I Absolutley Hate Speed Trees!

[Amtrakid17]

Hi,
So I have this route with built in trees in ts2009 which worked prefectly fine until I got Ts2012... The trees changed and just happily "updated" themselves without me knowing and now will not work in ts2009... Can anyone help me out because personally I think speed trees are terrible, take up to much cpu, and really aren't that detailed compared to others content creators have made... Just saying i hate speed trees...
Thankyou

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Im missing these assets.

 

[sparky15]

Welcome to the club.
Looks like SpeeTree is here to stay. Any alternative has been obsoleted and replaced by the publisher. Trees have been a sticking point and a solution has been reached, obsolete.

Dave........

 

[schweitzerdude]

Re speedtrees

I imported a route from TC1&2 into TS2010 and that version did not automatically convert my trees to speedtrees. But I asked the question as to whether to convert my route to speedtrees and there was a consensus of experienced users that speedtrees were a performance plus, not a minus. So it will be interesting to see what comments you get re "they use too much CPU"

Using the asset replace function, I replaced all my trees to about a dozen different varieities of speedtrees and have not seen any performance hit. Search my username to see the full discussion titled "to speedtree or not to speedtree - that is the question." that went on a couple of weeks ago.

Plus I think they look better. Just my 2 cents.

 

[sparky15]

Try it with TS12 and get back to us.
You like SpeedTree, enjoy. I don't. Even IF they performed better.
Funny how a certain creator's content was obsoleted and replaced. They needed kuid 71619?
Call it what it is. If you like SpeedTree, you should be able to use them. Those who don't shouldn't be forced to abandon what we like through being obsoleted through the program. Looks like a "glitch" to take out a certain creator.

Dave.......

 

[WindWalkr]

Looks like a "glitch" to take out a certain creator.

Hardly. We ensure that the vast majority of built-in trees are SpeedTrees. This is neither limited to a single content creator, nor is it a glitch.

Where a content creator involved in a particular version of Trainz submits a route which contains inappropriate older content, we replace or update that content. This isn't limited to trees by a long shot, but trees are the most visible example both because there are typically a lot of different types in any given route and because the SpeedTree visuals tend to look quite different from the billboard visuals.

We're quite aware that some users object to the SpeedTrees, however we're happy with both the visual result and with the level of positive feedback from our customer-base. SpeedTrees are not perfect, and we do continue to improve on them and increase the available range of trees, but they're a lot better than billboard trees in the areas that matter to us.

kind regards,

chris

 

[sparky15]

Then why not let the end user choose what he wants to use in game?

My personally built routes are not built in or on the DLS. I'm not asking you to replace anything. I would like your program, which I purchased, to respect my choice of content. Give me back the ability to use older content through compatibility mode. I'll make the choice to upgrade hardware if needed to give me the visuals I want or suffer through performance issues.

Again, I purchased the program and would like to continue to support your company. What you have done with some favorite content is a move by you to steer us to what you believe we want. Pursue SpeedTree if you like, some of us don't care for them at this time. If not for the life cycle policy, it wouldn't be an issue. You initiated that policy and what you consider appropriate content.

As a customer, I would like to see the ability to choose what I see as appropriate. Include what you like in the box. Give me the ability to download and use what I prefer, even if it means so called performance hits in compatibility mode.

Do what you like with built in content. Don't take away my ability to choose what I wish to use third party.

Just a paying customer.

Dave.......

 

[WindWalkr]

Then why not let the end user choose what he wants to use in game?

Because the tech and art driving the two types of trees is quite different, and we don't want to waste time and effort promoting two competing systems when one is (for our purposes) clearly superior.

It gives a better result for everyone if people share a common set of content and make that content work as well as possible. It hurts everyone if we all go off doing incompatible things and nobody can share the results.

Supporting legacy technologies means both additional direct cost to us, and also means that our users end up with a very fragmented set of content to play with. We'd much rather a more robust and quality set of content, even if that set is slightly smaller than it might be otherwise.

To keep things in perspective, we're not taking away anybody's ability to use any of the existing content as it was originally intended- if you've got TRS2004 and are using content made for TRS2004, I will guarantee you that you won't see any Speed Trees.

What we're saying is that for TS2010 onwards, Speed Tree is the way to go.

kind regards,

chris

 

[Gandalf0444]

What we're saying is that for TS2010 onwards, Speed Tree is the way to go.

kind regards,

chris

Perhaps so but I still think there are slight scaling issues with the trees in TS2010. I.E. Pine cones the size of a small car hanging from a tree that looks like it has been growing since the beginning of time before any other life was on earth.
TS12 fixed that mostly, any hope of that getting fixed in TS10 or are we going to be left out in the breeze and made to download 3rd party speedtrees?

 

[Forest_Runner]

any hope of that getting fixed in TS10 or are we going to be left out in the breeze and made to download 3rd party speedtrees?

Considering the 3rd party stuff is better in both appearance and frame rate performance... it's a completely viable concept

 

[WindWalkr]

TS12 fixed that mostly, any hope of that getting fixed in TS10 or are we going to be left out in the breeze and made to download 3rd party speedtrees?

I can't really say what the future might hold in terms of patches. I can say that any future TS2010 patch we might release is very unlikely to support compatibility mode (TS2010 SP3 was the last Trainz version to support it.)

Certainly if you are enjoying some of the 3rd-party SpeedTrees, then I'd encourage you continue along that path.

cheers,

chris

 

[Gandalf0444]

Considering the 3rd party stuff is better in both appearance and frame rate performance... it's a completely viable concept

Yes but that is just the thing, do I really want to have to direct 50000 people to a website to download some trees, or force them to download a few trees each an upwards of 6MBs? Yes 3rd party stuff is better in appearance, but why can't Auran fix the built in stuff to make life a little easier? I would use the built in trainz for the sake of saving myself a headache, but the pine cones the size of a car ruins the feel.

I can't really say what the future might hold in terms of patches. I can say that any future TS2010 patch we might release is very unlikely to support compatibility mode (TS2010 SP3 was the last Trainz version to support it.)

Certainly if you are enjoying some of the 3rd-party SpeedTrees, then I'd encourage you continue along that path.

cheers,

chris

I am not really enjoying the 3rd party trees is the thing. They look nice, but getting them is another story. Most are on the DLS yes, however if someone downloads a route I made they must download about 10 trees each weighing in about 6MBs each, plus all the other content that needs to go along with the route.

But that's neither here nor there. But the main problem is why does each version come out with the small fixes that should've been applied to the numerous patches for the previous version. I.E. the trees are "normal" as far as scale goes in TS12 but still the same built in trees in TS10 are massive in scale, and makes the trains look like they are N scale running with G scale trees.

Small fixes such as that with the tree scale issue should be applied to the older(supported) versions, any new features etc should be added to the new release(not asking for the world here) As I am not saying new features should be added to the older supported releases. All I am asking is to simply fix the small little things that have no bearing on the next release, just to make that version at least able to be shown.

 

[sawyer811]

Well, although i understand and accept the fact that we are staying with SpeedTrees, I still have to say i'm not fond of them. I never noticed the size issue until someone mentioned it to me, but personally, they don't fit well with the kind of layouts i like to build. Not in a "type" sense, there's many to choose from, but their dark, almost depressing colors don't mix with the warm textures and grasses i like to use to brighten up my routes, even though i go for a toned down version of the run-down, grimy, depression-era look that the Franklin and South Manchester Model railroad made famous (or at least that's what i tell myself:hehe: ). I still don't know where on earth trees with grey bark and dark black/green leaves grow. We call those dead trees around here. Also, they suck the life out of my CPU, and although routes completely detailed with them look amazing, i can never run them 'cause there a lag-fest.

all that aside though, i do have to admit i love the way they sway like they're blowing in the wind. even though i don't exclusively use them, i do usually "seed" my layouts with a few dozen speed trees just for the movement. however, when it comes to trees, I always use Trunda's. detailed, yet simple six-paneled low CPU-draw trees, and error free to boot! (no offense auran, it's a personal taste thing)

 

[Gandalf0444]

all that aside though, i do have to admit i love the way they sway like they're blowing in the wind. even though i don't exclusively use them, i do usually "seed" my layouts with a few dozen speed trees just for the movement. however, when it comes to trees, I always use Trunda's. detailed, yet simple six-paneled low CPU-draw trees, and error free to boot! (no offense auran, it's a personal taste thing)

I tried switching my routes over to the speedtree from Trundra's wonderful trees. Man I am glad I kept a backup:hehe:
Went right back to building routes with what I knew looked good and got better performance for forested areas.

 

[sparky15]

I just want the ability to choose what content I prefer back.

 

[sawyer811]

I tried switching my routes over to the speedtree from Trundra's wonderful trees. Man I am glad I kept a backup:hehe:
Went right back to building routes with what I knew looked good and got better performance for forested areas.

you mean it didn't work?

 

[Gandalf0444]

you mean it didn't work?

It worked in the sense they showed up. But it was a disaster in appearance.:hehe:

 

[Steamdemon]

Speed trees are the illegal aliens, not phil colins. and actually, one of them grew on track and they are blocking the path... Someone got a chainsaw?

...on second thoughts, I could ram it at high speed.

 

[Amtrakid17]

I agree completley with sparky. I pretty much lost all the trees in my route because some how the speed trees got into my ts2009 cmp and now all the trees are faulty... Can anyone please help me bcause my route looks retarded without trees...

 

[Driver_Col]

Where a content creator involved in a particular version of Trainz submits a route which contains inappropriate older content, we replace or update that content.

chris

Hi Chris: I have to take issue with the above comment and would question the definition of "inappropriate". I have a number of TC3 routes on DLS (Gwladys Ddu, Milbourne James, Leeds to Sheffield) all of which use built in trees -1:560, 562 & 563. If you care to look at any one of those routes, you will find that 99.9% of the "foliage" is a mixture of those 3 trees and, I should add, the overall effect of them has generated many compliments. Converting a TC3 Route to TS2009 and TS2010 proved ludicrous as those 3 trees converted to something quite dismal if ones focus is on realism. (I have not bought TS2012 for probably obvious reasons)

I can understand that promoting and developing Trainz as a game (at the expense of realism) is probably a reasonable business decision, but surely you can be more selective on what is obsoleted..... and what it is replaced with.

In summary, it would appear that "you guys" obsoleted (determined "inappropriate") perfectly good and very effective trees.

Regards. Colin (Driver_Col 149790)

 

[JCitron]

I have to agree with Schweizerdude. Speed Trees do work much better. My only itch I have with them is their size. Overall they're way too big and horsey. How many huge oak and maple trees do you see? The big trees are usually found in towns and on estates where the old growth trees are located.

Where I live, there are many smaller trees, more like the size of the old flip boards we used to use. This is because much of the area used to farmland that has become meadow and young forests again as the farms closed and people moved away.

John