Grades

[crimsonsky]

What is the steepest Grade i can get away with? The Route i am designing has a mountain pass, I'm managed to stretch out the Track Quite a distance leading up to the Mountain pass, Working its way through canyons & around mountains and so on.. (no tunnels yet) .. The Track eventually makes it down to the Default Level in Surveyor.. But some of my Grades seem kind of off a little. Using the Gradients in Surveyor, what would be the steepest?

Ty

 

[gary6204]

i ussualy use 2-3% as my steep grade in surveyor. this would be like putting a 2 or 3 in that box

 

[BobCass]

crimsonsky: The steepest grade in Prototype is 6%(Saluda Hill)..That the steepest grade I use also..When you doing a grade set your grade in the window 0.00-6.00%, the grade of your choice(1.00-2.00-3.00% etc..)..Always remember to click on your choice(gradient button) then click behind or to the right of the circle to set the gradient..(example, 0=click======0)..

 

[cascaderailroad]

Most modern mainlines are 2%, or less, with @ 250m radius (@ 600' radius)

 

[bendorsey]

The Uintah RR (3 ft ga) had 7.5% grades and 66 degree curves (thats less the 18 inch radius in HO Scale).

Ben

 

[crimsonsky]

i should take a picture of the grade i made, Can't remember the % but i think its well over 10... lol.. Thanks for all the help..

 

[cascaderailroad]

You're pushing it with 10%, you might need the rack & pinion track like that of the Mt Washington Cog Rwy if it is that steep,

Nothing but a shay, climax or other geared loco would go up really steep grades ... no SW, MP, GP, or SD would be able to handle it.

 

[Vern]

The Darjeeling Railway for Trainz got away with very steep grades, but uses very short trains and specialised motive power.

A year or two ago I tried to build the Flam branch in Norway which has extended gradients of 1 in 17 (or around 5.8%) but found it unuseable going downhill as the motive power and rolling stock started to run away before the brakes got ahold. I suspect the locos on the prototype have some form of either stepped braking or rapid release/apply system which is not really simulated in Trainz where there can be a few seconds lag between applying and lapping the brakes nor can you always finely regulate the pressure reduction.

So I would suggest no steeper than 4% (1 in 25) and ideally 2.5% (1 in 40) unless building a very specialised route.

 

[lewisner]

"So I would suggest no steeper than 4% (1 in 25) and ideally 2.5% (1 in 40) unless building a very specialised route."

There were a couple of sections of about 1 in 40 in my native North East the best known one being Seaton Bank on the Sunderland - Hartlepool via Wellfield line.I think that unless you had something like a Beyer Garratt up front that's about as much as you can get away with.

 

[HiBaller]

The Darjeeling Railway for Trainz got away with very steep grades, but uses very short trains and specialised motive power

The DHR for Trainz follows the exact grades that the real DHR uses. In some places, the grade gets up to 10 or 12% and in one spot is almost 14%, but as you say, this is with specialized motive power and consists of no more than three (very short) cars.

As an interesting side note the engine crew numbers about 7 or 8. Two of the crew are always sitting on the front running board with a barrel of sand between them. In very steep grades, their whole job is to flip sand down onto the rails. One sits atop the coal bin and whacks big pieces down into smaller pieces suitable for throwing into the firebox. I guess you could call this 'specialized' engines. :hehe:

A consist crewmember is the brakeman (or brakemen). They ride between the cars and stand on a long lever that applies the brakes to each car when going downhill.

It would have been a virtual hoot to be able to model these crewmembers into our version of the DHR, but the overhead would have been overwhelming.

Bill

 

[Xengeance]

It's kind of weird that the prototype strives to use as small a grade as possible, yet we rail enthusiasts will tend to gravitate towards using steep grades like moths to a porch light. But, meh, I suppose it's not like our railroads incur any construction costs.

Many modern railroads don't have more than a 3% grade on their mainline - with special exceptions given to very remote or hard-to-access areas that necessitate so simply due to a lack of an alternative route. If you plan on using lots of grades along your route, be sure to include some small 'helper-stations' just at the foot of some of the steeper grades. You can store some extra helper loco's for the sole purpose of giving some of the heavier trains a shove up the hill.

In some of the more extreme examples of railroads that use high grades, the boilers on the steam locomotives would be built tilting forward or backwards along the length of an engine, or vertically, as the steepness of the track would cause the steam and water inside a regular horizontal boiler to gather all at one end, which doesn't help the train any as the condensated water would not spread evenly over the fire tubes to heat properly.

Remember - the total hauling capacity of a Locomotive is halved at a 1% grade, so you'll theoretically need twice the muscle to move the same number of cars up such a grade.

 

[Vern]

Well the steepest main line grade in the UK is the famous Lickey Incline in Worcestershire - 1 in 37 for around two miles. Today's Cross Country Voyager DMU's with an engine under each car take it in their stride but there are still special instructions for HST's running OEO. A standard Class 66 loco (3300hp) can take around 900 tonnes unassisted but anything over that requires the train to take a banker on the rear at Bromsgrove.

The other issue with steep grades and heavy trains is whether the drawbar is strong enough to withstand the higher forces generated while traversing the incline.