I Absolutley Hate Speed Trees!

[WindWalkr]

Hi Chris: I have to take issue with the above comment and would question the definition of "inappropriate".

In the context of trees, any billboard tree that is particularly visible on a route is considered inappropriate.

We don't think billboard trees are very realistic. Yes, this is a subjective decision, but it's one that we've established as company policy because we feel that the majority of our customers agree.

Yes, from the right angle, a billboard tree can look photorealistic. This can be great for screenshots. From many other angles, the same tree will look average to horrible. As much as we like to see great screenshots from Trainz, we aren't making a screenshot simulator. We care about what the trees look like when you're actually playing the game, and we believe that SpeedTree wins that comparison hands down. Decent-looking billboard trees also require alpha blending, which is taxing on performance and prevents the use of a lot of modern graphics techniques.

chris

 

[psferg]

Will this feature become available as an update for '09?

 

[sawyer811]

It worked in the sense they showed up. But it was a disaster in appearance.:hehe:

yeah, you kinda have to build the route with the idea of using them from the get-go. you have to build with how they look in mind. Then again, i find that if you start off with a certain look in mind, then lose a big part of that look, nothing really seems to fill the void. Personally, i love them, they don't have as many types, but they look amazing.

 

[Driver_Col]

From many other angles, the same tree will look average to horrible.
chris

Hi Chris - With the greatest respect, you cannot have looked at the trees I specifically noted and used in my routes. Your response therefore is extremely disappointing as it displays a lack of interest (could not be bothered to check them out). I would suggest that you take the trouble to download my Milbourne James Early BR route (e.g.) into TC3 and take a drive into the countryside. You will see quite effective hedgerows and wooded areas none of which looks "average to horrible" as the train passes.
Colin.

 

[mathiasw]

Yes but that is just the thing, do I really want to have to direct 50000 people to a website to download some trees, or force them to download a few trees each an upwards of 6MBs? Yes 3rd party stuff is better in appearance, but why can't Auran fix the built in stuff to make life a little easier? I would use the built in trainz for the sake of saving myself a headache, but the pine cones the size of a car ruins the feel.


I am not really enjoying the 3rd party trees is the thing. They look nice, but getting them is another story. Most are on the DLS yes, however if someone downloads a route I made they must download about 10 trees each weighing in about 6MBs each, plus all the other content that needs to go along with the route.

But that's neither here nor there. But the main problem is why does each version come out with the small fixes that should've been applied to the numerous patches for the previous version. I.E. the trees are "normal" as far as scale goes in TS12 but still the same built in trees in TS10 are massive in scale, and makes the trains look like they are N scale running with G scale trees.

Small fixes such as that with the tree scale issue should be applied to the older(supported) versions, any new features etc should be added to the new release(not asking for the world here) As I am not saying new features should be added to the older supported releases. All I am asking is to simply fix the small little things that have no bearing on the next release, just to make that version at least able to be shown.

I have to agree with Gandalf. I like the look of SpeedTrees. Some trees is very good looking - look at McGuirels and Jankvis creations.
The problem is that McGuirels are mostly payware and Jankvis SpeedTrees isn't on the DLS.

So in my humble opinion the problem with SpeedTrees is the lack of them! We need more SpeedTrees on the DLS. I hope that Auran adds more tree there. You simply can't build a realistic forest (at least not a European pine forest) with the current trees since there is only a few speedtrees that is native European pine trees. It doesn't look realistic if all trees is of one spieces - that looks like a plantation.

When it comes to performace so does I think that SpeedTrees does rather good. The line I am building has very many trees and it works with good framerate with SpeedTrees. What really kills framerate is for instance old type of spline objects.

 

[WindWalkr]

Hi Chris - With the greatest respect, you cannot have looked at the trees I specifically noted and used in my routes. Your response therefore is extremely disappointing as it displays a lack of interest (could not be bothered to check them out). I would suggest that you take the trouble to download my Milbourne James Early BR route (e.g.) into TC3 and take a drive into the countryside. You will see quite effective hedgerows and wooded areas none of which looks "average to horrible" as the train passes.

It's nothing personal. You're missing my point here. We provide content suitable for the built-in routes.

If you are building your own route, you will need to vet the replacements and consider making alternative replacements. This is part of the process of moving to a new version of Trainz. We've provided tools to make this reasonably straight-forward. You just need to choose the trees.

Also, you should be aware that SpeedTree does not support spline assets. I'm not sure what you're referring to by "hedgerows", but if you're referring to a spline asset then you're not talking about SpeedTree.

kind regards,

chris

 

[Driver_Col]

It's nothing personal. You're missing my point here. We provide content suitable for the built-in routes.

If you are building your own route, you will need to vet the replacements and consider making alternative replacements. This is part of the process of moving to a new version of Trainz. We've provided tools to make this reasonably straight-forward. You just need to choose the trees.

Also, you should be aware that SpeedTree does not support spline assets. I'm not sure what you're referring to by "hedgerows", but if you're referring to a spline asset then you're not talking about SpeedTree.

kind regards,

chris

My issue is with "appropriateness". I totally agree that trees created on multiple 2-dimensional planes are not good ....... but the trees I use (tree02, tree03 & tree04) do not appear to be such creations. They make very good trackside hedgerows by simply random spacing along a fence line and then lowering in varying degrees. No splines. I can only repeat "look at one of my recent routes" to see that the removal of these trees because of "appropriateness" was misguided.

Regards. Colin.

 

[Snowhill]

I have a problem with speedtrees. They appear in surveyor but after placing half a dozen, clicking on a tree to add more it does not place it on the layout, nothing happens, also if I decide I want to move a tree, it refuses to move, and on top of that it won’t allow me to delete it.. so I’m stuck with a tree I can’t do anything with. One way I use trees is to create a small group then copy and paste, this does not seem to work with speedtrees, when pasting, the ground texture will appear but not the speedtree! Is this an improvement? I don’t think so.
Dennis

 

[Steamdemon]

If they won't budge, then they are not speed trees. They are Weed Trees!

 

[Amtrakid17]

Alright guys i know theres a huge debate here but can some one help me?!?!?!?!?!

 

[sparky15]

Have you tried the replace asset thing yet? I haven't tried using older trees in 12 yet, the ones that are in their look horrible.

As for the 532 kuids, I believe they were built in to TS2012. I ran into those missing when I put EK3 into 2009 SP4. They supposedly are putting some of that content on the DLS to make routes compatible in TS12. I put EK3 into 12 last night and used the DLS to download some missing assets, now those 523 kuids are no longer missing. I didn't pay much attention to which assets it was downloading so they my be up now.

Dave.........

 

[JCitron]

I have a problem with speedtrees. They appear in surveyor but after placing half a dozen, clicking on a tree to add more it does not place it on the layout, nothing happens, also if I decide I want to move a tree, it refuses to move, and on top of that it won’t allow me to delete it.. so I’m stuck with a tree I can’t do anything with. One way I use trees is to create a small group then copy and paste, this does not seem to work with speedtrees, when pasting, the ground texture will appear but not the speedtree! Is this an improvement? I don’t think so.
Dennis

Hi Dennis,

This isn't really the ST causing this. It's a bug with the way they're handled in Trainz. I think it's a memory thing where the Z-buffer seems to get overloaded and then they'll disappear in Surveyor. To remedy this problem, exit from Surveyor (Save first of course), and then go back in. They'll work again, and any "invisible" trees you place will reappear.

John

 

[schweitzerdude]

Size of speedtrees

I will be the first to agree that many of them are just too big - some seem way out of scale. But there are usually 3 or 4 varieites of the same tree species, so it's easy to find smaller ones to use for most situations.

But if your route includes old-growth forest as found on the west coast of North America, you are good to go.

 

[cascaderailroad]

You have to definately watch out that you don't poke one's eye out, on those jagged, pointy, spikey, "Speed Tweee's" ... we need animated "Speed Tumbleweeds:" for the Mojave route. :hehe:

 

[bassist118]

Then you have the Plantz that are nearly as tall as people... We have road signs over hear that read 'Heavy Plant Crossing' I think developers took that literally....

While on this subject (it may have been covered already) but is there anyway you can get Trainz to obsolete items of your choice so you can replace certain items on every installed route????

Btw the Trainzup speed treez are gorgeous and well worth downloading.

:Y::Y:

Andy

 

[Dep]

Quite an interesting thread. I was searching around for a possible relacement for SpeedTrees and came upon it in the search engine. Count me among those who are not happy with SpeedTrees as used in Trainz. I had to put that in italics because I got in a bit of trouble over on the Steam/Railworks forum when I stated that I hoped SpeedTrees wouldn't be implemented in their upcoming update. What I found out from many folks on that forum is that SpeedTrees has been implemented in MANY sims quite successfully. Trainz seems to be the only one where there are many problems and complaints. One thing I have noticed when SpeedTrees are installed, is the closer they are to the trackage, the bigger the framerate hit. Call in the MOW crews and saw down the trees back a ways from the tracks and framerates go back up. I hadn't noticed the size/scale issue, but after looking closely, that is true too. And what is totally bizarre is to see a tree with NO leaves on it whatsoever and branches waving madly in the wind. I guess those are the trees from the Herman Munster house that have been added for an eventual Halloween Route. :hehe:

I have temporarily solved the SpeedTrees/framerate problem by using the PO&E route. But I would still like to see an alternative to SpeedTrees. I have found many stationary trees that look downright amazing without the hurricane wind effect. I'm just not sure they are compatible with Trainz.

 

[hminky]

This is something I posted on another thread:

"Wild Bill NORTH" from DLS at "Norwest Junction" using the in game Sd40-2 in external view - latest version of FRAPS - Win7-64

TS2009/Steam version - 45856 - no speedtrees original billboards - compatibility mode - 103FPS

Ts2010 44088 - either mode it didn't matter - Speedtrees replacement by 2010 - 43 FPS

TS12 48249 - 23 FPS

Generally those were the FPS thorough out the route"

Apples to Apples, that is why I dislike Speedtrees and find TS12 underwelming

Harold

 

[privite]

Hi,

has anyone tryed Pofigs website, he has loads of excellent speedtrees for trainz. They are only around 10MB for a pack of a good 20, worth it as well. He has a thread where you can find a link to his site.

thanks

 

[Dep]

Hi,

has anyone tryed Pofigs website, he has loads of excellent speedtrees for trainz. They are only around 10MB for a pack of a good 20, worth it as well. He has a thread where you can find a link to his site.

thanks

Can you give a link?

 

[mrscsi]

Quite an interesting thread. I was searching around for a possible relacement for SpeedTrees and came upon it in the search engine. Count me among those who are not happy with SpeedTrees as used in Trainz. I had to put that in italics because I got in a bit of trouble over on the Steam/Railworks forum when I stated that I hoped SpeedTrees wouldn't be implemented in their upcoming update. What I found out from many folks on that forum is that SpeedTrees has been implemented in MANY sims quite successfully. Trainz seems to be the only one where there are many problems and complaints. One thing I have noticed when SpeedTrees are installed, is the closer they are to the trackage, the bigger the framerate hit. Call in the MOW crews and saw down the trees back a ways from the tracks and framerates go back up. I hadn't noticed the size/scale issue, but after looking closely, that is true too. And what is totally bizarre is to see a tree with NO leaves on it whatsoever and branches waving madly in the wind. I guess those are the trees from the Herman Munster house that have been added for an eventual Halloween Route. :hehe:

I have temporarily solved the SpeedTrees/framerate problem by using the PO&E route. But I would still like to see an alternative to SpeedTrees. I have found many stationary trees that look downright amazing without the hurricane wind effect. I'm just not sure they are compatible woith Trainz.

Why is it always speedtreez haters continually repeat the same false information? "without the hurricane wind effect." now my question would be are you genuinely ignorant of the fact that you can set windspeed or are you intentionally being misleading?

Everything that you're attributing to speedtreez regarding frame rates unfortunately is a result of your system or a mismatch in hardware. If it weren't then everybody 100% across-the-board would have the same problem with speedtreez which we don't.

You guys seem to just absolutely hate speedtreez and that is your right, but to claim this or that instead of being honest and saying "I don't have enough computer to run them properly" is just poisoning the minds of people who've never seen a speedtree and they read your crap and believe it.

I just think you need to do a little inward reflection, if you think speedtreez are the root of all evil, put together a 60 baseboard map with nothing on it except the track going in a oval, then you hit control alt shift P and let it build some mountains and let it plant a forest of speedtreez.

Then put on the most extensive locomotive and rolling stock you have and go around the map. I'll bet you'll be close to 30 frames per second :hehe:with speedtreez as far as the eye could see…

I know I can do it, because I've done it…

Now of course you're going to cry foul and say there's nothing else on the map, yeah you're right. Because TS12 like every version before it is at the mercy of content some of which is so wildly inefficient it brings Trainz to its knees.

Do you know that there are textures out there that can take 20% off your frame rate? Just plain ground textures, not to mention splines why aren't you writing volumes about those?