging
07 2-head converging
08 3-head interlocking
more to follow...
There are three routes available for download on my website that use JR's signals exclusively. The Cumberland to Harpers Ferry, which is a rather large route, the Murrysville & Western, and the Gorre & Daphetid, both of which are much smaller routes. You'll also find a tutorial on signaling, which I originally found very useful.
Click on my sig below to access the route pages.
Joe
Click on my sig below to access the route pages.
Joe
norfolksouthern37
what's a normal map?
so far 07s are unreleased in all versions. these are typically a 2 head signal with the top head being a permanent red.
I've been using the JR signals almost exclusively for a few years now, they're pretty nice. As NS37 said, there is little configuration to them, primarily the 06 and 08's where you can set up the "straight" path for interlockings so it knows when to show a full clear vs a diverging signal.
I could see the 07's being more prototypical for converging really only with the Safetran versions (C-Light and NS) where a real-world signal of these would only have the red aspect on the top as he said - for a permanent red. While I would like to see these for my routes I can live with it since the 06's work just as well assuming you set up the "clear" as an impossible path - for a converge where the turnout would have to be "left" to line for the siding you set the clear path as "right" so it either shows the "diverging" signal or full red (since the line would terminate). I think the old NSW signal set had these options but weren't proto for US routes so while I played with them on my early "play" routes I wouldn't have wanted to use them for my routes now even if they were still available.
The only real confusion I ran across was the difference of approach signals between the searchlights and the safetrans - one I believe is labeled as an 06 Approach and the other is unnumbered Approach/Distant or something like that. I don't have Trainz open at the moment so I'm not sure which is which, but I remember stressing that I couldn't find an approach option for one of them at one point until I realized the labeling was different.
I do wish the searchlights had an option for small targets, but these small targets were really only used (as far as I'm aware) by the New York Central, and I think maybe even only on the old Water Level Route, not system-wide, so I can understand why there wouldn't be a need for them and again I can make do without them, I'm sure I'm the only person who would even notice.
I could see the 07's being more prototypical for converging really only with the Safetran versions (C-Light and NS) where a real-world signal of these would only have the red aspect on the top as he said - for a permanent red. While I would like to see these for my routes I can live with it since the 06's work just as well assuming you set up the "clear" as an impossible path - for a converge where the turnout would have to be "left" to line for the siding you set the clear path as "right" so it either shows the "diverging" signal or full red (since the line would terminate). I think the old NSW signal set had these options but weren't proto for US routes so while I played with them on my early "play" routes I wouldn't have wanted to use them for my routes now even if they were still available.
The only real confusion I ran across was the difference of approach signals between the searchlights and the safetrans - one I believe is labeled as an 06 Approach and the other is unnumbered Approach/Distant or something like that. I don't have Trainz open at the moment so I'm not sure which is which, but I remember stressing that I couldn't find an approach option for one of them at one point until I realized the labeling was different.
I do wish the searchlights had an option for small targets, but these small targets were really only used (as far as I'm aware) by the New York Central, and I think maybe even only on the old Water Level Route, not system-wide, so I can understand why there wouldn't be a need for them and again I can make do without them, I'm sure I'm the only person who would even notice.
I only use JR signals on my routes. The are very easy to use and look really awesome.
@ctclark1 - the small targets were/are on the Boston and Maine as well. I noticed this too, but for me it's close enough and they work extremely well. It appears that the signals that NS37 created are based on those on the old Seaboard System.
I agree too that it's difficult to tell the difference between the Approach/Distant, and the 06 Approach signal. Then again I'm not that familiar with the SafTran signals anyway so I wouldn't know.
John
@ctclark1 - the small targets were/are on the Boston and Maine as well. I noticed this too, but for me it's close enough and they work extremely well. It appears that the signals that NS37 created are based on those on the old Seaboard System.
I agree too that it's difficult to tell the difference between the Approach/Distant, and the 06 Approach signal. Then again I'm not that familiar with the SafTran signals anyway so I wouldn't know.
John
norfolksouthern37
what's a normal map?
well the 06D (that i failed to mention above) is really only different in that it reads ahead to the next signal and is not an absolute, so the 06D simply goes ahead of an 06, 07 or 08.
I know I need to get a new version out with a few more signals but I am always busy with something else entirely. The new ones will have approach lit 'channels' to light a group of signals when one of the group senses a train approaching it. The 06s will also have ability to mimic unbonded track for sidings or entry into yards (that is, the appropriate head will not display track occupancy as that track is not part of the circuit). The fore mentioned 07 signals will be there. I just don't know when yet.
I know I need to get a new version out with a few more signals but I am always busy with something else entirely. The new ones will have approach lit 'channels' to light a group of signals when one of the group senses a train approaching it. The 06s will also have ability to mimic unbonded track for sidings or entry into yards (that is, the appropriate head will not display track occupancy as that track is not part of the circuit). The fore mentioned 07 signals will be there. I just don't know when yet.
When I got into Trainz in 2005 my first big frustration was the fact that the available signals didn't work or communicate with each other and didn't protect you from opposing traffic. I guess I was expecting too much, but it was disappointing because I'm kind of a signal buff. Then about a year or two later Justin came out with the searchlights that really worked as a signal should and the rest is history.
Thank you Justin.
This is not arequest, but the sad truth of what happens when a searchlight signal does not eat his or her vegetables. The explanationis below.
Before the UP sold the branch line to Walla Walla, Washington to a short line operator, there used to be a dual control switch just west of the siding switch which connected to the Walla Walla branch line to the left via another dual control switch. It then remained under CTC control all the way out to Zanger Jct. where the old NP branch line to Pendleton diverged. Thus the need of a dual head signal for the siding to mainline to the junction switch.
All of the branch line connecting tracks were reconfigured to the UP mainline after the sale and they are not dual controlled switches. I did find it odd the lower signal head was not removed at that time since the main line WB home signal's lower signal head was removed.
The dwarf signal has since been replaced with a single 3 light signal head aspart of the UP's signal replacement project for the area.
RC Ballou
Thank you Justin.
This is not arequest, but the sad truth of what happens when a searchlight signal does not eat his or her vegetables. The explanationis below.
Before the UP sold the branch line to Walla Walla, Washington to a short line operator, there used to be a dual control switch just west of the siding switch which connected to the Walla Walla branch line to the left via another dual control switch. It then remained under CTC control all the way out to Zanger Jct. where the old NP branch line to Pendleton diverged. Thus the need of a dual head signal for the siding to mainline to the junction switch.
All of the branch line connecting tracks were reconfigured to the UP mainline after the sale and they are not dual controlled switches. I did find it odd the lower signal head was not removed at that time since the main line WB home signal's lower signal head was removed.
The dwarf signal has since been replaced with a single 3 light signal head aspart of the UP's signal replacement project for the area.
RC Ballou
I'm not entirely sure what your asking, are you asking about making converging routes show an aspect other than clear (G/R/R)? Something more prototypical would be R/G/R or Y/Y/R or any number of variations depending on the turnout speed and track conditions ahead. In most cases, with more complex junctions, a clear would only be shown if the route was lined for an absolutely straight path from beginning to end. This is why the setup for JR's 08's and 06's has that request. From the direction you would be travelling facing the signal, you would setup the direction of each junction needed to produce that straight line. Anything else that results in a valid path through would show a reduced aspect. Anything that is not a valid path would obviously show a stop unless you have multiple signals set up in the junction, which is generally unprototypical and unnecessary (even with dumb AI).
Remember that switch direction for setting this path becomes "backwards" for converging lines. That is, Trainz looks at the signal from the direction of the diverge, always and reports it this way. So when setting up the straight path you need to remember to look at these switches from the opposite direction of the path to get the proper setting.
Getting more into what I think is the heart of your question (I hope) is the lines that end at the converge (the end of a passing siding, perhaps) when setting up these routes you would want to set the signal to read the straight path as the main route, even though your signal is on the siding. The signal will read the completed path as valid but see that switch directions indicate not a straight path, therefore giving a reduced something to clear signal (R/G or R/Y, depending on conditions as said before).
I'll try to give some examples instead of going to bed, but that's ok because I'm not overly tired which is odd considering I've been awake for 32 of the last 36 hours.
I'll start basic, you've all seen this before and are probably wondering why I'd bother showing it, but anyway... Consider the following route:
Set all three signals (could be 08's but since it is simple we'll say 06, but either would work) for a straight path of "R". Presuming all other lines are clear, Train at signal B, lined for A, B would show G/R. Same with train at A lined for B. But a train at B lined for C would show R/G (or Restricted [to] Clear) meaning take the turnout at restricted speed then resume speed once clear of the junction. The same would be true for train at C lined for B. Obviously if the switch was against the train at C (set Right) it would still see R/R since there is no valid path, even though we've set the "straight line" as right. Here's the important part though. If you don't look at the junction "backwards" (from the diverging direction) when setting up signal C and set it for L instead, it would instead indicate G/R (All clear) for the C train and the train would go through the 15mph turnout at 60mph and probably fly off the tracks.
I'll try another more complicated one. My apologies if this gets wordy.
This one gets tricky. I've named the junctions too just to help. Assume all are 08's, but again 06's could work. Straight paths would be:
A = LR (again, remember to look at BD from the diverging direction)
B = RL
C = LLRR
D = RRLL
E = LRR
F = RRL
G and H = anything other than L (this would probably be more like an 06 in the real world, in actuality it would be closer, I think, to the previously mentioned 07's if referring to color lights since the aspect would always be red over something. Also I've not tested, but if you set it to RR it might display a lower aspect if DF is set left, don't quote me on that)
I = anything other than R.
I'll skip the straight through examples, those should be obvious. A to B gets G/R if AC is left and BD is right, yadda yadda... But now, let's say the train at D is lined to go to A, so AC is right, it will therefore get the restricted to clear signal (R/G) indicating it is switching tracks. Similarly, with G lined for anything (H, B, D, or F), because GE MUST be lined left (again remember "backwards") it will always receive a restricted signal to proceed, regardless of whether it is going to F or crossing all the way to H.
Train at I destined for any route similarly would get the R/G with AI lined right, even if it was then lined for H at BH, because it must traverse the switches.
Probably a lot more indepth than needed, but does that make sense for converges? Or did I just confuse you more?
Here's the TL;DR: The setups for the signals are done in order from nearest to farthest, but remember to always take direction looking at the diverging directions. Signals for converging routes with no actual straight path should be setup so that the opposite route would be the "straight" as these signals would have no "straight". And one last thought, when using JR's 06 signals, it doesn't actually matter if you use the LD or RD versions, as you can set them either way - it only comes out preset for one or the other but you can always change it or add more switches to get that straight route.
Remember that switch direction for setting this path becomes "backwards" for converging lines. That is, Trainz looks at the signal from the direction of the diverge, always and reports it this way. So when setting up the straight path you need to remember to look at these switches from the opposite direction of the path to get the proper setting.
Getting more into what I think is the heart of your question (I hope) is the lines that end at the converge (the end of a passing siding, perhaps) when setting up these routes you would want to set the signal to read the straight path as the main route, even though your signal is on the siding. The signal will read the completed path as valid but see that switch directions indicate not a straight path, therefore giving a reduced something to clear signal (R/G or R/Y, depending on conditions as said before).
I'll try to give some examples instead of going to bed, but that's ok because I'm not overly tired which is odd considering I've been awake for 32 of the last 36 hours.
I'll start basic, you've all seen this before and are probably wondering why I'd bother showing it, but anyway... Consider the following route:
Code:
[I]A[/I]--------------------[I]B[/I]
/
[I]C[/I]---------I'll try another more complicated one. My apologies if this gets wordy.
Code:
[I]I[/I]--- -------[I]H[/I]
\([U]AI[/U]) /([U]BH[/U])
[I]A[/I]-------------------------------[I]B[/I]
\([U]AC[/U]) /([U]BD[/U])
[I]C[/I]-------------------------------[I]D[/I]
\([U]CE[/U]) / ([U]DF[/U])
[I]E[/I]-------------------------------[I]F[/I]
/([U]GE[/U])
[I]G[/I]-------------This one gets tricky. I've named the junctions too just to help. Assume all are 08's, but again 06's could work. Straight paths would be:
A = LR (again, remember to look at BD from the diverging direction)
B = RL
C = LLRR
D = RRLL
E = LRR
F = RRL
G and H = anything other than L (this would probably be more like an 06 in the real world, in actuality it would be closer, I think, to the previously mentioned 07's if referring to color lights since the aspect would always be red over something. Also I've not tested, but if you set it to RR it might display a lower aspect if DF is set left, don't quote me on that)
I = anything other than R.
I'll skip the straight through examples, those should be obvious. A to B gets G/R if AC is left and BD is right, yadda yadda... But now, let's say the train at D is lined to go to A, so AC is right, it will therefore get the restricted to clear signal (R/G) indicating it is switching tracks. Similarly, with G lined for anything (H, B, D, or F), because GE MUST be lined left (again remember "backwards") it will always receive a restricted signal to proceed, regardless of whether it is going to F or crossing all the way to H.
Train at I destined for any route similarly would get the R/G with AI lined right, even if it was then lined for H at BH, because it must traverse the switches.
Probably a lot more indepth than needed, but does that make sense for converges? Or did I just confuse you more?
Here's the TL;DR: The setups for the signals are done in order from nearest to farthest, but remember to always take direction looking at the diverging directions. Signals for converging routes with no actual straight path should be setup so that the opposite route would be the "straight" as these signals would have no "straight". And one last thought, when using JR's 06 signals, it doesn't actually matter if you use the LD or RD versions, as you can set them either way - it only comes out preset for one or the other but you can always change it or add more switches to get that straight route.