If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

johnwhelan said:
Not all payware is high quality, not all freeware is low quality and many freeware items have a lot more time, effort and expertise put into them than some payware items.
Click to expand...

I agree 100% with that statement. I should have made that more clear in my post.

johnwhelan said:
I have noticed that many Americans find this difficult to accept, they seem to think if you don't pay for something it must be rubbish.

Cheerio John
Click to expand...

Now that is not fair. Believe me, bit torrent streams are not a foreign concept to Americans. :hehe: In fact (and I am not really saying this, so mods and Auran staffers stop reading) I got my first "demo" of trainz (2006) from said source. It later inspired me to purchased 2009 and 2010. :o

I guess what it comes down to... all of you who desire to complain about the cost of payware can go download gmax, Trainz Asset Creation Studio, and GIMP for FREE and start making your own assets and all you will have to spend is YOUR time.

http://www.turbosquid.com/gmax
http://www.auran.com/trainz/creation/Trainz_Asset_Creation_Studio.zip
http://www.gimp.org/

Good luck and can't wait to see your freeware on the DLS!
 
norfolksouthern37 said:
............

no its isnt cheap, but nobody said it was, and nobody should be held responsible if you cant play. its tough, but thats life. what is it with you types that think everything should be made equal just so you can afford to play?

..............
.
Click to expand...

I'll but a couple from you just because you had the ..... to type this. :clap: :clap:

It's always been this way , you've seen it and so have I " oh noessss ., I can't afford it " ,, "Oh noesss my pc can't run that " .. and 100% of the reason I'll never release a single quad for this game or help Auran. Worse is the fact that at least twice , that I can recall , Auran have used the excuse that many of their poor customers have low spec machines and shallow pockets for not improving the game further than we have now ... I'd search the dev to find this reference , but that ain't worth my effort either .

Sci
 
norfolksouthern37 said:
please correct me if i misinterpret you.

no its isnt cheap, but nobody said it was, and nobody should be held responsible if you cant play. its tough, but thats life. what is it with you types that think everything should be made equal just so you can afford to play? this causes quality to drop significantly, and just the types of things that start threads like this with complaints. youd complain one way or the other. if you really want to buy some item, be it for trainz or railsim, then save that little bit youd otherwise spend until you have enough. i just recently started a new collection of model trains, in 1:29 scale. the BIG ones. i spent $600 or more on just one loco and 3 cars, and i cant wait to save some more money and get more. reason i tell you this, is when i was younger i always wanted them, and never could afford it. so i just had to wait until i could. simple.

someone emailed me yesterday regarding my site, and said more people would download if everything were free... well yea, they would, more people would download, but i would also do a lot less, and it would not be near as good. thats 100% guaranteed. the same goes for these companies making the games.

i also agree that we should probably move ahead with a TRS that only uses native mode content, and weed out the pile of junk known as the DLS.

just mho.
Click to expand...
I suppose you would like to see Trainz to become like Rail Jerks with thousands of people buying your miserable offering, and I suppose you would deem it quite reasonable to put the price up by about 60% or more, in the true blue style of making the rich even richer and the poor, poorer.

Just my honest opinion.....<-----Oh look real words not the SA stuff.
 
j_maybury said:
I suppose you would like to see Trainz to become like Rail Jerks with thousands of people buying your miserable offering, and I suppose you would deem it quite reasonable to put the price up by about 60% or more, in the true blue style of making the rich even richer and the poor, poorer.

Just my honest opinion.....<-----Oh look real words not the SA stuff.
Click to expand...


If you cannot afford to pay for someone else time and effort than get off your *** and create your own content. It costs nothing but your time to learn and create your own content so go do it and shut up about other people charging for the assets they create.
 
I miss one sentence in the discussion. When there is no demand for an item/product the price will drop ... even for this socialist that is still a truth. When you don't liker the price of a product ... don't buy it ... when enough people do the same ... the price will drop or the producer will run out of business. ( note to economists: I know this a very basic example of free market economy )
 
johnwhelan said:
Not all payware is high quality, not all freeware is low quality and many freeware items have a lot more time, effort and expertise put into them than some payware items. I have noticed that many Americans find this difficult to accept, they seem to think if you don't pay for something it must be rubbish.

Cheerio John
Click to expand...

not really, i happen to do both freeware and payware, and i put at least equal amount of time and effort into the freeware just to show that im not trying to favor anyone. sure sometimes that isnt practical, but at least i try. just trying to give a little back thats all.

j_maybury said:
I suppose you would like to see Trainz to become like Rail Jerks with thousands of people buying your miserable offering, and I suppose you would deem it quite reasonable to put the price up by about 60% or more, in the true blue style of making the rich even richer and the poor, poorer.

Just my honest opinion.....<-----Oh look real words not the SA stuff.
Click to expand...

so i guess i did not misinterpret what you were saying. i am sorry if you cannot afford to get payware. im really sorry, but its not my problem or the problem of anyone else. i did not say i wanted trainz to become like Railworks at all, i was just stating my opinion. it is clear that you are one of those who thinks everything in life should be equal for all. that is a pretty sad state, and just is not how things work. again, i am sorry, but you are wishing for a fantasy to come true. also sorry to see you dislike shorthand.

ttyl. :hehe:
 
crohakon said:
If you cannot afford to pay for someone else time and effort than get off your *** and create your own content. It costs nothing but your time to learn and create your own content so go do it and shut up about other people charging for the assets they create.
Click to expand...

Do you think for one moment I have time to do all that, Trainz is just a game not a way of life, get over it! And as for paying for content, I already have done, so let drop the miser crap can we. The point of the matter is charging far too much for just one item.
 
A rare thing!
A short post from me!

Why anyone would ever buy Payware other than locos or wagons/carriages is beyond me.

Want a route...build one.
Want scenery...an unbelievable amount in TS2010 and even more on the DS.

Done!
 
Originally Posted by johnwhelan
Not all payware is high quality, not all freeware is low quality and many freeware items have a lot more time, effort and expertise put into them than some payware items. I have noticed that many Americans find this difficult to accept, they seem to think if you don't pay for something it must be rubbish.

Cheerio John

norfolksouthern37 said:
not really, i happen to do both freeware and payware, and i put at least equal amount of time and effort into the freeware just to show that im not trying to favor anyone. sure sometimes that isnt practical, but at least i try. just trying to give a little back thats all.
Click to expand...

I was comparing payware and freeware in general not specifically referring to your models. I have purchased some payware in the past and found it was not to the standard I would expect even from the DLS.

On the freeware side have you looked at Ocemy's work? There are some other very good modelers creating freeware to an excellent standard.

Cheerio John
 
j_maybury said:
Do you think for one moment I have time to do all that, Trainz is just a game not a way of life, get over it! And as for paying for content, I already have done, so let drop the miser crap can we. The point of the matter is charging far too much for just one item.
Click to expand...

So you admit that you don't "have time to do all that" but you think others should subsidize their time for you? You complain about the price of payware but refuse to give your time to make content. :hehe:

I think until you can create an asset of compareable quality to average payware assets you should in no way demand other people to lower prices for you. Besides, the prices are already low. Anything under $20.00 is cheap in this hobby.


Physical HO:
http://www.atlastrainman.com/HOLoco/tmhogp39-2ph2.htm

Digital Trainz:
http://rrmods.com/ploco39.shtml
 
Oh gawd not this load of crappy palava again...

All the inconsiderate little idiots (and no I'm not saying all of you, but I know you know who they are) should be damned well hung for this crap!
Basically:
If you want to make lots of people happy by providing them free content up to very good standards (for example, TSM Teams's VL10 or Ocemy's stuff) then go freeware, and give up your time and perhaps a few quid to make people smile and say thanks to you, and tell you how awesome they think you are and how awesome your model is.
If you want to disappoint one or two people who perhaps can't buy payware for one reason or another, and get few sales which could be very small anyway, and may even leave you off worse than you started, go payware.

And NO I am CERTAINLY NOT biased here, although I do like freeware and have more freeware than payware (by a long way), there are some very well esteemed payware creators here (e.g. ElDavo from whom I will be buying £31 of very soon :Y:) as well.
 
i wouldn't go bashing payware though as some have done in this thread. there are many people who are perfectly happy getting what they pay for. and they FAR outnumber those here who seem to have a problem with it. the fact is that those people think that everyone else shares their opinion, and they don't. its just something i have learned to accept; people will complain about these things and eventually stop, because they will realize it does no good.

thats just fine by me!

as for free stuff, there is plenty of it. and this should leave everyone feeling satisfied. so i don't see the problem except for some minor bellyaching from a few.

lets just have fun - its a game after all.
 
norfolksouthern37 said:
i wouldn't go bashing payware though as some have done in this thread. there are many people who are perfectly happy getting what they pay for.
Click to expand...
Indeed there are, like me! There are many fine payware creators out there. Some get hundreds of visitors to their site every DAY! But yes, I know we all agree that some charge for their items, and some of them aren't worth charging for.
AFAIC, I think freeware is the way ahead, perhaps with most payware being done by Auran and the few independant producers who do their worth. Freeware is way more popular and it would take some sort of complete money turnaround (sort of like what's happened to me, but for the rest of the world too! :hehe: ) for payware to be more popular.
 
Funny, I have quite a bit of fine content from NS37 that didn't cost me a dime. A lot of it is his older freeware stuff, but looks excellent to me, right up there with what I've seen from the payware . In my situation I can't swing his payware stuff at the moment but I'll buy that before wasting money on another version of Trainz. Until then I have some VERY fine freeware he put out to keep me happy.

This not only applies to NS37 but several other creators as well, I'm just using him as an example. Who you going to target next, Yankvis? You people will gladly pay top dollar for a crap program and look down at those creating because they want to charge a minimal fee for their time to improve it. Not to mention all the complaints about "faulty" content because someone decided to raise the "error" checking bar. Next time you go to the DLS or use all that built in content you should remember WHO actually put it there. Sure wasn't who sold you the program to begin with, they don't have a dog in the fight but are still getting paid for it.

Dave....
 
Who's trying to, effectively SHUN NS37?
Don't look at me, because if you are, I suggest you re-read my post.
And Jankvis is one of the best scenery creators, if not the best we have here! That's damned unquestionable that his payware is worth every penny!
 
We each have our own talent and only a small percentage of us are talented in building, or painting. It's simply not acceptable to admonish everyone with the old "If you want something made, then build it yourself" routine. It's just not feasible that everyone who owns Trainz can be effective in GMax or Blender.

It is true, however, that if you want something made, and you can't or don't want to make it yourself, then you are at the mercies of those who can or will. If you have to pay for it, you should be over joyed for the opportunity! If it's free then you are doubly blessed.
 
I wasn't pointing out anyone at all and just used NS37 as an example. With all the complaints lately it seems most anger is miss directed. A lot of shots get taken at the content being faulty and the blame filters down to the creators. Now these forums have turned into a bunch of in fighting.

Auran's scheme has always been relying on third party to give them new content. In the case of the new releases they seem to have bitten the hand that feeds them. A lot of people take the DLS for granted and forget who actually built it, Auran included. Very little of the built in content in each new version of Trainz comes from Auran themselves.

A company reaping profits from freely given content needs to re-examine their latest practices. They threw a new sim out and expected the users to create everything it needs for them. And, from what I can tell, little guidance. Not a very smart move at all. They also threw it out knowing some content will not be compatible with no way for the average user to fix it. Again, not very smart.

To put it all politely a pretty smug attitude from a company towards the creators and users alike. Now a usually cordial and nice bunch of people in a forum have turned into a divided bunch taking pot shots or blaming everyone else but the instigators of this mess.

The next time I see a reference to how contributers have been doing it wrong all along I swear I'm going to scream. A greedy company allowed it to bolster sales and profit and continue to allow it by forcing it to work as long as it is packed into their JA file. The only ones forced to adhere to their new standards are the contributors so they can rip them off and shove that content into the next version.

As far as payware my position stands. I have no problem paying someone for their time and effort. Its up to me to purchase or not.

Dave......
 
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