Integrate a DEM Tool Into Trainz ALREADY

[trainman53]

It beats me after looking at bunches of threads started over the years on this forum about generating DEM maps, why doesn't Auran Integrate a DEM Tool Into the Trainz program ALREADY. All the convoluted steps to create an elevation map, not just anyone can sit for hours trying to sort all this out, the different versions of MicroDem and Trainz, dozens of people developing "their" way to do it, it's ridiculous. Basically the Topology tools in trainz suck (totally), I mean they can't be any more BASIC than they are already. You can sit there and generate the lamest, featureless and unrealistic topology all day long. Is it a wonder that the trainz community is forced to use third party "tools". Auran should have taken a cue a long time ago and made this program the true jewel it can potentially be. I know this will fall on DEAF ears, but at least I put in my 2 cents..................

 

[Dermmy]

Not what you want to hear, but there is already a workable free system and an absolutely superb payware product. Not exactly sure why you don't expect a built-in tool to require that you 'sit for hours' - click a button and produce exactly the .00000001% of the world's surface that you want?

When it comes to how a boutique company spends their development dollar on a product aimed at a tiny market, duplicating already-available 3rd party software ain't even on my list....

 

[Gandalf0444]

I disagree entirely, Auran should spend some time to come up with a built in program that will automatically acquire the DEMs you need(say a DEM from NYC to New Haven, CT) then automatically take that information and "slide" it onto a baseboard or group of them in this case.
Every DEM is made up of colors and each color represents a certain elevation. So it could be done that it would just read the colors from the color charts that the USGS provide to read the elevation data and make the elevation that way, would it be 100% correct? No as having the ability to account for every color across the rainbow would be impossible, but would it give general landscaping? Yes. It would be no better or worse then the most detailed DEM maps that are still VERY wrong in a lot of areas....such as a giant mountain where there is no such thing. I would rather have a route with semi true landscaping that looks nice and pleasing to the eye, then one that has none at all, or terrain that just makes you gouge your eyes out because of how terrible it is.

 

[geophil]

Every DEM is made up of colors and each color represents a certain elevation.

Most interesting. I didn't know that.

 

[itareus]

Most interesting. I didn't know that.

LOL :hehe:

 

[Vern]

I would rather N3V devoted programmer time working out how to get splines to draw ready made frogs and checkrails at points, or put in a timetable editor, (or the other 1001 bugs/wishes on the to do list) than native DEM importation which is most adequately (and elegantly) catered for by Transdem or the other method.

 

[PortlandBill]

Whilst I don't agree with the OP I do believe there is a need for a better landscaping tool set within the simulation. It is very difficult to produce custom tunnels, embankments, cuttings and flat but not level surfaces.

Steve

 

[Gandalf0444]

You would be surprised that people would have no idea...There is also greyscale and some people would argue that that isn't color as well....

 

[itareus]

...Whilst I don't agree with the OP I do believe there is a need for a better landscaping tool set within the simulation...

That is a sensible suggestion.

 

[AntonyVW]

Whilst I don't agree with the OP I do believe there is a need for a better landscaping tool set within the simulation. It is very difficult to produce custom tunnels, embankments, cuttings and flat but not level surfaces.

Steve

Im not sure if having a dem creator built in would be the answer but I certainly do agree that we need improved tools in landscaping. Not sure if it would be possible but maybe something that would allow us to lay down an outline of a hill and its contours but when clicking on the button that raises/lowers the landscape to match it - it gives properly deformed hills not the stepped items we usually get.

Also not sure if its already been done by our more experienced builders - but maybe some tutorial technics showing us how to create the landscapes that we see on the more professional routes. Things like why and how they use invisible tracks - controlling the form of the hills - use of appropriate textures etc

 

[Dermmy]

You would be surprised that people would have no idea...There is also greyscale and some people would argue that that isn't color as well....

In your first post you are thinking of the chroma colours that MicroDEM CONVERTS DeM data too. The DEM itself does not work that way, it has no 'colours'. Chroma colours is the quick easy (almost cheat) way to transpose DEM data into a form that can be then translated into Trainz elevations. If the 'built-in-tool' works like that you have simply replicated the MicroDem/HOG method with all it's failings.

On the other hand if it works line TransDEM and gives perfect results by definition it won't use chroma colours! So let's agree that "Every DEM is made up of colors and each color represents a certain elevation" is a misstatement.

Of course if it works like TransDEM it would be about impossible to replicate as a one-click in-game terrain maker, so you are asking the Trainz development crew to take time away from the core functionality of the sim to develop a stand-alone program that replicates something that already exists.

Changing the subject back to the original, What folks just don't get is the passion, drive and determination it takes to complete a route in Trainz. If that passion isn't burning hot enough right at the start to shell out a few bucks on TransDEM (or master HOG,MicroDEM) then imho the chances of the route ever getting finished after the lazy,easy, one-click terrain maker is about zero. Which makes the quick, easy terrain maker a pointless addition.....

 

[JCitron]

I agree with Andy and Vern on this. There is a great tool already made for this called TransDem. Why would N3V want to reinvent the wheel when something like this already exists? As Vern says, I too would rather see the development team focus on fixing the gazillion bugs and improve the product we already have.

@AnthonyVW - You have an interesting idea. This is similar to how WorldBuilder from Digital Element works. This is a landscape generating program that uses a mesh object to create the surface. The user draws a wireframe outline of the landscape and the in between mesh parts are then filled in, creating the surface. See www.digi-element.com for more information on this. I have this program and have used it for advertisements in the past. There is an animation capability built-in but it is very, very slow without a render farm.

John

 

[clam1952]

Changing the subject back to the original, What folks just don't get is the passion, drive and determination it takes to complete a route in Trainz. If that passion isn't burning hot enough right at the start to shell out a few bucks on TransDEM (or master HOG,MicroDEM) then imho the chances of the route ever getting finished after the lazy,easy, one-click terrain maker is about zero. Which makes the quick, easy terrain maker a pointless addition.....

You could add as well as all the above you need a degree of artistic abilty, patience and on occasions some inginuity to create a realistic route, whatever method you use to create the terrain. It can be done with the inbuilt tools, but you need a gentle artistic touch, not turn everything up to max. You may well need those skills, even with a dem, as they are not that accurate and may need some adjustment.

 

[JCitron]

You could add as well as all the above you need a degree of artistic abilty, patience and on occasions some inginuity to create a realistic route, whatever method you use to create the terrain. It can be done with the inbuilt tools, but you need a gentle artistic touch, not turn everything up to max. You may well need those skills even with a dem as they are not that accurate and may need some adjustment.

This is spot on, Malc.

Everything in nature is subtle. The hills aren't all mountains and ravines aren't all giant canyons. Slight turns of the dials and lots of patience are needed to get the landscaping right.

John

 

[Lots_Trains]

My 2 cents worth

What is a matter with TransDEM ??, It would be hard to better TransDEM

1. its cheap

2. its so easy to use.

3. Its customer support is outstanding obsolutly outstanding

4. Always keen to add new features

5. N3V could never I mean NEVER!! do it as good as TransDEM

6. its cheap

7. its cheap

Cheers

Lots

 

[Vern]

+1 on what Malc said. If you are intent on producing a lengthy route, you have got to be in it for the long haul - maybe 5 or 6 months on just that project. One reason why I don't create long routes any more but prefer to work on shorter more compact projects lasting (maybe) eight to ten weeks. Far too often I have started the 100 mile behomoth route (not just in TZ but the other sims too) only to have it falter and die after creating the terrain and laying the track, at the thought of all those long weeks placing textures and model assets.

In fact, rather than built in DEM support, I would rather N3V figured out some means of implementing autogen scenery to save route builders valuable time - though that's really a discussion for another thread.

 

[JCitron]

Vern I agree with you on this too. My big mega-route has fallen to the wayside for quite some time due to this. I started importing DEMs to fill in sections because I liked the terrain and how everything fit in with the rest of my route. These sections are still barren and I've maybe landscaped a few baseboards on them. The reason is the same as yours. I get into the route, and lose my enthusiasm. My brain gets tired almost instantly and I feel like I did when I used to mow my lawn or rake the grass. So instead of working on the big route, I too have some smaller projects in the works.

When and if N3V ever fixes the merge function, I may go back to my mega-route. With the merge working, I can work on smaller sections and then import them complete. I did this before and the route building process was a lot more enjoyable.

John

 

[backyard]

If you build it no one finishes...

Even if Trainz incorporated a DEM download function you would still only see routes finished by the dedicated few already established as Route Creators.

There would be thousands of routes on the DLS that were started and never even brought to the point of supporting a train...

Having a group of experienced mapping techs keeping up with current trends produces a quality product.

 

[PEV]

Even if Trainz incorporated a DEM download function you would still only see routes finished by the dedicated few already established as Route Creators.

There would be thousands of routes on the DLS that were started and never even brought to the point of supporting a train...

Yes, exactly as we have now..

Having a group of experienced mapping techs keeping up with current trends produces a quality product.

It just amazes me the number of posts we have here of some enthusiastic person starting a mega route, that never gets finished..

It's hard work. I did a 20 baseboard route and it took months.. and I'm still not completely happy with it...

 

[narrowgauge]

When we built the Darjeeling Himalayan Railway route it took a team of six three years, admittedly we made all the content as well. We were very happy and relieved when it was finally completed.

Peter